178 Comments

1. Pajamas Media » Beck, Krauthammer and the Geert Wilders Perplex:

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Mar 10, 2010 - 10:36 pm 2. David W. Lincoln:

Roger, here is something about the same topic: http://www.reutrcohen.com/2010/03/geert-wilders-should-be-granted-fair.html

I hope that the quality of comments you receive
are edifying, for this is a vitally important issue.

Mar 10, 2010 - 10:40 pm 3. Blackthorne:

Thank-you for a fine piece on a subject which is discussed far too little, mostly for reasons of Political Correctness, as well as fear of becoming an object of hatred. Geert Wilders is on trial for stating the truth in a country where truth is now considered hate speech if it upsets the wrong group. To date, Mark Steyn has been the only prominent writer who has eloquently defended him on a regular basis,and he has good reason to, for he has been fighting his own free-speech battle in Canada, successfully, thank God! I’m glad to see you joining the fight.

Mar 10, 2010 - 11:02 pm 4. heathermc:

Roger, the future IS frightening: Islam has self confidence and is on the march through Europe and Indonesia and the cities in Canada. Our civilization has yet to face the FACT that there is a war on. Your Wretchard made exactly that point a few days ago. Wilder, and etc are early martyrs in this war.

Mar 10, 2010 - 11:32 pm 5. Carpenter:

Is it just my imagination or is Glenn Beck a Mowron?
Glenn Beck Geert Wilders is a fascist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i5VvLi1Bmo&feature=related

Ok now I know that GB usually says a ‘bunch of stuff’ that people want someone to say. And that he is very entertaining. I really liked him on Southpark when he covered the Smurfs thing… opps that was Cartman!

Glenn really needs to start thinking before he opens his trap. Maybe needs to be put in time out or something.

I wonder what Mark Levine thinks of all this

Mar 10, 2010 - 11:49 pm 6. eloh:

In my opinion, Wilders correct critizism of Islam aditionally targets the Politically correct MSM. For them, Islam serves as a Lackmustest in the public process of ‘Nazi Detection’; whereas for Wilders it serves … surprise, the same purpose.
Yet, there is a difference: he applies his test to the right people, the far left, antisemite, in bed with collectiv totaliarisme ‘msm-elites’ (sic!).

Mar 11, 2010 - 12:19 am 7. Dane:

I wish all the best for Mr. Wilders in his trial, for the same reasons I cannot bring myself to support his positions. ‘Hate speech’ restrictions on speech inherently prevent the exercise of free speech – but by the same token, attempts to ban a religion or religious text because it is ‘a political movement’ by nature is diametrically opposed to the exercise of freedom of religion.

Mar 11, 2010 - 12:33 am 8. Spinoneone:

I find it hard to believe that anyone who is not a Muslim can comment on the religion when that individual has not read Robert Spencer’s books on the subject. And, yes, without a root and branch reformation of Islam, a very doubtful premise, sometime during the next century or so we in the West will either convert to Islam peacefully or there will be an all out, no prisoners, war.

We get all wishywashy and goosebumpy over the PC idea that Islam is merely a religion. It most definitely is not just a religion. Far more that any Judeo-Christian belief it is a total life regulating system imposing both a personal code of conduct and a government. That government amounts to a theocratic, fascist regime. The personal code of conduct only applies to coreligionists; anyone else is fair game, any where, any time.

Wilders is correct; Beck is very far off base.

Mar 11, 2010 - 12:34 am 9. Patrtick Martin:

For a while I found Beck kind of interesting, working the angles in the style he uses to express a point, even though his points get lost at times.

Beck has now placed himself as a ‘has been’ in my books, the entire issue Wilders is going through in Holland is FREE SPEECH.

And the talking heads had better realize that, or hold their opinion to themselves!

I can understand well Beck getting fuzzed up and wrong on this issue – I’m bored with his chalkboard anyway, so not watching him any more isn’t a problem.

But Krauthammer expressing a similar sentiment towards Wilders is mind boggling for me.

We’ve had many in the media try to dress up Islam (the religion) as a ‘religion of peace’. And perhaps it is, I’m not the theology expert, for sure. But the bit of the Quaran I’ve read, and actions of Islamic Fundamentalists, show me a different picture.

Krauthammer and Beck owe Wilders a sincere apology!

Mar 11, 2010 - 12:35 am 10. kleinverzet:

Due to selective MSM reporting, the call for banning the Koran by Wilders is still being misconstrued and misunderstood.

Mr. Wilders did not, repeat: NOT, call for a blanket ban of the Koran. The issue he raised is rather more local and only valid for the Dutch situation.

In the Netherlands Mein Kampf is a banned book. It has been ever since the end of WW2. Whether or not that is a good thing (I don’t think so), that is how it is laid down in the laws of the Lowlands.

Wilders’ argument has been that given the similarities in language in both books, if Mein Kampf is banned lawfully, the Koran ought to be banned as well. In the Netherlands. He was arguing of equality before the law for both books.

It was a direct challenge to the political establishment. Unfortunately, MSM complicity with the current political elites ensured that this challenge backfired, as they started to report en masse that Wilders wanted to ban the Koran. That misconception is still with is, two years on.

It does say something about the intellectually lazy MSM reporting that two years after the fact this perception still needs correction. And that it takes lowly bloggers and commenters to do so.

Mar 11, 2010 - 1:33 am 11. Terry, Eilat - Israel:

You touch upon a most interesting point – you fear that Wilders is correct in his assessement of Islam. And, if Wilders is correct, this means that something must be done, it means actions must be taken. Politicians (and many others, including many pundits, so-called ”experts”, academics, & journalists) recoil from what for them is unthinkable, that we are really in a war with a totalitarian ideology that is disguised as religion & that we must take actions to defend ourselves. In other words, they are in denial.
Yet, all evidence demonstrates that Wilders is indeed correct.
As a matter of fact, it would be difficult to point to any evidence that Wilders is not correct
Quite correctly, Wilders focuses on the IDEOLOGY – there is no ”moderate” Islam because Islam the ideology is not moderate, plain old mainstream Islam as represented in the Qur’an, the Hadith, the Shari’a Law, the teaching of 1400 years of Muslim scholars, the preaching of Imams in thousands of mosques, & the reality of life in countries dominated by Islam as well as the actions of such groups as Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, the Taliban, the current Iranian regime, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc. is an extremist totalitarian political ideology.

Mar 11, 2010 - 1:51 am 12. Anthony:

While I would not characterize Mr. Wilders as an extremist, I find your article refreshingly well put in contrast to so much dorky commentary liks GB’s.
Mr Wilders’ uncompromising outspokenness is sparking a healthy debate about an ideology that cannot safely be accommodated where democracy and freedom of expression are valued. While the vast majority of Muslims in the west abide by the laws of the land, there are too few here and in Islamic countries who dare to stand up to fundamentalist bullies. Before WWII, most Germans and Japanese were also model citizens, unaccustomed to questioning authority. Therefore, the behaviour of most Muslims has no bearing on the danger the Islamic ideology presents to us.

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:00 am 13. Jay Getty:

Clarity: Islime is at war with the west to end free speech to criticize Islime!

Islime leaders do not think Islime can survive against western culture! So we are under perpetual attack: by Islime! However:

Bin Laden (Achmatjihad Iran) is a mercenary marketing director for various government own weapons manufacturers parading as a “religious person” which he, by “English” definition, could not be: no definition of “religious” could include flying planes into buildings…

…and by the way, believe it, do not believe it, my charactization of Ben Laden fits better than his own and mine makes it hard for him to recruit…we do his work by accepting he is religious…is that clear?

If Israel, G-d forbid goes, these terrorist will tear America down in no time.

It is correct that we do not need invading armies to woop their sorry a…;

We start winning by not buying any mid east oil and embargo all food, oil, and steel to/from Iran, Saudi, Syria et al (embargo by land, sea, and air: no phones, no lights, no internet)…Just like we did Japan in June 1940; not in your history book is it.

Domestically produced cellulose ethanol equals: full employment in the USA, balanced trade deficit, cut off of funding for terrorist; set the minimum price of fuel at the pump at $1.75/gal to keep monopoly OPEC from lowering the price long enough to rust out our stills.

I could convert the USA to cellulose ethanol in 18 months; WAR ENDS WE WIN!

(Did you, invalid objection, ethanol dissing Lilliputians add the BTUs for the war ships and dead Army men to the cost of crude?)

Nobel peace prize: Obama, sends 30,000 more army men to fight the religion of peace;

The nice “long lasting war and sell lots of weapons” (C1991 Getty on/referring to this war and delivered to every member of congress in 1991, yes I woke up early; you may still not get it)

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:16 am 14. Zaza:

I´m not a scholar on Islam, but i read the Koran and some of the Sunna in order to find out what makes them “tick”, and i think Wilders got it right. If you take sharia away, there´s very little left of Islam. The Koran consists of about 80% of Allah praising himself, 19% religious laws and very, very little in the way of mystical or philosophical teaching. I conclude that an Islam without Sharia, which includes the call to Jihad, will no longer be Islam, there will not be any islamic Theology left without Sharia. Therefore i believe Islam cannot be moderate, teachings and sermons in mosques will always be what we consider to be extreme because that is the heart of Islam. If you reform Islam it will stop being Islam and transform into something else like the Baha´i, which are considered Apostates (and therefore, under muslim law, shall be killed).

There are muslims that are good and moral people. In my experience these people usually are “cultural” muslims, i.E. muslims in name only. The more one studies islam and believes in its teachings the harder it becomes to be a moral person.

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:18 am 15. Michael (in England):

No book should be banned – and that includes Mein Kampf. We should use the weapons we have in the West. Critical analysis allied with humour!

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:39 am 16. bastiches:

I’d agree only because we in the US do not have to draw a fine distinction as Beck and others wish to do so. Wilders is not a US politician and he is not asking to become one.

There are greater, immediate threats to US security than whether or not Wilders wants the Koran banned in his country.

I hope he is able to lead the EU to a less-PC, cowed version of social-democracy, but I’m not hopeful. The EU, by and large, is a derelict polity. Only a kind God can help them now, not US intervention.

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:57 am 17. Snorri Godhi:

To understand Wilders, one should also understand the political situation in the Netherlands. Here is my way of looking at it. For over 30 years, politics was dominated by 3 parties: the Christian Democrats, Labour, and Liberals (sort of classical liberals): any government needed the support of 2 of those 3 parties.
It is easy to see that at least 1 of the 2 parties in government would still be in government after the next election. It follows that the 3 parties did not differ that much: they all had to get along together. (You could call it “tripartisanship”.)
On top of that, Dutch people tend to vote along tribal lines, ie for the same party as their parents. Not much incentive for a politician to listen to the voters when they are going to vote for you anyway: it is more important to get along with other politicians.
This arrangement (very comfortable for career politicians in the 3 main parties) was wrecked by Pim Fortuyn, who was as much against the political elite as he was against Islamization. But the political elite could not demonize Fortuyn for the real reason they hated him, so they demonized him for being against Islamization.
Remember that Fortuyn was not murdered by a Muslim: he was murdered by a “far-left” Dutchman. To put it bluntly, he was murdered by a useful idiot for the political elite. That is an unfair over-simplification, but it helps to get the picture.

Whether Fortuyn and Wilders are right or wrong about Islam, makes no difference to this story. Beck and especially Krauthammer should be careful not to become the useful idiots of the Dutch establishment.

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:12 am 18. Eric R.:

I suspect that Beck and Krauthammer are being asked to “toe the line” on Wilders because News Corp is now 8% owned by that Saudi prince, and they announced they are creating a big news center in Dubai.

News Corp’s employees can’t be praising those who attack an owner’s religion, now, can they?

Especially when it is a religion that silences and murders those who offend it.

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:24 am 19. Adina Kutnicki, Israel:

Watching FOX News, in particular Hannity and Beck, all the way from Israel, is usually the only sane part of the day for me in TV land.

HOWEVER, I almost lost my dinner when I watched Beck malign Wilders as a fascist – of all things.

While Beck masterfully exposed the communist, marxist, socialist monsters of history, deftly intertwining the same worrying signs emanating from the Obama adminstration, he was WAY off the mark in examining Wilder’s Islamic thesis.

Beck would do well to actually study Islam, in the same manner as he mastered other totalitarian ideologies. It is a point of FACT (many highly regarded Islamic scholars say as much) that there is NO such thing as ‘moderate’ Islam, a fairytale put forth by western apologists.

To call Wilders a fascist due to his realistic interpretation of Islam is to call the highest authorities in Islamic law fascists too.Their ideology is fascist, but their interpretations are not, they are authentic Islam! They freely admit-to those who care to listen-that jihad-holy war-is the highest pillar of Islam. That killing the infidel is the highest goal in Islam, and that subjugating the infidel is THE main mandate of Islam. At the end of this submission (Islam literally means submission) is the reinstatement of the Caliphate-by the sword.

Now, what part of Islamic doctrine does Beck NOT agree with? IF he wants a crash course in the ‘ways of Islam’, and their plans for the US/west, I can think of NO better book than ‘Muslim Mafia’ by Gaubatz and Sperry. He should imbibe EVERY page, EVERY word and then ask Wilders back for another ‘dialogue’.

The most disappointed and dangerous aspect of the confrontation between Beck & Wilders is where the evidence points us. That the Saudi slush fund of hush momey has COMPLETELY infiltrated Fox – via one of Abdullah’s cousins being their second ! largest shareholder- therefore, the last bastion of free flowing news is NOT so free anymore.

Beck, if your goal is to always tell the truth, you owe your loyal listeners an apology, as well as Wilders. They will forgive you, and be gratified that you not only studied up on authentic Islam, but told Murdoch you are not for sale.

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:35 am 20. tommy gunn:

Time to wake up America!!

I am glad you are writing about this. Sir Charles Krauthammer is usually so well packaged in his thinking that you risk alot by challenging him. Beck is a fool on complex issues like this not because he is not doing a good job on SOME things but like so many people with big egos after a while he thinks he knows EVERYTHING. Look at his sordid interview with Messa.

Mark Steyn is a consistent believer who is brilliant and credible about the Islamic challenge to the west. Anyone who thinks we are going to believe this PC crap in the face of overwhelming hard facts and evidence to the contrary believes in Man Mad Carbon causing global warming and the tooth fairy. The best quote from Wilders goes like this and I try to quote “while there may be moderate muslims, there is no moderate Islam as a relgion”. That is it folks. Sure you will get the spokesperson from CAIR who will tell you they want to live peacefully, then in the next minute they are sponsoring some Jihad spewing nut job Imam for a mosque in Dearborn.

It is time for the USA to stand up. It is time for Europeans to stand up too. Western culture will be overwhelmed if we don’t. That is not racist. It is the fact that we embrace freedom, free enterprise, women’s rights, freedom of religion, and all the other freedoms and benefits we enjoy today. Take a guess on what the Koran has to say about these freedoms. You have NONE!

Wake up call to Sir Charles and Beck. Time to get the facts. And yes for Beck first admit you have a problem.

Tommy Gunn

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:06 am 21. Myno:

Thank you for your reasoned thoughts. Many of us are thinking along these same lines.

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:10 am 22. Supreme Allied Commander:

10. Terry, Eilat – Israel:

well stated. it indeed is a scary scenario and one I think will play out as just such a thing ..why ..because everyone is ignoring that elephant in the room. Everyone has their heads firmly planted in the sand. and only Islam matches onward.

…at least you are in Eilat …one of the nicest places on the planet …for now.

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:12 am 23. Bruce from Amsterdam:

Roger,
Great article! Maybe you’ve heard that the cabinet fell recently and that elections will be necessary to get another government up and running. Wilders’ “trial” will probably not happen until after the elections – if at all. The case probably will be allowed simply to fade away, as you say. The less media attention he gets, the better, is the reasoning here. But he’s a brilliant publicist, a regular P.T. Barnum. When the British Home Secretary told him he wasn’t welcome, he immediately jumped on the first plane to London, and had a media circus there.
Dane: he’s not serious about banning the Koran; that’s simply a controversial position he’s taken to get the dialogue going about immigration. “Mein Kampf” is banned on grounds of ‘incitement to hate’ and Wilders simply points out that the Koran has plenty of the same kind of language. (For that matter, so does the Bible.)

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:20 am 24. Terry, Eilat - Israel:

#15 Supreme Allied Commander.

Indeed, Eilat is a very agreable place to live, as you say, for now.
But, before I made aliyah to Israel, I lived in an Arab/Muslim country.
Let’s just say I saw first-hand what Islam perpetrates on its victims, most of whom are themselves Muslim.
Defending Mr Wilders is most certainly not only about free speech, that being only one element. It is about fighting the scourge that is Islam. Islam must be defeated. We cannot hide behind rationalizations, white-washes, sugar-coated platitudes.
It is quite worrying when you see Islam gradually infiltrate into Western societies & most disconcerting to see how many Westerners enable that infiltration, for whatever reason.
It may be unpleasant to contemplate the idea of a multi-generational world conflict with a large & hostile Muslim world but I can assure you, the consequences of losing that conflict will be far more unpleasant.

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:35 am 25. David Thomson:

I am very confident that Glenn Beck will soon admit his mistake regarding Geert Wilders. He does a lot of studying and is not an ego tripping whack job. Beck is a work in progress and improving on a daily basis.

Mar 11, 2010 - 5:00 am 26. kent:

Roger

Excellent and very thoughtful piece. The type of vital, intelligent, and non-PC article that simply does not exist in the mainstream media.

Being conservative, and worried about the direction and speed with which we are drifting, I read a lot. I am familiar but in no way expert on the situation in Europe, and particularly in the Netherlands which has experienced the executions of Theo Van Gogh’s and Pim Fortuyn by Muslims motivated by the Koran. My sense is that Europe is the real battleground now and that we would be wise to listen, and not lecture people like Geert Wilders, who are on the front lines and who have experienced how Islam and Western traditions are colliding, mostly at the expense of Western values.

Glen Beck is a showman, not an intellectual. We would all be wise to enjoy his wisecracks, and occasional wisdom, for what it is – the intellectual expression of the business tactic – “Ready, Fire, Aim”. Enjoy his show, but do so without disengaging your own brain because Glenn is just as likely to drive the car off the cliff as to return you safely to your living room at the end of the show. Charles K is usually excellent, but he suffers from some form of academic hubris or arrogance that causes him to disparage those who have to do the dirty work of politics and war, when to defend these people would demean his stature (in his mind). His views on Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, and Geert are all of a similar academic disdain. Too bad he is not a bit more courageous on issues where the real leadership is being done by people without Ivy League degrees.

Anyway, thanks for the excellent piece. And thanks to Pajamas Media for excellent work day and day out. The White House and Congress should consider banning your site.

Mar 11, 2010 - 5:41 am 27. Sam Johnson:

Excellent essay. Wilders is a heroic figure who deserves our support. No doubt, Krauthammer would have denounced Churchill for referring to Germans as “the Hun”, when we know that not all Germans wanted to annihilate the Jews. Islam is a death cult, as well as a totalitarian ideology. As a psychoanalyst I’m reluctant to analyze Krauthammer, but not to analyze the mass appeal of a sado-masochistic perversion, dressed up as a ‘religion’. It validates acting on the murderous desires we all generally keep in the realm of unconscious-or conscious wishes.

Mar 11, 2010 - 5:51 am 28. Parabellum:

The people we call Islamists are merely ‘good’ Muslims. The people we call moderate Muslims are slacker Muslims, and both of these groups know this.

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:00 am 29. pelaut:

I’ve followed Wilders for years. He is a clear sighted Euro — and quite lonely. Wilders is right.
I follow Krauthammer daily. He’s our best commentator, and wrong on this.
CK is lost in the arbitrage between “Islam” and “Islamist”.
Upate yourself from Hayek’s wonderfully clear writings on Leftism/Fascism of the 40’s with a book by Mark Steyn — out a couple of years now — which makes a clear and frightening case on the demographics: “America Alone”.

They’re no longer at the Gates of Vienna, the New Caliphate is all around us and we are losing.

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:02 am 30. Brownie M.:

Thank you, thank you for addressing what I believe to be one of the most egregiously wrong-headed position that Glenn Beck and others on FOX news have ever taken. I was shocked when Beck accused Geert Wilders, a man I believe to be one of the bravest men on the planet, of being a fascist. Followed pretty quickly by what Krauthammer said, then Bill Kristol calling him a demagogue and reporter Greg Palkot giving one of the most scathing, biased reports about Wilders rounded off with an ugly, frightening looking photo of Wilders. It’s terrible and is just one more thing to be vigilant about.

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:14 am 31. Thomas_L.....:

The question becomes, how do we accomplish or encourage a reformation or enlightment in Islam that will eliminate or subdue radical Islamists? Not by ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away, that’s for sure.

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:34 am 32. JHM dba "Dogge, R. L.":

Cheer up, Dr. Bones! The Kiddie Selfservative Movement and its patron neoterics (like the present scribbler) only despise informed opinion when that plan happens to serve the Party Paymasters or, at the margins, of their own highly esteemed and best belovèd neoselves.

On other occasions, the student can encounter strange heretical neobarkin’s like

“Beck’s criticism of Wilders is pretty dismissible since the populist TV commentator does not appear particularly versed in European affairs.”

That will, of course, be Neocomrade G. Beck, slave to Neocomrade Lord Murdoch, friend to Congressman Massa and to the 29th of New York, and–for all one knows for sure to the contrary–venerated founder of the Wingnut City Ignoramus Association.

“O Muse of Rio Limbaugh, now rehearse
The Party excellence of bein’ ‘versed,’
Of havin’ verse ’n’ chapter well in paw
When sallyin’ forth in Wrath to lay down Law!
’Tis stout versation foils uncouth dismissal . . . .”

I beg your pardon, sir! And yes, as a matter of fact I DO know that it’s only a pun, the versification of limericks and _piyyûtîm_ being literal, that of the neokiddies’ Master Glenn as here alluded to, no better than figurative.

More to the point, it strikes me that the bad boy of Bozostán could simply be JEALOUS of Borger Geert, whose _shtyk_ is sufficiently similar, I fear, to activate the “Two of a trade will never agree” reflex.

Freiherr Roger von Lichtenberg-Simon goes on to offer a free psychoanalysis of Chuckles [*]–and worth every penny!–which deters me from playing the same silly game even with a Señorito de Beck y Atwater.

¡Gezonde dagen!

___
[*] Neocomrade Dr. Med. Ch. von Krauthammer

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:35 am 33. Seth:

I too am surprised at Beck and Krauthammer, especially the usually very knowledgeable and eminently sensible and realistic Krauthammer.

It looks to me like both men are relying on what others have said about Islam and Muhammad, and that neither man has actually read the three fundamental books of Islam—the Qu’ran, and the two other essential books that help make the Qur’an more intelligible, the principal Hadiths (the words and deeds of the Prophet and his Companions) and the Sira (ibn Ishaq’s biography of Muhammad). The Center for the Study of Political Islam produces an excellent set of inexpensive paperback copies of these three core documents that they have reorganized, indexed and have reliably translated into newspaper level English (http://www.cspipublishing.com/).

Had they read these core documents, done some actual research on the history of Islam and its Jihad against all “unbelievers” these last 1,400 years, looked at what have been called the “bloody borders” of Islam all over the Earth, where Muslims are fighting virtually every one of their unbeliever neighbors (http://chromatism.net/bloodyborders/) ,
contemplated the running tally of Muslim terrorist attacks around the world just since 9/11, as of today standing at 14,968 (see http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/), checked out the sermons, documents, official government statements, and TV shows coming out of the Muslim world, translated and available at the Middle East Media Research Institute’s web site (http://www.memri.org/) read, say, Raymond Ibrahim’s “Al Qaeda Reader (http://www.amazon.com/Al-Qaeda-Reader-Raymond-Ibrahim/dp/038551655X), and, perhaps, paid attention to reportage about the Muslim Brotherhood (Ikhwan) 1991 strategy document, introduced without objection at the Federal Government’s recent Holy Land Foundation terrorism funding trial, in which they said the following:

“The Ikhwan must understand that all their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” their miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all religions

or the lessons in hating unbelievers taught Muslims at Saudi funded schools here in America (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/19/AR2006051901769.html and http://www.hudson.org/files/pdf_upload/Excerpts_from_Saudi_Textbooks_715.pdf)
they would be likely, I believe, come to the same conclusion that I have, that there is no “moderate” school of Islam. That there are no pacifistic reformers in the Muslim world—no alternative school of thought just itching to change Islam and reform the Qu’ran. That the distinction between Islam and “Islamism” is a fiction, dreamed up by Muslims and their sympathizers as part of the disinformation operation designed to confuse and mislead clueless unbelievers, who are deep, deep into denial, and want desperately to believe that Islam and Muslims are not the existential threat to the West–its culture, values and way of life–and to every “unbeliever” on Earth–that they truly are.

As for the hundreds of millions of “moderate Muslims,” I notice that they are silent and do not denounce the Jihad and Muslim terrorism, and by their silence support that Jihad, but that Muslims in their hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions can be found chanting and screaming “death to America” and “death to Israel” at demonstrations around the world on what seems like an almost daily basis.

The choices that Islam and Muslims have presented to all unbelievers they have fought these last 1,400 years are simple; conversion, subjection, slavery or death, there are no others. The hard truth is that 1,400 years ago Allah and Muhammad commanded that Muslims “fight every man until all cry that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet” and to fight unceasingly until the day that “all is for Allah” i.e. Islam rules all the World and every person in it is living under Shari’a law. This is a truth that few of us unbelievers care to face, but that we all need to, if we are to survive.

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:44 am 34. exdem:

One reason for all this confusion and discussion on the Geert Wilders case is that the mainstream media has provided almost zero coverage on the relentless spread of Islamic culture in Europe. In many cities there are no-go zones where native born citizens no longer feel safe. The U.K. has for all intents and purposes already yielded to the inclusion of Sharia law in their judicial system. A tipping point is fast approaching and people like Geert Wilders are desperately trying to salvage their cherished national heritage before it is too late. Our newspaper editors and talking heads on TV are oblivious to all this and that is almost as frightening as the prospect of Europe becoming a Muslim continent.

Also, I would like to call attention to a powerful March 7 article titled “Islam Is Incompatable With Diversity” by Daniel Greenberg who runs the SULTAN KNISH blog. Here is an excerpt: “The idea that Islam can be an ingredient in a multicultural society is as foolish as the idea that adding a tank full of piranhas to an aquarium will result in species diversity. Because Islam does not participate in the ecology of a multicultural society, it is a predator consuming and destroying cultures and beliefs and leaving only corpses and frightened victims in its wake.”

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:48 am 35. Supreme Allied Commander:

10. Terry, Eilat – Israel:

I have worked in Muslim countries and agree it is not a future I wish for myself or anyone for that matter. truly dark ages

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:50 am 36. David Mane:

Thanks for a brilliant analysis. Your explanation is a relief from worrying about losing Beck & Krauthammer to the dark side. Now I think they’ll come back maybe just after reading your article. The greatest weapon we have is intellectual power. The normal strengths, the GOP, a great leader, insiders, all seem to be lacking currently but intellectual output of the right is inspirational. So, when two of the best intellects betray the man who just may turn out to be the Churchill in this unfolding nightmare it’s dispiriting. Bewildering and a little scary too. I think the current situation is a matter of cowardice. Most people are acting towards Islam the way you did when the school bully wandered in your direction 30 years ago. Be really nice to him hoping he hits the next guy. But not Geert Wilders. Not one little bit. He should be supported & Roger it’s great that you do.

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:54 am 37. EVA:

I used to think many muslims were moderate but I believe now that while Many muslims live as law abiding citizens here, I can tell you from experiece that they do not want to. I’ve suggested this before and will suggest again: Men such as Beck and Krauthammer should go where they have probably never been before. Go hang out in muslim neighborhoods or where they congregate in public and observe the way they stare at western women. Let their wives and daughters walk past a group of muslim men hanging out on the street. See how they like seeing western women be leered at so hatefully and so openly. It’s an unnerving experience.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:01 am 38. lc:

Excellent post. I recommend a somewhat related post by Wretchard at the Belmont Club a while back called “The Three Conjectures.”
http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2003/09/three-conjectures-pew-poll-finds-40-of.html

Wilder’s speech may be inflammatory, but to ignore it risks the bigger conflagration. I wonder if, in a reactionary world, the fear is that what Wilders is saying is too deadly. And, if it’s not a reactionary world, does what go around not come around? Let’s not let a lack of courage hold us back – in this case, courage is expressed in belief in our own ideals and values, belief in the value of our own culture, belief in the evidence of our own lying eyes. Let’s not philosophize away what seems to be patently obvious.

I think I remember reading from Bernard Lewis that jihad has traditionally, or rather historically, been used to mean violent, physical struggle. Jihad as a more abstract struggle is largely a modern interpretation. As far as an Islamic reformation, it is unlikely – the Koran is the perfect word of God delivered by His messenger, Mohammed. There can be no improvement on final perfection.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:02 am 39. Richard in Chicago:

I really can’t understand all the cognitive dissonance over Krauthammer. I realized long ago that he never says anything that hasn’t been said a week earlier by half a dozen writers who are at least as intelligent and much more humble. In the fall of 2008 he predicted that Obama would serve two brilliant terms (not that he would ever admit being wrong). Today being the real thing is not as important as playing it on television. There is a curious symbiosis at work here–a man who grew up believing he was a genius, and thousands of people who desire a one-stop source of instant wisdom.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:14 am 40. David B.:

Every time there is a terrorist attack by a Muslim “radical” or “extremist”, we are duly reminded that other religions have their radicals and extremists as well. The clear difference, never mentioned, is that the radical, extreme Christian, in most closely following the example set by Jesus, is a saint and not a suicide bomber. Just as the sincere Christian seeks to become Christ to others according to His teachings and example as the Prince of Peace, so too the sincere Muslim will seek to emulate Mohamed, a prophet of war and violence who similarly led by example. You can no more remove the historical Mohamed from the religion of Islam, than remove the historical Jesus from Christianity. “Moderate” Islam is like Christ-less Christianity–something Muslim apologists would love to see.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:21 am 41. Bohemond:

Wilders reminds me in a way of Enoch Powell (without Powell’s astounding intellect). Both condemned as ‘racists, ‘fascists,’ and ‘right-wing extremists’ for the dread thoughtcrime of pointing out that His Muliticultural Majesty is nekkid; and, while Powell wasn’t subjected to a show trial he was banished to the political outer darkness.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:26 am 42. oldguy:

The signers of the Declaration of Independence were radical and extreme. Sometimes these intellectuals allow a little pseudo to infiltrate their intellectualism.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:28 am 43. Jack in Silver Spring:

Roger – Excellent column (as usual). I must agree with Terry, Eilat Israel @ #10. As I have said frequently in my comments about Islam, it is not a religion, it is a political ideology pretending to be a religion, it is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:29 am 44. Houyhnhnm:

Krauthammer is not infallible. As for the Saudi investment in News Corp, I am reminded of Microsoft’s investment in Apple in the late 90’s to keep Apple afloat. (That was clearly in the interest of both organizations.)

This story is a relevant example of the importance of Pajamas Media (and the blogosphere in general).

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:29 am 45. Toronto Girl:

Islam is a radical, political ideology. It should be fought against in the same fashion as Nazism or Marxism. Geert Wilders should be vindicated, not vilified. Glenn Beck’s opinion doesn’t matter to me, but if Krauthammer starts to go soft, that is a concern.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:30 am 46. james:

Well, even Sir Charles The Great can be wrong once in a while. Obviously not every Muslim is going to fly his plane into an office building. But the ones who will are supported by those who won’t and, most important, if the chips ever come down they will side with the aviators.
We saw this in Nazi Germany. When Hitler ran for president in 1932 he was defeated soundly, garnering only about a third of the vote. Six years later, when he marched into Vienna, he had pretty much one hundred percent support of the German population. You don’t need to be the majority to create one.
Nazism was totalist, as is Islam. That’s why Roger, and Wilders, are right on this one.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:36 am 47. Raymond in DC:

Thoms L writes, “The question becomes, how do we accomplish or encourage a reformation or enlightment in Islam that will eliminate or subdue radical Islamists? Not by ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away, that’s for sure.”

Hoping for a reformation in Islam is wishful thinking. A few years ago, a leading Islamic scholar at Al Azhar in Cairo was asked whether it wasn’t time for a reformation that would accept equality with women and non-Muslims, that would eliminate polygamy and jihad, etc. (something along those lines). He answered, “But that would not be Islam!”

Perhaps the closest to such a reformation was the emergence of the Bahai, which has roots in Shia Islam. They’re deemed apostates and, like all apostates from Islam, are hated most of all.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:43 am 48. Dave in Dallas:

This is one of those times when my combination of worldwide and southern upbringing leaves me unprepared to fully understand a situation. It’s about being Jewish and having a personal relationship with the history of Europe which I cannot understand except in the abstract.

Krauthammer has misstated, I believe, the Wilders position. Wilders very carefully and repeatedly distinguishes between “Islam” and “peaceful Muslims”, which is sensible and based on evidence. Krauthammer wants to force, semantically, the word “Islamism” into this equation and then claim that, because Wilders doesn’t use that word, he is failing to distinguish.

But Wilders has the stronger argument, based I believe on the fact that he is living with these things every day. No Muslim, no matter how radical or ‘moderate’, calls himself an Islamist. And any muslim you ask, who is unafraid of being declarative, will tell you the Koran is quite specific on what Muslims should do and why, and that the book itself agitates for violence and militancy. It is not ‘islamism’, it is ISLAM. The fact that so many millions of good people do not follow the prescription for violence and conquering is testimony to the essential goodness of human beings, not to the existence of an ‘alternate Islam’ for decent folks. It is all the same Islam, but many choose to ignore the worst of it. Good for them. That doesn’t make ‘radicals’ into something other than Muslims, though, as Wilders explains.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:47 am 49. Charles Stevens:

‘If Wilders is correct, and the line between Islam and Islamism is as blurred as the Dutchman posits, then we in the West are in very deep trouble indeed. And nothing short of an Islamic reformation will solve it. (Well, there is something else, but it’s pretty close to global Armageddon and who wants to deal with that?)’

By drawing this false choice, Mr. Simon refuses to consider necessarily hard but essential options, and thereby makes a dhimmi of himself.

Wilders is not only correct in his assessment, he is correct in his solution. All Muslim immigration must be stopped immediately. I will go further… there must be a policy firmly stating that all Muslims who already reside here must renounce Sharia, the hadiths, and non-abrogated parts of the Koran, otherwise they should emigrate.

Wilders is not the danger, he speaks with unwavering clarity about the real danger of Islam which is absolutely incompatible with classically liberal Western society. Those who shy away from this truth are weak dhimmis and useful idiots who only prolong the inevitable.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:50 am 50. Jose Garcia:

Quick story…I live here in upstate NY, just north of the capitol city Albany…I frequent a certain gas station that is run by muslims..They are,most often than not,very nice to me…One day I was talking to one of them and he said the following,” Do you know who is the cause of all the problems in the world today?”..I responded that I did not know..He said the following,”The Jew..The Jew is the cause of all the problems!!!”…I responded by saying “Oh really?”..But inside I FROZE..I felt a chill run up and down my spine…I felt as if I was reliving history…You see it said on TV,but to have it personally said to you is very scary…I never went back there again….This did not happen in Israel or Holland..This happened in the good ole USofA…We are in deep trouble…I guess we did not learn the lessons of 9/11…

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:59 am 51. david stanley:

I think one reason for the lack of support for Wilders is the “fellow traveller” problem. Many who support him would have more extreme views about race and immigration than he does. By expressing support you contaminate yourself by appearing to side with these unsavoury people.
People are tribal,we all are to some extent.Every criticism of Islam can be taken(and will be) as an attack on Muslim people who define themselves by birth. Open apostasy is unusual in Europe and dangerous.
Until westerners can find something to believe in apart from their own comfort no progress can be made.

Mar 11, 2010 - 8:02 am 52. Ilan Ben Menachem:

Wilders is not the danger, he speaks with unwavering clarity about the real danger of Islam which is absolutely incompatible with classically liberal Western society. Those who shy away from this truth are weak dhimmis and useful idiots who only prolong the inevitable.
yes this is true!!!!!!

Mar 11, 2010 - 8:16 am 53. Sarge:

If anyone honestly feels that there are peaceful Muslims that wish to live side by side with Christians and Jews. That person needs to remove their head from their tushies, or at least give the rest of us time to insert our heads in our tushies, so that we can see things from their point of view. To understand Islam, and Muslim beliefs, one only needs to read “Son of Hamas”. Islam is violent, and every single Koran believing Muslim is just one fatwa away from becomeing a murdering jihadist terrorist.

Mar 11, 2010 - 8:20 am 54. Charles Stevens:

Why are Islam and classically liberal Western culture intrinsically incompatible?

- Because there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. The only moderate Muslim is an apostate.
- Because Islam is not a religion, it is a totalitarian political ideology wrapped around a barbaric 7th century Arabist culture.
- Because in the final analysis, all Muslims are terrorists… 10% do the actual dirty work, and the rest insist it’s not their problem.

Are these unsupported assertions or hard truths? Each of us must decide, but we will never arrive at any answers if we refuse to discuss it openly and without fear. For too long, those in this country on both the left and the right (such as the execrable Bush) have self-censored and played the game of political correctness. If we continue such nonsense, we only prolong an existential problem festering in our midst.

Mar 11, 2010 - 8:29 am 55. urbanleftbehind:

Beck is covering for his own Latter-Day-Saints, which one could observe from afar and note Mormonism and Islam have a lot of similarities.

Mar 11, 2010 - 8:33 am 56. David Mane:

re David Stanley
How’s this? Around the corner in Sydney lives a university lecturer in Mathematics, a Muslim guy, a very nice smart Muslim guy. The kids play together, and they’re a fun warm bunch and you know what’s coming. He explains to me how when him & his 150 friends get together for the weekly bar-b-que there’s only one topic of conversation, the Jews. They control the banks, the government, the media, you name it & why don’t the Muslims control anything? I gently asked him how many hard workers there were among his 150 mates & he said none. I gently said that I didn’t know a single Jewish person who doesn’t work hard and we laughed a bit because he’s certainly a hard worker. It’s the 150 mates I’m worried about.

Mar 11, 2010 - 8:35 am 57. Paul of Alexandria:

Dane (7):

…but by the same token, attempts to ban a religion or religious text because it is ‘a political movement’ by nature is diametrically opposed to the exercise of freedom of religion.

But, on the other hand, what are we to do when that religion calls for violent overthrow of the society? It’s a difficult question: where do we draw the line between freedom of religious belief and restriction of religious practice, especially when the practice is fundamentally ingrained in the belief?

Remember: the problem is that there is no separation between church and state in Islam. No Muslim will ever say “render to Caesar that which is Caesar’s, to God that which is God’s”.

Mar 11, 2010 - 8:38 am 58. Samson:

don’t forget Bill Kristol. Beck, Kristol and Krauthammer are like many many others who should know better yet believe there is a moderate Islam.

As you say Roger maybe they don’t want to curse themselves and join the fight, they prefer to ignore the issue wish it away. WISH thinking …I am sure Charles knows the affliction in others but can not see it in himself.

I often wondered how so many Jews and others knowing they would die regardless didn’t fight during the Holocaust. Is this the affliction we are witnessing in slow motion now.

Mar 11, 2010 - 8:42 am 59. RWE:

At the beginning of WWII I think you could be anti-Nazi but be opposed to killing every last German.

But by 1942 I don’t think you could be anti-Nazi and not admit that we were going to have to kill an awful lot of Germans, including not only ardent party members but ordinary fairly inoffensive men and even woman and children because we could not separate the groups. A guy who worked in a Tiger tank factory but thought that the Nazis were idiots was a legitimate target, because his toil supported the Nazis, even if his main purpose was simply to stay out of jail and support his family. Willing servent or helpless hostage, you could not count on him to blow up the tank factory himself.

The Allied crews who bombed that factory were not as bad as Nazis simply because they used the same methods and were better at it. And they were not as bad as Nazis when they killed innocent woman and children.

I think that when people like Beck and Krauthamer see people like Wilders they think “After he is finished with the Muslims he will start on the Jews and then the homosexuals and eventually he will come for me.” But there is no indication of that. Just because you flew an airplane wiped out Dresden does not mean that you are going to start your own concentration camps and gas chambers.

Wilders is willing, at worst, to do the equivalent of bombing Dresden. And that’s all.

Mar 11, 2010 - 8:47 am 60. Cynic:

I hope it has been noted that some of the witnesses Wilders hoped to have testify were rejected by the Court.
http://www.internationalfreepresssociety.org/2010/02/court-rejects-wilders-witnesses/

Mar 11, 2010 - 8:52 am 61. Tex Taylor:

I have immense respect for Charles Krauthhammer’s talents, but concerning Islam, Krauthammer is ignoring the obvious. Americans need to understand this fact: Islam is not compatible with the governing rules of the U.S. Constitution.

We can spin this in the hopes of not offending, something along the lines of “peaceful and law abiding Muslims,” as I’m sure many are. But if so, these Muslims are secular in their nature.

“8. Spinoneone” is correct when he said this:

“Far more that any Judeo-Christian belief, Islam is a total life regulating system imposing both a personal code of conduct and a government.

What I would perhaps modify, and I won’t speak for Jews but Christians, our “regulating system” is very clear about how we are to conduct are dealings with the ruling authority of government:

Romans 13:1-2
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

And that makes the Constitution and the Bible perfectly compatible.

But let’s not pretend that the Koran and the Constitution are somehow compatible too. Sharia law and the will of Allah do not agree that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. It is submission to Allah or death.

To pretend otherwise is folly.

Mar 11, 2010 - 9:01 am 62. Mike M:

A question I enjoy asking those who want to believe there is a peaceful Islam is, “In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue, WHY?” Because Constantinople became Istanbul!

Mar 11, 2010 - 9:12 am 63. Proud_Kafir7908:

As for any attempts at reforming mohammedanism, I once heard on an audioclip of a debate featuring Raymond Ibrahim there was one such effort a couple of centuries ago, and it produced Salafism… Well, and isn’t Salafism basically a more tyrant-friendly version of Saudi Arabia’s Wahhabism?

Mar 11, 2010 - 9:23 am 64. Dr. Dave:

Great article. I’m a big fan of Beck and Krauthammer and I couldn’t believe what I heard them say. Beck has really taken a dip in the crazy pool lately. This “no difference between the right and left” meme is growing wearisome. He then falls into the statist trap of labeling the extreme right as fascists. The difference between socialism and fascism is structural, not fundamental. They are certainly not ideologically distinct. They’re almost the same thing!

I’ve admired Wilders ever since I saw his (quickly scrubbed) video about the truth of the Koran. Islam is indeed a great threat and we marginalize this threat at our peril.

Maybe Beck will go back to beating the deficit to death for a few days and come to his senses.

Mar 11, 2010 - 9:25 am 65. DVG:

Excellent article. After 9/11, I well first off, I was po’d. Really po’d. As my anger abated, I tried to focus on this issue. What is Islam? I’m afraid that the truth does frighten. However, I believe there is sufficient evidence to conclude Islam is the problem.
The point about devout and slacker muslims is a great one. Over time, if Islam is allowed to infect society to a higher degree, these slackers will become less docile. Then the really scary stuff is in our face.

Islam has declared war. If we do not understand what the true nature of our dilemma, we will be unable to address it.

The current leader of Turkey has said there is no moderate Islam, only Islam.

Shall we not take these people at their word?

Mar 11, 2010 - 9:29 am 66. Tina Trent:

Look, there is a tremendous anxiety about speaking out against hate speech OR hate crime laws because the consequences for doing so are real, as Steyn discovered. These laws have been booby-trapped to prevent real debate because they are essentially indefensible — as Steyn also discovered.

Luckily, we are now moving towards the point where people feel comfortable pointing that out. Meanwhile, our Attorney General, Eric Holder, continues to have only one defense for these laws — incoherent squawking that “hate is worse” than other crimes. The more we talk about this, the weaker their arguments will sound, because they are weak.

And then maybe Krauthammer will feel comfortable actually discussing the subject, instead of reverting to groundless accusation. Note that he labeled Wilders without offering much explanation. Roger Simon is absolutely correct: this is fear, and fearful projection speaking.

Mar 11, 2010 - 9:29 am 67. chuck:

I agree with Roger that it is very likely that Krauthammer and other apologists for Islam are afraid that Wilders is right; largely because the overwhelming evidence, amassed over 1400 years, is that he is right. there is no such thing as moderate Islam and there never will be. Is a moderate amount of terrorism ok; or is a moderate amount of torture, rape, murder, oppression or any of the other wonderful gifts of Islam acceptable to a civilized society? Any so-called moderate law-abiding Muslim who puts a dollar, euro, or pound in the collection plate or by whatever means contributes to a Muslim “charity”, is contributing to jihad,terrorism and the death of the west. As the slogan of twelve step programs says: half measures avail us nothing. Islam must be confronted not appeased. Geert Wilders is a hero.
As to the Idea of a reformation of Islam, that is ludicrous wishful thinking. Why would the side that is clearly winning want to change its strategy?

Mar 11, 2010 - 9:36 am 68. Pragmatist:

Islam is as Islam does and we all know what that is. However many misguided people, that is apart from moonbats who are uniformed, naive, gullible and misguided as a natural part of what they are, seem to accept the TAQQIYA (LIES) that Mohammedans are permitted and in fact encouraged to tell to protect and FURTHER the cause of Islam. However in spite of all the TAQQIYA (LIES) some Mohammedans really tell it like it is and their so called Holy Book the Koran is full of it ,hate,misogyny, antisemitism, violence,Arab supremacism and endless repetitive nonsense that is and they are just its good points. So when a Kaffir tells you that he believes there is a peaceful Islam then you KNOW he knows nothing at all about Islam and has never read the Koran or the aHadith.

Mar 11, 2010 - 9:41 am 69. Abdulameer:

Krauthammer is the “sine qua non” or American conservatives?
What the heck does that mean?

Mar 11, 2010 - 9:42 am 70. Dave Smith:

In defense of Beck and Krauthammer: I am quite bothered over attacks by bloggers on this website on Glenn Beck and Charles Krauthammer for comments they made on Geert Wilders and European muslims. I don’t know enough about Wilders to have an opinion on whether Beck or Krauthammer are right or wrong in their comments on the man(although Wilders intrigues me enough that I want to know more.)

What I do know, however, is that Beck and Krauthammer have done invaluable service to the cause of returning America back to its conservative, Constituional roots. And they’ve brought this message nightly to millions of Americans in Fox’s ever-expanding audience.

I have to ask their critics on this website, are we blessed with so many national media champions of American exceptualism that we can afford to throw under the bus those who make a comment on two on which we disagree?

Perhaps instead of focusing on those few things they say that might jar us, we should look at the body of their work. Both men have not only expressed views on which most of us, most of the time, can agree, they’ve educated their audiences on the basic principles and history of this great land. I know they’ve helped educate me.

Are they perfect? Of course not! Which of us is? Like Beck has said so many times, a man is tested not by the mistakes he makes, but by how he or she learns from those mistakes. I feel confident that if these two men find that they were wrong in their assessment of Geert Wilders, they will publicly admit it. I would hope their critics would do the same.

Mar 11, 2010 - 9:49 am 71. David W. Lincoln:

Salim Mansur is a Muslim professor at the University of Western Ontario. Columns of his can be found at sunmedia.ca

His most recent column lead to a letter of the editor that I sent in, but it hasn’t show up in the letters section.

The argument I posed is this: Those most in favour of less freedom of speech have profound anxiety about people who arrive at a different conclusion about freedom of speech. The first group is worried that the second group would miss what is wrong about what the first group finds objectionable.

Well, that anxiety is just as, if not more so, dangerous than the one’s whom they find objectionable.

Mein Kampf has holes in it, like Das Kapital,
that a truck could be driven through it. This isn’t only based upon perception, but objective reality.

Therefore, either the crowd that favours less
freedom of speech grows up, or they stop receiving so much credibility in regards to what they say.

So, which is it going to be?

Mar 11, 2010 - 10:20 am 72. max wyeth:

Roger
You’re right about Krauthammer’s view. I think Fox told these guys to back off supporting him. Maybe Alaweed called in his 7%.
Reading Dalrymple’s The New Vichy Syndrome, which has an interesting take on the situation over there. Basically, he doesn’t think the threat level is that high because the muslim males are acting too stupid to accomplish much. The europeans appear to have given up though and just want to consume until they die, childless. A whimper indeed.

Mar 11, 2010 - 10:27 am 73. Noesis Noeseos:

Ol’ 32 seems to be brushing up on his word mysticism, but he really should limit is gammatria to his nightly sessions with the cabala.

Mar 11, 2010 - 10:40 am 74. Carpenter:

some have written:
“…I think Fox told these guys to back off supporting him….”

OK now I get it. The FOX EXECs told GBeck to call Geert Wilders a Fascist. Wow that makes perfect sense. Gee I am so relieved to know that Glenn Beck, the self proclaimed VOICE OF FREEDOM is a puppet on a corporate string and the Truth, his Truth is determined by his paycheck! WOW! I feel so much better now.

I hope that Mark Levine, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter (and 100’s of others) rip him to shreds over this. Because if they don’t’ if they use the ‘FOX’ excuse then they are just as big of phonies as Beck is.

Just curious but are there other Libertarian-ists who take this same view of Geert Wilders as GBeck does?

Mar 11, 2010 - 10:45 am 75. leo:

The problem with Beck, Krauthammer and the rest of center right crowd is the Truth. For some reason they are in denial, because no one in the western world wants to believe that a religion can be source of evil. The bigger problem is the cooperation and the common
political ideology between Islam and international left(Socialist, Fascist, Communist etc.)

Mar 11, 2010 - 10:50 am 76. Neobuzz:

Dear Roger,

It is difficult to imagine Charles Krauthammer or any other mainstream pundit making the argument that we should draw a distinction between radical Nazis and moderate Nazis. Can you picture Dr. Krauthammer making this plausible and probably factual argument in defense of tolerating Nazism?:

“If you look at (Nazi Germany), the overwhelming majority of (German Nazis) in (Germany) were not (radical Nazis).”

Yours truly,

Neobuzz

Ps. I, too, am also a huge Krauthammer fan.

Mar 11, 2010 - 10:59 am 77. tommy gunn:

To fellow readers:

I am impressed with the scope of knowledge of this group of readers. It makes me realize what free speech is all about. Ask yourself this question? Would I be able to be say these things about Islam if I lived in Saudi Arabia or Iran? We know the answer.
Gert Wilders is the MAN in the spot light right now defending his right to tell the truth about Islam. For that he is being sued by the Dutch courts and was almost banned from entering the UK. With this behavior the Dutch and Brits are becoming just as intolerant of free speech as Islamic countries are.

As to criticism of Krauthammer and Beck. These guys are big boys and as public figures who make their living off of their opinions hopefully they can handle the few soft balls we have thrown at them. However it proves the point too that this audiance is smart and knowledgeable. How many knew that the Saudi’s own 7% of News Corp? Do we believe that Rupert is in a position to censor his guest hosts in some way? That would be an interesting theme to explore.

When Krauthammer and Beck come to their senses and tell us the truth about Islam, I will be happy to support them but I will not apologize to them or anyone else for telling the truth as I see it. Hopefully Beck is about one book away from knowing the truth. He should read “American Alone” by Mark Steyn.

Best

Tommy Gunn

Mar 11, 2010 - 11:00 am 78. Dane:

#57 Paul of Alexandria:

“But, on the other hand, what are we to do when that religion calls for violent overthrow of the society?”

As long as they do not act on what they say, nothing. If they do act, treat it the same way we’d treat any other case of incitement to commit crimes.

Just like we allow rabid lefty protesters in California to rail about smashing the state all they want, so long as they don’t actually go out and do it.

Frankly, even if we set aside the free speech issue, history pretty clearly shows us that you can’t destroy a religion – at least, not using the sort of methods that are available to a free society. At best, you’ll drive it underground, and make those who practice it feel like a persecuted minority at war with the rest of the nation.

I’d rather let them practice openly, and keep an eye on the ones who bear watching. In the war of ideas, I’ll bet on western society to beat medieval thinking any day. Extremist muslim immigrants can rant and rave – but their grandchildren will be wearing jeans, listening to bad pop music and watching Desperate Housewives.

Mar 11, 2010 - 11:09 am 79. Wynne:

Regarding Krauthammer, I agree with Richard in Chicago (39).

Fear of the truth seems to me a less likely explanation than the fact that very few conservative spokesmen are entirely immune from the multicultural memes of the 60’s. Perhaps, though, that’s a distinction without a difference…

In my view Krauthammer is often wrong, always elitist and occasionally brilliant. As for Beck, if there are yet lacunae in his learning, he seems hard at work to fill them.

Wilders in one of the few courageous, common sense voices in a Europe bent on suicide, and I’m happy to find essayists rising in his defense.

Mar 11, 2010 - 11:12 am 80. WTD:

It’s very encouraging to see all the support here for Geert Wilders. But there is so much more work to do to keep blunders as big as the recent misguided characterization of Wilders/PVV by Krauthammer & Beck are to be averted in the future.

Roger L. Simon, it would help if the links you post in your piece were accessible to all.

Your link to Bill Whittle’s interview with Geert Wilders is behind a registration wall for paid viewers only. How is that going to help clear up this mess? Kindly consider opening Whittle’s interview with Wilders for the general public.

FWIW, I would be a paying member if there was a snail mail addy to send membership fees to. I have requested this information months ago and was informed the option was under consideration for those who can/do not use online payment options.

Mar 11, 2010 - 11:14 am 81. Bob:

It would be wise of Charles Krauthammer and Glen Beck to consider the exemplary works of Bill Warner and his Political Islam blog.

There’s no difference between Islam and Islamism, it’s the one and the same. There are about 10% of Islamic fanatics and militants worldwide carrying on the very dangerous, death-dealing kind of works that the 90% of Muslims won’t do themselves (but privately support the 10%). After all, Islam is a total system that Muslims believe it must be ambitiously imposed upon the world and humanity, whatever the costs and whatever it takes.

A solid line must be drawn in the ground between the West and Islam, and there must no blurring in that line at all. Freedom must be protected at all costs.

Mar 11, 2010 - 11:19 am 82. jdtruly:

The distinctions of who’s a Muslim, Jihadist and/or Islamist may be put in clearer light with an analogy with Catholicism. (This is intended in no way to liken Catholics to Muslims, nor to condemn the Catholic Church).

The Catholic Church rejects abortion, birth control, etc. There are, however, gobs of Catholics who, in practice, do not adhere to the more rigid calls of their church. They still call themselves Catholics and, no doubt, support the Catholic Church in many ways. Thus the difference between orthodoxy and practice do not always line up.

Likewise, there is Muslim orthodoxy which, based on their book, requires the covering of women, jihadism, deception of non-believers, etc. There are, however, Muslims (one suspects particularly those who have emigrated to the west) who do not practice their faith that way. They, nonetheless call themselves Muslims.

One could say their are cultural Catholics and Muslims and there are orthodox Catholics and Muslims. The bottom line is, what is at the heart of what’s being taught and advocated. The Catholic Church does not have charities which purport to help the poor yet funnel money to terrorists. There are, however, many “charities” in the name of Islam which have the cover of helping the poor and primarily support terror. “Where their treasure is also their heart lies.” – it is the orthodox position, supported by the un-orthodox that speaks for the faith, whichever one it is. One for good, the other perverted for evil.

This understanding is essential to the guidance of public policy – if that’s what Geert Wilders is concerned about, then one has to wonder why the opposition.

Mar 11, 2010 - 11:23 am 83. Sherab Zangpo:

The pseudo-culture of “political correctness” has been imposed to the West to weaken it, and now that the enemy is at the gates the PC pseudo-culture is doing its job by not allowing an open debate about the threat of islam against Freedom.

This is one part of the problem.

Another part of the problem is the money that runs in giant tsunamis from the oil producing islamic world to the pockets of Western politicians and universities and media.

We must resist islam so that it can be forced to the self-reformation that it never went through.
The conquest of the world by islam was stopped only by the colossal gap created by the scientific and industrial revolution, but now the oil money gives to the fanatics the tools they need to attack again. Therefore, now the political and cultural resistance must do the job of stopping the invasion and stop the eternal war of islam against Freedom.

First step: throw away the pc pseudo-culture, learn again to talk rationally about each single problem.

Mar 11, 2010 - 11:54 am 84. ricpic:

It is beyond awful but not beyond belief that so many respectable people out there have to agonize about whether or not to stand up for a man of the caliber, both in intellect and courage, of Geert Wilders. Such is the power of the International Socialist Establishment to intimidate in our world.

Mar 11, 2010 - 12:32 pm 85. Morton Doodslag:

“I have the exact same fear. I think many of us do and we don’t want to face it. Who would? The resultant conclusions are too depressing.” -Roger Simon

So how do you think our Founding Fathers felt about the necessity of rupturing England’s hold on the colonies? Did the fact that it was “depressing” prevent them from first considering what might be done??? From talking about what might be done???

Talking and considering what might be done is the first step to arriving at solutions to a dilemma… How cowardly for Americans today to “fear” even discussing the prospects of increasing levels of Jihad as Muslims insinuate themselves ever more firmly on our territory. We don’t risk getting our heads chopped off by some colonial superpower — we don’t yet face the threat of beheadings by our Muslim enemies (though with only 8-10% population density in Europe, Europeans DO face the very real threat of death and insurrection from the exploding Muslim masses infesting their neighborhoods and metropolises…

We’d better get over our “fear” and begin using our treasure of FREE SPEECH before it’s too late. Already the forces of oppression, both from our radical Left PC Gestapo, and increasingly from the Storm Troopers of Islam on our soil to suppress our right to discuss this topic in the open.

A year or two ago, Roger Simon’s “fear” made him accept libel-blogger Charles Johnson’s fascist smears of a wonderful little website called “Gates of Vienna” where they’ve been having this discussion for years — WITHOUT FEAR.

Get over the fear, or you’ll have a lot more than fear to worry about — you’ll have genuine violence, oppression by Muslims, and insurrection on your hands to worry about.

Last — as for some kind of “Islamic reformation” — We’re seeing it — it’s called “Al Qaida” — it’s called “Iran” – it’s called “Hezbollah” and “Jumaat al Fuqra” — it’s called “Hamas”, and “CAIR”, and “ISNA” and “The Muslim Student Association”. They are here – and they are legion…

Mar 11, 2010 - 12:37 pm 86. Sashland:

Maybe the word game would be viewed differently if, instead of creating a word “islamist” to attempt to denote some radical who somehow misconstrues the tenets of “Islam”, we were to use the terminology “fundamentalist islam” to describe strict adherence to the text. The problem for the apologists and want-it-to-be’s is that the terrorist’s espouse fundamentalist islam.

For, as noted above, if one actually reads the green book, the conclusion must be that only a bad muslin is a good muslin, and only a good muslin is a bad muslin.

The issue of how to handle a religion that calls for violence and overthrow of the government is ripe. Prosecuting violent action is one marker short of banning, but isn’t incitement to violence a crime? Not a hate crime, but an actual crime, like conspiracy. Hmmm, anyone think a RICO prosecution might work against the violence preaching mosques?

Banning, forced Reformation, prosecution for incitement, public shaming; what are the appropriate tools for society when faced with a seditious religion? We enter new legal and societal territory (for the US).

Who will be our leaders, the strong and brave or the weak and submissive? My guess is that it will not be our weak leaders but our strong and brave citizens.

Mar 11, 2010 - 12:40 pm 87. Geronimo:

I think it is a mistake to argue that Islam is an ideology, not a religion. There is no reason at all why it cannot be both.

The difficulty we face is that the religions of the West have entered into a compromise called “religious tolerance”. We have enshrined this principle in our Constitution, without considering or even realizing that we have devised no mechanism for enforcing the terms of this compromise.

Muslims in the US are willing to tolerate our religions (and my atheism) just so long as they lack the power to do otherwise. Just that long, and no longer. Western religions are mutually tolerant because they choose to be. Islam does not, and we will either modify our institutions to deal with this fact, or we will watch as they are destroyed.

Mar 11, 2010 - 12:46 pm 88. Dane:

#85 Morton Doodslag:

Just because Charles Johnson has since teetered over to the left side doesn’t mean he wasn’t spot-on correct in his criticisms of Gates of Vienna.

Mar 11, 2010 - 1:15 pm 89. Wesley:

Beck and Krauthammer are very wrong on Wilders. Wilders fights against Islamo-fascism, he is pro-Israel and for freedom from tyranny. There is only one Wilders in politics over here in Europe, while there are thousands of dhimmis in politics.

Nigeria should be a severe warning: 50% Muslims – 50% Christians, and already Christians are massacred in the hundreds. By the way, the MSM in Europe describe that massacre as if it was a sort of mutual conflict, not an attack solely from the Muslim side..

Mar 11, 2010 - 1:40 pm 90. Instapundit » Blog Archive » ROGER SIMON: Beck, Krauthammer and the Geert Wilders perplex….:

[...] ROGER SIMON: Beck, Krauthammer and the Geert Wilders perplex. [...]

Mar 11, 2010 - 1:50 pm 91. Is Wilders wrong? Roger Simon’s take | No Bull. news service.:

[...] friend Roger Simon examines the criticism leveled against Geert Wilders by Glenn Beck and Charles Krauthammer, which I [...]

Mar 11, 2010 - 1:53 pm 92. Carpenter:

Here is a video of Geert Wilders with GBeck at CNN (date ?)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnLS5ioJrJ0

I don’t get how Beck equates this man with Fascism today. It is beyond bizarre.

Didn’t GB admit to being a DRUG ADDICT (and or a alcoholic) years ago? I think he may have had a LSD Flashback. If so it would explain alot past, present, and probably again in the future.

Mar 11, 2010 - 1:56 pm 93. Morton Doodslag:

#88 Dane — can you explain what you mean? Charles Johnson exemplifies the kind of PC tyranny which makes this entire subject nearly impossible to discuss, and I firmly believe Roger Simon was horribly wrong to expel GoV from the PJM bloggosphere. That is a site with much more insight into ground zero in Europe on the Jihad Muslims are waging over there. So Roger’s self avowed “fear” to discuss this matter, as GoV has been doing all along, contributed greatly to the kind of wrong-mindedness typified by Krauthammer et all, wrong-mindedness which he now disavows correctly. What am I missing?

Mar 11, 2010 - 1:59 pm 94. RSJ:

I’d go a step farther and say I believe Wilders is right. The majority of the Mohammedans in America are peaceful because they are a tiny minority. A tiny, outgunned minority, so of course they want to peacefully co-exist. Tip that balance of power the other way and watch what happens. They’d be lopping of infidels heads and blowing things up while demanding their rights as superior beings. Just like they do everywhere else they hold the whip-hand. It is no accident that the Mohammedan lands are nearly devoid of any other competing religion or faith. How many Christian Churches are there in Mecca? How many synagogs in Medina?

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:05 pm 95. truepeers:

In 2003, the Malaysian Prime MInister gave a virulently antisemitic speech to the heads of government gathered for the Organization of the Islamic Conference, and received a standing ovation.

Surely, that tells us something about conventional thinking in the Islamic world. And then there are the endless reports of insane hatred being promoted in the media of the Islamic world, Sunni and Shia. For example, all kinds of ordinary Muslims clearly believe the Israelis are engaged in large-scale harvesting of organs from children.

Roger, one can only conclude that you are right and that Krauthammer is living in denial.

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:13 pm 96. knotacommie:

The problem is, Wilders IS correct. The problem with Islam is that the Koran is NEVER CHALLENGED. The Koran PROMOTES jihad and violent overthrow of non-islamic peoples. The Koran COMMANDS a moslem needs to kill or subjacate non-moslems. Sort of like the lamestream media with leftists. The problem there is simple-the media NEVER challenged ANY of Clintons obvious lies, they NEVER challenged anything about Obama, like the questions about his citizenship, his questionable associations or even his lack of academic records, etc. This is EXACTLY what Wilders is trying to point out. YOU CANNOT SEPERATE ISLAM FROM THE KORAN. ISLAM PREACHES SUPREMACY(remember guys named Hitler and Karl Marx?). After all, didnt the “moderate” moslems like the Turkish premeier just call for jihad against Switzerland? And for what-the Swiss voters voting against the minerat, a sign of Islamic supremacy?

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:18 pm 97. jgreene:

Wilders is ABSOLUTELY correct in his treatment of Islam and Muslims. The real problem is that most people are too lazy to read the Koran and study the teachings of Mohammed. The truth is a devastating indictment of Islam.

There can be no half way between the practice of Islam as commanded in the Koran and Democracy. The only solution to Islamists and Islamofascists and their supporters is to KILL them.

Any Muslim who believes that the Koran is the word of Allah(God)and the truth should be removed from any society that believes in religious tolerance.

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:20 pm 98. pmh:

Yes, the Koran is violent. So too is the Bible a cruel and violent text. Anyone who accepts the literal truth of either book scares me. Wilder’s supporters in the US are for the most part evangelicals who refuse to believe their own religious texts are equally disturbing when interpreted literally.

Thank you Krauthammer for your unwavering voice of reason.

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:35 pm 99. Terrye:

I stopped listening to Beck some time ago, but I do have a lot of respect for Krauthammer. In fact, I was taken aback by what he said about Wilders. I have read about this man and listened to him and I never got the impression that he was a fanatic of any kind. In fact, if the political class of his country had stood up for their own culture and way of life men like Geert Wilders might not have felt the need to take such socalled “extreme” positions. The man has every right to his opinion and he is no Hitler. Europeans are so busy worrying about the next Hitler that they never see the real threats right in front of them.

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:37 pm 100. Vadept:

I’m a right-winged libertarian American living in the Netherlands, and I tell you, Geert Wilders is no hero. He opposed Turkey’s entry into the EU on the sole basis that the EU is christian and Turkey is not. He’s trying to put a prohibitive tax on head scarves (not burkhas, head scarves), and if you watch Fitna (I have), you’ll see that while the first half rightly draws attention to Islamic extremism, but the second half is pure scare mongering and sketchy extrapolation where he suggests that Islam is trying to conquer Europe via immigration.

I too hope they stop this circus and find him innocent. “Hate Speech” laws are pure circumscription of our right to the Freedom of Speech. However, he does not deserve our admiration because he does not respect freedom to speech or freedom of religion.

The real shame is not that Geert Wilders is being silenced. It’s that the Dutch refusal to discuss these issues has meant the far-right has monopolized the subject.

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:47 pm 101. darcy:

To Michael:

The weapons we have in the West (free speech, freedom of religion) are the very tools the enemies of Western Civilization, aka Muslims, employ against us — and they have been succeeding remarkably well, making inroads towards their goal of a worldwide Caliphate.

As for Mr. Beck and Dr. Krauthammer, let me offer this: While I admire, even revere the latter, I suspect the taint of manipulation from on high: Rupert Murdoch is a notorious Islam sympathizer — it’s all “business,” don’t you know.

Do the google research work for yourselves if you doubt me.

Geert Wilders is a hero of the first order. Too bad his detractors and defamers have the free flow of information via the internet to contend with.

Meanwhile, in France we see the first expression of internet censorship rearing its ugly head. These are very dangerous times we’re entering.

Mar 11, 2010 - 2:50 pm 102. WanderingHistorian:

The whole emergence of modern jihadism is precisely because Islam has just gone through a Reformation. The (Holy Roman/Ottoman) Empire has collapsed, the central spiritual authority of the (Pope/Caliph) no longer holds, and a bunch of laypeople are busy reading the (Bible/Koran) literally.

What Islam needs is an Enlightenment, which is a very, very different thing.

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:06 pm 103. mojo:

Islam is a religion of hate and oppression, and has been since it’s founding. It’s the “moderates” who are ignoring their religion’s psychotic tenets, not the “islamists”…

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:07 pm 104. lefroy:

What does any of this matter (Wilders is wrong/Wilders is right)? Shouldn’t he be allowed to say it?

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:08 pm 105. lefroy:

#100 Darcy

Oh really . . Charles Krauthammer buckling under to a directive from Rupert Murdoch. . . come off it. A conspiracy theory worthy of the the lowbrow left.

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:10 pm 106. Jimmy J.:

This is at the core of our problem with Islam. Is the problem Islamism or Islam?
I will believe it is Islamism when so-called moderate Muslims stand up and denounce the intolerance and violence that is done in the name of Islam everyday all over the world.

Christianity used to be a religion of violence and intolerance – The Crusades, the Inquisition, the Thirty Years War and more attest to that. Some, such as Christopher Hitchins and Richard Dawkins seem unable to forget that bloody past in spite of the Reformation that took place. At least Hitchins does not believe Islam is peaceful or tolerant, as too many people seem to.

Most people in the U.S. today accept the idea of religious tolerance and religious belief as an agency of peace. Unfortunately, far too few have the necessary knowledge of Islam’s true tenents. If they did, they would not be like Krauthammer and define Islamism as the problem.

A reformation of Islam would require large segments of Muslims to openly reject the parts of the Koran that call for violent jihad, and intolerance of infidels. Can that happen without all out war? That’s the $64 question.

IMO, our leaders, when they talk of Islam, should ask why the Imams and leaders of the “Religion of Peace” do not renounce the vision of world conquest and become a real religion of tolerance and peace. Calling them out on this would at least let them know that we are not taken in by their deceptions.

Yes, this is an issue that needs to be out in the open and discussed freely and fully.

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:20 pm 107. Yehudit:

“How many knew that the Saudi’s own 7% of News Corp? Do we believe that Rupert is in a position to censor his guest hosts in some way? That would be an interesting theme to explore”

It is not only possible but probable that Saudi investors will pressure Murdoch to pressure Fox reporters and pundits to adhere to some party line. However, I can’t imagine Beck or Krauthammer bowing to this. They are both too independent and ornery. I am confident that their opinions are their own. (Whether I agree with them is another thing entirely.)

However it makes sense to keep an eye on Fox for both biased pundits and biased reporting, just as we do with the other networks. Do any pundits from any network express the more hardline opinions in this post and comments? Which ones adhere to political correctness in all their reporting or opinion on the topic? Which other networks also have Islamist investors?

Most of us like Fox because it is an exception to liberal bias and Obama worship. But as an organization it is as susceptible to influence and pressure as any other.

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:23 pm 108. Beck, Krauthammer and the Geert Wilders perplex « THE BLACK KETTLE:

[...] MORE [...]

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:24 pm 109. stuart williamson:

It is bizarre to claim a distinction between Islam and Muslimism. If one does not accept the word of the Quran, absolutely, one is not a Muslim. The Quran is the rule book for every aspect of the lives of its believers. There are no degrees of belief, no Reform branch. A Muslim may feign assimilation in a multicultural society for economic and social reasons, but will not reject his faith. We look in vain for “moderate” Muslims. To criticize the zealotry of terrorists would make one an apostate, and the fate of an apostate is worse than that of anyone born an infidel. The Great Day of Judgment looms always in the back of the Muslim mind.

There is not a living follower of Islam, not even your charming neighborhood tailor, who does not believe, totally, that Islam is destined to rule the world. There is no true Muslim who does not place his faith in the Quran above his loyalty to the nation in which he lives.

Before defending the rights of the non-existent moderate Muslims, Americans should keep in mind that THEOCRACY IS THE CENTRAL PRINCIPLE OF ISLAM -180 degrees from the principles of our Republic. They are unassimilible and doctrinairily intolerant.

The Europeans are already too late in coming to this realization, and Wilders deserves the full support of all believers in freedom from serfdom.

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:37 pm 110. Edmund onward James:

And this is one of the problems of infidel. Who do we declare a war on? What ideology? The Islamists know, they have submitted.

Daniel Pipes said, “Militant Islam (Muslims) is the problem; moderate Islam (Muslims)is the solution.”

I say Islam is the problem. Reform may be too late. How do I know? After 9/11 I read a book called The Devil’s Horsemen, about the Mongols, which prompted me to research Chingis Khan and the Mongol Nation, which led to the study of the Middle East.

The Great Khan desired to reconnect the silk routes, better known as the Silk Road, so he sent emissaries to the Shah of Khwarizm. Alas the Muslim Warlord returned their heads. Khan had a meeting with elders and tribal leaders, and decided to send Muslim ambassadors. But, once more the Shah returned their heads. The rest is viloent history.

Mention Chingis Khan and the Mongols to Islamists, even moderate Muslims and watch their reactions.

My point is, even in our time we must continue to retain military power or else we will all be part of the new Caliphate.

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:42 pm 111. Thomass:

“If you agree with Mirengoff – and I do -, it is important to support Wilders in his trial, if only as a supporter of fundamental free speech.”

I do support Wilders for free speech reasons but Mirengoff’s point is weak imo. The bible has a lot of out there punishments for things suggested too… but I don’t condemn Christianity for them… so, I’m going to use the same standard for Muslims. It’s possible they can ignore the jihad talk the same way Christians ignore things.

As to Goldberg, I did read his book.. and he plays a rhetorical game with Fascism. He ‘defines his terms’ such that it is left wing. Doesn’t mean that Fascism is not a thing of the ‘right’ in Europe (I think he’d even agree with that). In the end, the Euro left and right are A: different in some ways and B: hate each other (while they do have many links…)…. and both hate the center… which, by Euro standards, are the classical liberals, parliamentarians, et cetera….. which most American ‘conservatives’ and ‘right wingers’ fall into… while our own domestic ‘liberals’ are leftist by Euro standards…

Mar 11, 2010 - 3:49 pm 112. darcy:

#96, knotacommie:

You are exactly right! And I suspect some manipulation shenanigans handed down from Murdoch himself, a Muslim sympathizer (do the google research yourself) for the slant of both Beck’s and Krauthammer’s spin on G. Wilders.

Otherwise, it is inexplicable how a mind — and character — like Krauthammer’s could hang Wilders out to dry.

And Vadept: hmm. Scare mongering. Is that like when Paul Revere rode through colonial villages warning, “The British are coming?”

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:00 pm 113. DP111:

Two points

1.Muslim scholars agree that there is no distinction to be made between ‘Islamism’ and ‘Islam’ – there is just one Islam. In fact, they have always maintained, that such a distinction, has been invented by Western commentators and politicians for their own purposes.

2. Are we prepared to bet the survival of the house of the West on whether there is, or is not such a distinction, and if the moderate Islam wins out.

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:09 pm 114. Seth:

RSJ—I believe that you are absolutely correct in saying that the small percentage of Muslims in our population (a percentage exaggerated, by the way, by CAIR, the Council on American Islamic Relations, according to the Justice Department indictment in the recent terrorism funding trial of the Holy Land Foundation, a front organization of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood, and an unindicted co-conspirator) behave only because they are not yet strong enough to make much trouble or to try to take over. I recently saw a chart (which I can not now find) delineating the percentage of Muslims in various countries populations, and as the percentage of Muslims rises, Muslim violence against unbelievers rises rather sharply.

The inevitable progression goes something like this:

A small number of Muslims arrive in a majority “unbeliever” country, set up a Mosque and proceed to live in a geographically compact, inward looking community. They are apparently law abiding, but Saudi provided religious textbooks tell them that, as a minority of Muslims in the unbeliever country full of “ignorance” (Jahiliyya) and with what Islam regards as an illegitimate government and laws, they should view themselves as “scouts behind enemy lines,” that they should erect “an unbreachable wall of hatred and contempt against all unbelievers,” and that to take any unbelievers as friends or to participate in unbeliever life is a betrayal of Islam and the road to apostasy, for which the Qur’an’s penalty is death (see, for instance http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/19/AR2006051901769.html and http://www.hudson.org/files/pdf_upload/Excerpts_from_Saudi_Textbooks_715.pdf ).

The community, still geographically concentrated by design to concentrate Muslim orthodoxy, and economic and political power, grows by attracting more immigrants and due to Muslim’s extraordinarily high birth rate. Social services are gamed to get the naïve, uninformed, gullible and politically correct unbelievers to pay for Muslim’s multiple wives (i.e. “cousins”) and many children, and to allow many of the men the leisure to concentrate on following Islam, and to engage in the occasional petty crime. There are likely wife beatings and later even honor killings that are never reported to the police, or are ignored by authorities so as not to appear to be unwelcoming, “racist,” “prejudiced,” or insensitive to cultural differences. Petty crime to support the Jihad picks up (see the Muslim Palestinian community in Dearborn, Michigan and reports of identity theft and illegal cigarette sales rackets, see http://policy-traccc.gmu.edu/resources/publications/Shelley_Melzer.pdf). Incidents of Muslims attacking unbelievers are passed off as the “isolated” acts of “loners” and “nut jobs.” There is a annual tithe (zakat) prescribed by the Qur’an that goes to support Islam but may, in fact, end up supporting terrorism.

The community grows and other such communities are established elsewhere. Muslims start to get involved in politics, support certain unbeliever politicians (see the powerful, far Left Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee John Conyers, representing the heavily Muslim areas of Dearborn and Detroit Michigan, whose Congressional website is in English and Arabic), and Muslims may at this point start to agitate for special “accommodations” to their religious practices and beliefs, and against those of the host country that they find “offensive” (see for instance the Muslim only “Prayer Rooms” and ritual foot washing facilities (Wudu)–usually paid for at public expense–that are starting to spring up at colleges and universities and at airports, and the “Muslim women only” exercise and pool times that are also starting to appear at Universities like Yale.

The community grows in strength and agitates even more aggressively and stridently for “accommodations,” uses the legal system of the host country to harass and intimidate that host country and its majority unbeliever population, and to attempt to roll back unbeliever customs and laws—so, for instance, there was the recent refusal of Muslim cab drivers at Minneapolis—St. Paul airport to transport unbelievers who had alcohol with them, or handicapped people with service dogs (Muhammad hated dogs), and the recent multiple “flying Imam” incidents–there are plays to the liberality and “fairness” of the host country, and at this point Muslims may even run members for elected offices (see the recently elected Muslim Congressman Keith Ellis, representing the Muslim concentrations in Minnesota (who recently went on an all expenses paid pilgrimage to Mecca–the Hajj, that he at first said he paid for himself, but which turned out to have been paid for by the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, the MAS also reportedly a Muslim Brotherhood Front group), and there is also now Muslim Congressman Andre Carson representing Indianapolis.

Meanwhile the Muslim propaganda campaign of proselytizing (Da’wa) and deception rolls on, pushing Islam as “a religion of Peace,” and characterizing all those who object to Islam and its practices as “racists”–although Islam is not a race but a religion, with members from many races (who are, unless they are Arabs, from the subject peoples—Persians, Africans, Turks, Egyptians, Indians, Iraqis and Eastern Europeans–conquered in past centuries by Muslim armies, and forcibly converted to Islam. Increasing “lone wolf” and more organized group Jihad attacks against unbelievers are still ignored or covered up in the interests of “harmony.—We are about at this level now.–

When the Muslim community starts of approach 10% of the population violent, open clashes with unbelievers start to happen, and as the percentage climbs toward 20%, then 30% and higher there are broad based and constant Muslim attacks on all aspects of unbeliever civilization, custom and law, and “isolate attacks on individual unbelievers or groups of unbelievers escalates to armed Muslim guerilla warfare, and by 50% an attempt to take over the unbeliever state is well under way.

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:14 pm 115. Leatherneck:

Two religions in one? On one hand we have those who follow Mohammed. On the other we have those who are peaceful, and do not follow Mohammed’s example of conquest, murder, and rape.

Which section is Apostate?

Quick, put Gert on trial for telling the truth, and delete Leatherneck’s post before more Americans get the memo.

Now, let’s all get back to putting our heads in the sand.

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:19 pm 116. Maureen Martin:

A brilliant column. Thank you for it. It takes courage to admit one’s own fears and the rationalizations constructed to allay them.

It might help if we could stop thinking of Islam as a religion instead of a political program for domination that uses religion to legitimize its lust for conquest.

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:28 pm 117. Don Rodrigo:

I have no fundamental problem with Wilders in the current context. I remember when Solzhenytsin was dismissed as a “fascist” by the Carter WH, and how 60’s leftists shrugged off the Hungarian revolution and the Prague Spring as the work of “fascist revisionists” or something. In all those cases the single most fundamental point was missed by the “edumacated” class: those individuals and entities were against the same great evil force that we were, and actually put their lives and fortunes on the line.

Tea Partiers are reviled, and the detractors love to single out the occasional eccentric who shows up at rallies as George Washington or Alice in Wonderland, and then tell us that all the participants are wingnuts. I’ll take my patriots and freedom-lovers warts and all. At some later date, when we’ve rolled back the leftist and Islamic excesses, we freedom-lovers can squabble among each other. ‘Till then, I’ll live with any quirks and eccentricities that my allies may exhibit.

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:34 pm 118. Donna V.:

I wish Wilders was wrong. However, I noticed a while back that reality frequently doesn’t conform to what I would like to be true.

Roger wrote:

If Wilders is correct, and the line between Islam and Islamism is as blurred as the Dutchman posits, then we in the West are in very deep trouble indeed. And nothing short of an Islamic reformation will solve it.

Well, here’s a thought guaranteed to depress you even more, Roger (sorry). What if radical Islamism is the reformation? After all, the Protestant reformation purported to take Christianity back to its early days and to purify it of its’ pagan elements. Is that not what the radical Islamists believe they are doing today? Forget tolerance of other faiths, forget rights for women – those are alien Western concepts, utterly unIslamic.

I have a good friend who is a Somalian. She loves America and hates Islam with a passion (she underwent female circumcision – sans anesthesia – when she was 12 and developed an infection which rendered her sterile. Get her on the subject and she makes the late Oriana Fallaci sound like Little Bo Peep.) Another Muslim friend, a physician from Iran, is pro-Israel and one of the nicest guys you’d ever want to meet. However, neither of them are practicing Muslims. They’re also not spring chickens. They are not the future of Islam.

I have friends who are practicing Christians and Jews. I am a believing Catholic, although not a very good one. But Muslims who really take their faith seriously by definition have no desire to be friends with infidels. Westerners frequently point to Muslims of their acquaintance and say “You can’t say the religion is bad because look at Abdullah, he’s a good Muslim and he’s a fine fellow.” Abdullah isn’t religious; he never goes to a mosque, he has a drink and eats a pork chop every now and then. He’s exactly what the “reformers” in Islam are reacting against. From all accounts, the older generation of Muslims in Europe are the Westernized, secular moderates; it’s their children who are purifying the faith by returning to headcoverings, halal, and such charming customs as honor killings.

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:38 pm 119. Don Rodrigo:

Christianity used to be a religion of violence and intolerance – The Crusades, the Inquisition, the Thirty Years War and more attest to that.

One quibble on the Crusades: they were and understandable pushback by the Christian world considering the nature of the times. The heart of the earliest Muslim conquests were formerly Crhistian-dominated lands. One of the things that made the Dark Ages dark was this relentless push by Islam, at a time when Chritianity hadn’t even solidified its hold on Northern Europe. With the Crusades the Christian world retaliated when the ascendant Turkish Muslims cut off Christian access to the Holy Land.

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:40 pm 120. David W. Lincoln:

98. pmh: & 100. Vadept: & 106. Jimmy J.:

Is there no such thing as objective reality?

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:48 pm 121. Don Rodrigo:

Wilders is essentially right about Islam. We keep hearing about moderate Muslims, but where are they for all practical purposes? I am speaking as someone who encounters truly moderate Muslims all the time, yet their numbers and their views don’t seem to matter or register at all. That being the case, Islam remains problematic. The Muslim world was moving haltingly into the 20th century before the revival of fundamentalism, and is now sliding backwards, plain and simple. If they don’t soon have the equivalent of the Christian reformation, then they will only become a bigger problem. Would I like to be wrong? You bet, but I don’t see that happening.

The fact that they’ve never had the equivalent of the Protestant reformation, and only had serious schisms among fundamentalists early on, speaks volumes about how hidebound Islam is. It’s also worth noting that Islam has allowed or tolerated ancient practices in various regions it dominates that the civilized world finds abhorrent: child brides (complete with consummation), slavery, and culrurally-encouraged pedophilia. A “religion” that can’t evolve beyond a Bronze Age world in the 21st century is not a healthy thing for the rest of us.

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:52 pm 122. RE:

I too would like to register my disagreement with Krauthhammer, Beck, and Kristol. While they usually make sense, they’ve got this one dead wrong.

Mar 11, 2010 - 4:59 pm 123. Don Rodrigo:

The majority of the Mohammedans in America are peaceful because they are a tiny minority. A tiny, outgunned minority, so of course they want to peacefully co-exist.

It’s a manifestation of the “early arrival” phenomenon in migration and settlement. The earliest European settlers in N. America had a mixed, but often cordial relationship with the American Indians they encountered and interacted with. A few Europeans even “went native.” As European numbers grew, the “late arrival” phenomenon took hold, as the Europeans — secure in their greater numbers and the certitude of their “cultural superiority” — they became hostile and overbearing with the indigenous people.

Greater influxes of Muslims into the U.S., combined with the enormous leverage that the victim industry and political correctness provide, would enable Muslim communities to act as if they were a majority. Apparently, according to accounts, this is happening in some parts of Europe. You no longer have to be engulfed by assertive, obnoxious, intolerant minorities for them to act like engulfers.

Mar 11, 2010 - 5:05 pm 124. Samson:

remember Charles Krauthammer left Rushdie out to dry too.

Mar 11, 2010 - 5:13 pm 125. Leatherneck:

Meanwhile, in Africa 500 Christians were murdered by the ROP Gert is talking about.

I wonder, was it the extremeists following Mohammed who did the murder, or was it the Apostates?

Mar 11, 2010 - 5:16 pm 126. wtd:

Though I absolutely do not agree with their characterization of Wilders, Krauthammer and Beck may have worked from information not yet publicized at the time of their statements.

There appears to be some coordinated effort in this:

Exhibit One: US: Europe biased against Muslims

and in the
UK, the CentreRight Party states at their website yesterday:

“If the Jamaat e Islami or the Muslim Brotherhood wanted to make representations, they should be allowed to do so. . . .Could such an enquiry be exploited by Islamists? Yes. Is that a good reason for not having it? No. Why? Because the problem of the hatred of Muslims and anti-Muslim violence, in particular, is grave. It’s a wound that can only fester. Parliament has a role to play in drawing the poison.”

Mar 11, 2010 - 5:18 pm 127. Chattanooga Jim:

Wilders rhetoric may be over the top, but the underlying message is absolutely correct. Islam is a take-no-prisoners religion and it is in the process of destroying Western Europe as fundamentalist Muslims gain population there. They (the fundamentalists) can see how weak the governments are in Western Europe and they have continued to intimidate with violence the sheep-like populace. Fortunately, like the tea parties in the U.S., some of the Euros are standing up to the Islamic bullies. I would rather it be the mainstream folks, but at least Wilders is showing some backbone. I hope others follow his example.

Mar 11, 2010 - 5:35 pm 128. Stelwagen:

Beck and Krauthammer are wrong in their criticism of Geert Wilders as they both adhere to the wrong premise that the majority of average Muslim believers will be able to keep the radical Islam ‘in check’. A smaller group of fanatics- due to the use of extreme measures ( unnecessary to point out which those could be ) are always superior to the masses, as we have seen in the past.
It would serve Beck and Krauthammer well to take a closer look at the process of how the European continent is being encapsulated by the Islam while in the meantime the wake-up calls are being muffled by individuals who should know better, S

Mar 11, 2010 - 5:57 pm 129. stuart williamson:

The great difference between the “Holy Books” of Judaism, Christianity and Islam:

Judaism and the “Old Testament” are historical records of the development of a moral philosophy, centered on dialog, frequently argumentative, between Hebrew “prophets” and their God. The Jews feel free to challenge both God and the prophets (its what accounts for their mental achievements) = Encouragement of inquiry; acceptance, if distain, of other faiths.

The Christian faith (New Testament) is based on the life of a challenging “prophet”, a Jew who believed his Priesthood had become obsessed by ritual, and who taught a faith based on acceptance of differences and frailties and love, even of strangers.= Encouragement of inquiry and interpretation; Universal tolerance.

Islam is based on a “written to order” , militarily formulated, Manual of Instruction – strict commandments on what to do and what not to do, governing every aspect of its believers lives, right down to the details of sexual behavior and treatment of animals, including women and dogs. It permits no change or challenge in any detail, regardless of the passage of centuries and advances in science and technology. = Total obedience to theological authority; no questioning; complete intolerance.

Why any reasonable society would defend inflexible intolerance on the basis of “moral equivalence” is as incomprehensible to me as it is to Geert Wilders. But I wouldn’t ban the book.

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:22 pm 130. TexPat:

I agree that Beck and CK are wrong on this. Geert Wilders will go down as one of the first to stand up to Islam. He is a great man. There’s no doubt for me that it is coming down to Islam versus the rest of the world. There will be no conferences or legit treaties. The war will be to the death and has already begun.

Geert’s position is correct. Muslim immigration must cease, because the majority of Muslims have no idea how wrong Islam is. They have been brainwashed from an early age and only a small fraction can ever be transformed back into reality. Once they get a foothold in a town or city, the Muslims drive everyone else out creating “no go zones”. Then they start mandating change that accomodates their Islamic needs at the expense of everyone else. Why would any free, non-muslim want to let Muslims in?

Geert merely speaks the truth. I’ve always felt no one has the ability to suppress the truth. As the riots continue/increase the world will continue to realize Geert is right!

We must all prepare for more difficult times ahead regarding Islam.

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:37 pm 131. michiganruth:

this is so disturbing. I really admire Charles Krauthammer. I also admit to loving Beck, but he’s not what I’d call a brilliant intellect. but Dr. K…he’s a genius, IMHO.

and I also greatly admire Geert Wilders, a very brave man who’s already seen two of his countrymen murdered by Islam and must live under guard because of the threat to him.

I really hope the above posters are wrong about the Fox/Saudi confluence, but that’s what they’re saying over at newsbusters too.

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:48 pm 132. jeff:

I suspect there are many intolerant commands and dictates to be found in the Koran, but just as in the Bible, I suspect there can be found an opposite command and dictate for every intolerant one. In Christian Science for example, adherents are encouraged to rely on the Bible to heal themselves. In practice, Christian Scienists quietly rely on modern medicine all the time. What’s intolerant is to say that because of these potentially dangerous tenants, the overall religion deserves utter condemnation. That I believe tends to drive the believers into defensive posturers. You’ll never get far fighting one’s faith with logical arguments. Does it make sense to argue a point of view that Jesus walking on the water was an exaggeration and therefore casts doubt on the veracity of other stories of Jesus, for example, being the Son of God?

Mar 11, 2010 - 6:50 pm 133. Leatherneck:

Well jeff 132,

We really need to watch out for those Christians blowing themselves up, cutting off heads, and raping mens wifes. The Amish, now there are some really nasty Chriatians.

Those Muslims following Mohammed are sheep next to the Amish!

BTW jeff, thank your lucky stars you can post, and believe as you wish. If Islam has it’s way, you will be on your knees worshiping a moon god called allah.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:13 pm 134. michael reed:

Mr. Simon,
Thank you for an insightful column and I agree with your opinion of Mr./Dr. Krauthhammer’s subconcious reason for the distancing. And I would also say that it is something more. The inherent “goodness” of the Dr. and most Westerners who find it very hard to absorb the idea that something, anything that includes so many people can be so very evil. As we’ve seen in modern history, people of good will try (too hard) to see the good in ever human movement (social & political)… simply because they are good people and badly want to believe others are as well. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro, etc., etc. were all at one time and often by many lauded for their potential to lead humanity upwards and onwards to a fairer more peaceful world. And not just these individuals, but their belief systems as well. Nazism, Communism, and all “isms” have all promised some greater good for all “deserving” folks (and don’t we all think we’re in That Group?).

One hates to give in to the thought that a once seemingly beautiful ideology/religion is, in reality, fouls and rotten to the core. And whose full evil potential, at the heart of it’s teachings, had simply not been fully realized until now.

I too would prefer it not to be so, but it’s very hard to pretend and whistle past the graveyard in this case. As with Russians, Chinese, Germans & other peoples; they don’t have to be full partners in their leaderships evil intent to do evil on their behalf. Those not completely condemning Islam/Islamism will, one day, be the willing tools of their monstrous leaders’ monstrous actions. It’s well documented in history already.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:20 pm 135. RKV:

“the sine qua non of conservative columnists” – Krauthammer? I think not. He can’t even read the plain text of the 2nd Amendment and get it right. He is vastly over-rated IMO. Call me a one note charley, but if you miss the nexus of trust and power in the US Constitution, and Krauthammer does, then you’re off base. For my part the situation is VERY simple with respect to muslims. When the Saudi’s permit Christian churches in Mecca, then we permit mosques in the US. Not before. I’d embrace a European policy that was the same. All the mosques that exist in our country are officially closed until we have reciprocity from the Arabs. That is true tolerance. Meanwhile we better drill for our own oil, and build our own nukes. As Ledeen says, faster please.

Mar 11, 2010 - 7:40 pm 136. jes:

Wilders is correct – the essence of Islam is jihad. Yet it seems that a lot of people including Beck & Krauthammer believe that Muslims who are not actively engaging in or publicly supporting violent jihad are ‘moderate Muslims’ and do not pose a danger to western countries. But these so-called ‘moderate Muslims’ are silently supporting jihad because that is what their religion teaches and expects of them. Once a country has a significant Muslim population the balance shifts – the previously silent ‘moderate Muslims’ now have the power to change the society they are living in. This is what is happening in Europe at the moment. The ‘moderate Muslims’ with their high birth rate are long-term more dangerous to Western societies than the so-called Islamists. The extremists get caught or killed but the moderates just keep on reproducing until they have the numbers – and the power.

Mar 11, 2010 - 8:39 pm 137. Pragmatist:

jeff: You absolute balloon. The Bible is DESCRIPTIVE and the Koran is PRESCRIPTIVE but it seems you are too ignorant to know the difference. The Bible was written by MEN inspired by God but according to Muslims the Koran is ‘the ACTUAL and UNALTERABLE word of God’ so no room for compromise or reformation there either and all its antisemitism, misogyny, violence, Arab Supremacism and repetitive nonsense is therefore down to Allah. On another point Christians follow the teachings of the NEW TESTAMENT not just the HISTORICAL lessons of the Bible and comparisons between the NEW TESTAMENT and the Koran are what is pertinent not the Bible and the Koran but it seems you are ignorant of that too. The Koran CANNOT be both an HISTORICAL record AND ‘for ALL men for ALL time’ as it also claims itself to be and this is just another corner Muslims have painted themselves in to by their lack of logical ability.

Mar 11, 2010 - 9:28 pm 138. Thomas:

I see two perennial issues here. The first is that whatever it is we call the “right” or “conservatism” always seems have trouble understanding the concept of “my enemy of my enemy is my friend”, or that a person facing a “hate speech” trial for criticizing Islam in any part of the Western world deserves unconditional support no matter what his broader political positions may be. The second thing to remember is that Krauthammer (perhaps not so much Beck, though who influences Fox and his producers influences him) is a neoconservative, not a conservative. Under that worldview, no group, including Muslims, no matter how radical, may be excluded from unlimited immigration into Western nations, and the only means to deal with Muslim hostility is to bomb and occupy Muslim countries until they stop hating us.

Mar 11, 2010 - 9:49 pm 139. EscapeVelocity:

I havent read all the comments, but I just wanted to state that Krauthammer is wrong, or rather he has defined a neologism to a very narrow definition that is not widely held.

“Islamism is an ideology of a small minority which holds that the essence of Islam is jihad, conquest, forcing people into accepting a certain very narrow interpretation [of Islam].”

Islamism is not limited to violent jihad. It is encompases Muslim (Islamic) Supremacism as well as the imposition of Shariah law (in European countries).

When this more correct definition is used, the small minority becomes a strong majority (of Muslims).

Violent Terrorists – Small Minority 5%
Think Violent Terrorism is Legitmate – 15%
Dont support Violence, but support fundamentalist Islam as political agenda – 30%
Support Shariah Law in European Countries – 70%
Looking forward to Muslims becoming the majority population of European countries so as to control the government and make law – 90%

The fascile argument that Krauthammer made is based on wishful thinking as you have surmised…and its an attractive proposition, to define away a very serious problem.

Another observation that I would like to make, is that Krauthammer (and Kristol) are Jews, and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand that the vast majority of Jews are extremely suspicious and even fearful of European Ethno-Religio Nationalism. So any expression of that by European politicians, especially those who are becoming more and more popular is bound to raise Jewish hackles.

That being said, Geert Wilders and his PVV party are not the same as some of the more odious Nationalist Parties in Europe. He is libertarian and liberal, promotes tolerance, but not tolerance of intolerance.

Pretty disappointed in Krauthammer, here. I must say.

Mar 11, 2010 - 10:07 pm 140. Thermo:

Before passing judgement, listen to this by Geert Wilders on Free Speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_8uyn4gomU

Mar 11, 2010 - 10:25 pm 141. Sim One:

Mr Beck supports Apartheid & Segregation

If a society has different rules and laws for different groups of citizens based on either race, religion or gender and forbids these groups to mingle in public, would that not be called Apartheid and Segregation?

Could Mr. Beck explain to the world why a religion that pro pones the aforementioned should not be criticised, not be confronted, not be boycotted? We had “the guts” to boycott South Africa because we could grow those oranges ourselves and now we faulter at taking a stance against Saudi Arabia et al, because of oil, but they are putting into practice the same repulsive ideas as South Africa’s apartheids regime (including keeping slaves).

Has the free West become complete spineless in less than 25 years?

I cannot think of Obama’s bow in front of the Saudi king without getting sick to the stomach and am truly disappointed he was allowed back into the country after that. This episode, hopefully of a short nature, has to be the all time low in the history of the US. But now seeing Mr. Beck in action, I’m afraid it hasn’t hit rock bottom yet.

Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela, would have never been the catalysts they were if it weren’t for the support they got from far beyond the confines of their race. If it wasn’t for that support their pleads would have fallen dead. In a similar way the free West needs to make clear that it cannot tolerate the intolerance that comes with Islam. Only then will it be possible for Islam’s Rosas, Martins and Nelsons to stand up (or sit down ) and reach out to freedom.

If we are not the bright shiny light of freedom, we don’t deserve it either.

Mar 11, 2010 - 10:26 pm 142. Pete:

I rarely disagree with Dr. Krauthammer, but in this dispute, Geert Wilders is correct. There is no such thing as “moderate” Islam, there is only Islam, as set forth in the Koran. Numerous clerics within the Muslim world confirm this. Moreover, Krauthammer neglects an important aspect of the problem. He defines the violent fraction of Muslim peoples as “Islamists,” those who commit acts of political violence and terrorism, but gives the rest of the umma a pass as being, by definition, moderates. This is incorrect; some underknown fraction of the mostly-silent Muslim majority are active sympathizers of their violent bretheren, others are inactive sympathizers, others are uncommitted, and still others are peaceful and wish no conflict with the infidel. There is also a small group of indeterminate size wishing to “reform” Islam into a more pluralistic religion that acknowledges other faiths and ways of life. There are perhaps one billion Muslims in the world; apart from the violence of known, declared jihadists, no one of whom I am aware has any hard data on how the rest of the community of the umma fall along the continuum from hardcore jihadist to peace-loving reformist. That means no one, including Krauthammer, has a precise fix on what and who constitute this threat. Krauthammer is usually the antithesis of political correctess, but not this time; he caved in on this one. This observer is more inclined to trust Geert Wilders for another reason: he has skin in the game. Wilders has lived among Muslims in Holland, and has seen the Islamification of Europe first hand, and has also been subjected to death threats. Has Krauthammer that breadth of experience? I doubt it.

Mar 11, 2010 - 10:35 pm 143. Pete:

Dane: “Hate speech’ restrictions on speech inherently prevent the exercise of free speech – but by the same token, attempts to ban a religion or religious text because it is ‘a political movement’ by nature is diametrically opposed to the exercise of freedom of religion.” Your love of relgious freedom is commendable, it really is… but falling back on theory does nothing to halt the spread of what is obviously an expansionist geopolitical ideology masquerading as a pure religious faith. Fundementally, Islam as it is currently practiced in much of the world is incompatible with western traditions of freedom of speech and expression; Arabic (the founding language of Islam) contains no word directly translated into ‘freedom,’ their word for it means ’submission.’ Islam is a comprehensive belief system which governs every aspect of a believer’s life, not simply in the religious sphere, but everywhere. There is no such thing as a separation between church and the state in Islam; they are one and the same. Within 10-20 years, if not sooner, many of us in the western Judeo-Christian nations will be faced with a choice – push back against Islam, or let it take over our societies and abolish the freedoms won over the last 1000 years. I know how I will choose, do you?

Sim One, very well said “…In a similar way the free West needs to make clear that it cannot tolerate the intolerance that comes with Islam. Only then will it be possible for Islam’s Rosas, Martins and Nelsons to stand up (or sit down ) and reach out to freedom.
If we are not the bright shiny light of freedom, we don’t deserve it either.”

Mar 11, 2010 - 10:48 pm 144. Ronald Sevenster:

The author says that Wilders faces “the bizarre possibility of being elected Prime Minister while being convicted of hate speech”. This is an incorrect statement about the Dutch election and cabinet formation process. In the Netherlands Prime Ministers are not elected. Only representatives of the Lower Chamber (or 2nd Chamber) are elected by the people. Cabinet Formation is a matter of negotiations between the elected Representatives of the diverse political parties. The course of this process is determined by the Monarch (Queen Beatrix) on advice of the major political leaders. In the final stage of the negotiations the parties involved in the coalition that is being formed are to agree on who gets a position as minister of the Crown and who is to be the Prime Minister. All the ministerial positions, including that of the Prime Minister, are part of political negatiations between the coalition partners. I’m myself a Dutchman and I know how it works. Wilders may pose himself as a candidate to be elected Prime Minister (his “Wilders for President” slogan), but it simple doesn’t work that way here. We have no Presidents, and our Prime Minister is never elected. That means that even if his Freedom Party will be the winner of the upcoming elections, Wilders will have to go through long and exhausting negotiations with major and far more experienced players in the field, before he can even dream of a ministerial seat in the Cabinet. And at any moment his partners will deem expedient the Cabinet will fall and whole process of elections and negotiations will have to start over again. This can be repeated endlessly, until the electorate becomes so tired that they abstain from voting for Wilders and return to the established political parties. Things like these have happened before, and the establishment knows how to deal with radical forces by a tactics of tiring them out. That is one of the secrets of long-term Dutch political stability.

Mar 11, 2010 - 11:04 pm 145. Pete:

Charles Stevens (#49), “Wilders is not only correct in his assessment, he is correct in his solution. All Muslim immigration must be stopped immediately. I will go further… there must be a policy firmly stating that all Muslims who already reside here must renounce Sharia, the hadiths, and non-abrogated parts of the Koran, otherwise they should emigrate.”

Charles, well-said, sir… I have thought much the same to myself on more than one occasion. I’m with you all the way, but such a common-sense measure stands a snowball’s chance in you-know-where of being passed these days. Our politicians lack Wilders’ spine; I cannot think of a single one who’d introduce such a measure in Congress, and very few who’d vote for it.

Mar 11, 2010 - 11:06 pm 146. Dee:

I wonder about FOX news …something must be going on there that we don’t understand. Glen Beck used to talk very anti-Islam. He was so interested in the Islam-West conflict that I decided to start watching him . Now- no more ! He seems scared to talk against Islam the way he used to. I stopped watching him also because he acts too damned silly to take seriously . And his shows have become so boring I can’t bear it

Charles Krauthammer really acts like he’s forgotten his stance against Islamism also. I’m really disappointed in him. Isn’t there anyone around in the news who we can believe in ?

Mar 12, 2010 - 12:21 am 147. wellington:

This case mirrors the strange relationship of “European” law with National Socialism and Communism. In many European countries Nazi symbols and Nazi speech are outlawed and rare while Communist symbols and speech are legal and common.

Personally, I think they are wrong about outlawing stuff. I believe we are better off knowing our Nazis and Commies. There is also no doubt that our system (still) promotes a more robust polity that is less susceptible to totalitarian ideas. But if Nazism is outlawed in much of Europe, why not Communism?

I know, I know. But imagine that you are a principled European. The situation leaves you with two options, one timid, the other radical:

1. Demand the outlawing of Communism to uphold equality before the law.
2. Demand the legalization of Nazism and striking down the law.

If you care about your lifestyle, both options suck. The timid one will get you grief from libertarians, socialists, Communists (and Americans), the other from nearly everyone but the Nazis. Either way you get smeared. That’s why prudent Europeans won’t touch it with a 3-meter pole.

Wilders is clearly not prudent. But is he wrong about Muhammad’s Kampf?

Mar 12, 2010 - 1:01 am 148. darcy:

To michiganruth, #131:
You may be interested in Diana West’s column of yesterday over at Townhall.com; she fleshes out the Fox/Saudi connection.

She is also consistently wise and courageous in her efforts to inform her readers of the dangers to Western Civilization posed by Islam and its adherents.

And to Roger Simon: Thank you for YOUR comments and the opportunity they give us respond on this issue. (I love Whittle!! Articulate, passionate, and just a wonderful patriot!)

Mar 12, 2010 - 1:29 am 149. Judy, NYC:

twisted pathological lying, is the only voice we hear. otherwise, the blanket of silence has fallen everywhere over everything.
the support for wilders is the same support for israel is the same support for american exceptionalism.

geert wilders is a courageous man and a true leader. alone, he has carried the day.

we are lost. we are vulnerable. we have no geert wilders. just cowardly, weak, frightened little puppets, easily terrorized, and eager to bow before the foul and odious islamics.

this craven silence is shaped by barry from chicago, cheered on by his minions.

Mar 12, 2010 - 1:39 am 150. Educating Charles Krauthammer on Islam—Again:

[...] these replies to Krauthammer’s misguided remarks on Fox News by Mark Steyn, Paul Mirengoff, and Roger Simon, as well as these particularly trenchant rebuttals (here, and here) by my colleague Diana [...]

Mar 12, 2010 - 5:41 am 151. rbrandt:

Great column Roger. It was upsetting to hear Krauthammer say Wilders was wrong.

Most would not agree on the book banning issue, even for tracts as despicable as Mein Kampf and the Koran. However, I have never understood our military handing out copies of the Koran (with gloves on their hands) to radical Islamists in Gitmo. Would this not be the equivalent of providing Mein Kampf to German POW’s?

To me, it is just another indication of the false hope that Wilders is wrong. I am glad Wilders is there warning us, we need to listen.

Mar 12, 2010 - 6:02 am 152. wtd:

To #50 Jose Garcia, #56 David Mane, #58 Samson, and — #138 Thomas who states: “. . . and the only means to deal with Muslim hostility is to bomb and occupy Muslim countries until they stop hating us.”

Consider these words by Hugh Fitzgerald:

“Are there any Jews left in any of the “Arab” lands? Is the corruption in Egypt, a corruption that one sees in almost all the Arab lands, where the rulers help themselves to a large chunk of the nation’s wealth (no one, of course, can outdo the Al-Saud in that competition, and there is not a single Jew living in Saudi Arabia), the result of non-existent Jews? Is the poverty of ordinary Egyptians, a poverty that is also experienced by a great many people in the Arab-populated and Arab-dominated lands, to be attributed to Jews who do not live in those countries? Is the Arab mistreatment of all non-Arabs — Kurds, Berbers, black Africans in the Sudan, Copts, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Maronites, and others — to be attributed to the non-existent Jews? Is the despotism of Arab lands attributable to Jews, or to an ideology, Islam, that insists on blind obedience, to Islam, to the example of Muhammad, to the clerics who issue the fatwas, to the rulers as long as the rulers are Muslims? Is the economic underdevelopment that even the thirteen trillion dollars received by the Arab and Muslim states as oil (and gas) revenues, since 1973 alone, due to the hatred of bid’a, the inshallah-fatalism, and the despotic control of all economic activity by the governments of the region (itself a reflection of that Islam-promoted despotism) the responsibility of non-existent Jews, or of Islam, Islam, Islam?

I could, you could, anyone could go on. There’s no need. When a sufficient number of non-Muslims grasp all the ways that Islam explains the impoverishment and wretchedness of Arab (and many non-Arab Muslim states, and the more they wish to mimic the Arabs, the more likely the people of those states will have to endure similarly wretched polities), and cease to think that they owe the Arabs and Muslims anything, and when the Arabs and Muslims themselves become aware of what we understand, and they show themselves completely unable to rebut what we have concluded, and some of them indeed echo what we say, embarrassedly no doubt but also unavoidably, then the Camp of Islam will be on the defensive, as it should be, so we, especially in the advanced West, can reduce the threat from Muslims and Islam to manageable proportions, and stop squandering so much time, so much money, so much weaponry, so much everything, on a matter that really can be handled, if the foolish in our governments are ignored, and the well-informed and cunning brought in.”

*****
Stomping out ignorance, refusal to tolerate intolerance, refusal to relinquish hard fought for freedoms, pride in exceptionalism,
Geert Wilders,
Robert Spencer,
Hugh Fitzgerald,
Bill Whittle,
Ezra Levant,
Father Zakaria,
Oskar Freysinger,
John Bolton . . . so many to name . . .these are the heros of our day. Lan Astaslem.

Mar 12, 2010 - 6:02 am 153. Peg C.:

Wonderful comments. For me, Geert Wilders is the face of the issue of our time: liberty vs. tyranny. Yes, there are peaceful Muslims. But Islam was born of and represents the purest of tyranny. I fear Geert will be a casualty and a martyr. There will be many, many more. Entire nations and peoples are going to fall to the tyranny of Islam.

Krauthammer, whom I generally admire, revealed his cowardice. Beck revealed his shallowness. This fight is going to require steel wills and endless courage. I pray the West cultivates some leaders that have it, or it is doomed.

Mar 12, 2010 - 7:16 am 154. Linda Rivera:

There is no moderate or radical Islam. There is ONLY Islam:.

The suffering of non-Muslim innocents is overwhelming:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Turkey’s Prime Minister, Erdogan, publicly read an Islamic poem: “The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and Muslims our soldiers…”

In Islam, all countries that are not Muslim, are regarded as the ‘House of War’ to be conquered for Islam. From 56 Muslim countries already conquered by Islam, their foot soldiers are already here in the millions.

In Sweden, many Muslim youth wear a t-shirt proclaiming: “2030-then we take over”

Alija Izetbegovic stated in the Islamic Declaration that:
“there can be neither peace nor coexistence between the Islamic faith and non-Islamic social and political institutions”
http://www.balkanpeace.org/cib/bos/bosi/bosi01.html

Via the Euro-Mediterranean Agreement, 50 million more Muslims are to be brought into Europe. Speeding up the total Islamic conquest of Europe and the UK.

No mercy is shown to infidels.

The global surrender to totalitarian Islam by Western leaders is deliberate. Non-Muslim world leaders hate and loath Judaism and Christianity, preferring instead merciless Islam.

It is demanded by pro-Islam Western leaders that vulnerable little Israel surrender half of her land to barbaric, implacable enemies bent on Jewish genocide.

Hero Geert Wilders, is one of the very few to stand up courageously for freedom and attempt to save non-Muslims from great suffering. He will be remembered forever.

Mar 12, 2010 - 8:25 am 155. Linda Rivera:

JIHAD Against Americans is UNOPPOSED by Washington

Muslim terrorist training camps that teach murder of non-Muslims and violent Islamic conquest of America are allowed. They are not considered the enemy. Homeland security informed America who are regarded as the enemy: peaceful, patriotic Americans – pro lifers, tea party attendees, returning war veterans who risked their lives for America. God help America.

worldnetdaily.com
‘Chilling’ new video: How to slit throats
Jihad maneuvers taught at New York compound
December 15, 2009

By Bob Unruh

A new video released by the Christian Action Network shows Muslim women at a compound in New York state practicing throat-slitting techniques and assault weapons attacks.

The video was distributed by the makers of the movie “Homegrown Jihad: The Terrorist Camps Around the U.S.,” which documents how a jihadist group has developed dozens of training camps across the nation.

WND reported at the time how Jamaat ul-Fuqra has built 35 compounds – mostly in the northeastern corridor of the U.S.

…The U.S. State Department’s 1998 “Patterns of Global Terrorism” report notes the organization “seeks to purify Islam through violence.”

The report continued, “Members have purchased isolated rural compounds in North America to live communally, practice their faith and insulate themselves from Western culture. Fuqra members have attacked a variety of targets that they view as enemies of Islam.”

CAN, led by Martin Mawyer, has researched Muslims of America for years and has provided its video to the FBI, State Department and Homeland Security. To date, there has been no response from the government, the group said.

…”Gilani has stated he is preparing his members to the Soldiers of Allah, and he’s set up the most advanced guerrilla warfare training camps,” he said.

The organization’s “Homegrown Jihad” video includes a chilling scene of Jamaat ul-Fuqra’s leader Sheikh Mubarak Gilani telling followers to “act like you’re his friend. Then kill him.”

According to the Religion of Peace website, there have been more than 250 jihad attacks by Muslims around the globe – including two inside the U.S. – in just the last two months.The death toll from the attacks has surpassed 1,400, the report says.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=119087

New MOA Terror Training Video Exposed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebg6AFylios&feature=player_embedded

Mar 12, 2010 - 8:28 am 156. Linda Rivera:

Anti-Free World Netherlands SHOCKING ATTACK on Western Civilization

Leaflets were distributed in major British cities which included slogans such as: “The final hour will not come until the Muslims kill the Jews.”

Britain’s response? “police appeared reluctant to prosecute because the calls to fight the Jews were carefully couched in quotes from the Koran.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1370900/Extremist-backs-%27kill-Jews%27-poster.html

Does Britain believe it’s acceptable to call for the Religious Murder of Jews and other innocents because it’s in the Koran? In a frightening violation of the Peoples’ right to protection, the UK showed respect for the public call to murder non-Muslims because it’s in the Koran!

In Europe & other countries, Muslim mobs shout in our streets: ‘Jews to the Ovens’, ‘All Jews to the Gas`.
What is the European response to this great evil? They are persecuting innocent Geert Wilders! A frightened European asks: “When can we expect Kristallnacht part 2?”

Wilders’ film, Fitna, is the words of the Koran and Muslims. Why is Geert Wilders being punished for the WORDS of the KORAN and MUSLIMS?

HAARETZ
“the umbrella group for Dutch Muslims said that the film does not insult their religion”
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/969825.html

In prosecuting innocent Geert Wilders, the Netherlands is declaring non-Muslims have no human rights. No right to protest against the violent Islamic written and verbal calls for our murders. The Netherlands betrays all of innocent humanity.

Sign petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/wilders/petition.html

Protect Wilders/Free World: We must have global street demonstrations for Wilders and FREEDOM!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k
PA Muslims CELEBRATE Murder of Americans 9/11

In the last 10 years India suffered 60,000 terror attacks that killed about 18,000 people. The horrific Mumbai attack added to the list. India’s suffering Hindus identify with Israeli suffering.

Historian Will Durant:
“The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within.”

We must fight for our survival before it is forever too late.

In the the last 1400 years, Islam killed 270 million people: 120 million Africans, 60 million Christians, 80 million Hindus and 10 million Buddhists.

And G-D said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground.”
Genesis 4:10

Mar 12, 2010 - 8:32 am 157. David W. Lincoln:

This column, and others in the same vein, and the commenters here, and elsewhere, have hit a nerve.

Here is one counter attack:

http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/03/12/tarek-fatah-from-an-ex-muslim-true-islamophobia.aspx

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=2673093

Mar 12, 2010 - 8:48 am 158. silence do good:

When there is a synagogue in Mecca and Medina, then, and only then, will I accept, tolerate and acknowledge the “religion of peace.”

Mar 12, 2010 - 9:45 am 159. Ilan Ben Menachem:

A Muslim may feign assimilation in a multicultural society for economic and social reasons, but will not reject his faith. We look in vain for “moderate” Muslims. To criticize the zealotry of terrorists would make one an apostate, and the fate of an apostate is worse than that of anyone born an infidel.

Mar 12, 2010 - 9:55 am 160. Sergey:

May it be that Wilders is simply ignorant or relies too much on opinions of apostates from this creed? It may be. But my own grandmother, a historian of medieval Persia, Ottoman Empire and Arabic scholar, who translated Koran into Russian and edited its scientific translation for Russian Academy of Sciences, TOLD ME EXACTLY what Wilders asserts.

Mar 12, 2010 - 10:20 am 161. scared believer:

The WSJ just did an interview with a former Hamas member now living here who has converted to Christianity. He says essentially the same thing as Wilders, only with less political correctness.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703915204575103481069258868.html?KEYWORDS=weekend+interview

“At the end of the day a traditional Muslim is doing the will of a fanatic, fundamentalist, terrorist God. I know this is harsh to say. Most governments avoid this subject. They don’t want to admit this is an ideological war.”

“The problem is not in Muslims,” he continues. “The problem is with their God. They need to be liberated from their God. He is their biggest enemy. It has been 1,400 years they have been lied to.”

Mar 12, 2010 - 11:39 am 162. Sherab Zangpo:

#158 SDG

When there is a synagogue in Mecca and Medina, then, and only then, will I accept, tolerate and acknowledge the “religion of peace.”

That’s my position too.
It’s called RECIPROCITY.

And I want Christian Churches there, Catholic ,Reformed, and Orthodox…and Hindu Temples, Buddhist Temples, Pagan Temples (Isis or Aphrodite will do), Shaman Lodges, Candomble’ Terreiros, Shinto Temples, and the list must be open to anyone else.

They do have a mosque in Rome, do they ?
One of the biggest in the world.

Mar 12, 2010 - 11:49 am 163. susan:

JIHADI POGROM is actively happening against Christians in Africa; not Jews in Israel or in Europe.

“What is happening to Nigeria’s Christians makes a mockery of the frenzied western obsession with Israel.” (Phillips)

Dr Krauthammer’s ignorance that if a pogrom is not happening to Jews then Islamic threat doesn’t really matter.

So while everyone is obsessed into a state of frenzy ONLY about Jews in Europe and about Israel, a Holocaust is being committed against Christians in Africa

The jihad in Nigeria-Melanie Phillips
Monday, 8th March 2010

Utterly appalling violence by Muslims against Christians in Nigeria where the latest tally after weekend attacks on three mostly Christian villages is some 500 dead. The media have described these events as ‘riots’; I would call this a jihadi pogrom. It is but the latest episode in what the media persist in characterising as inter-ethnic violence, but which is in fact a systematic attempt by Muslims to murder and ethnically cleanse the Christian community. The onslaught is described as ‘retaliation ‘ for violent attacks in Jos last January, in which the majority of the victims were Muslim. But as the Barnabas Fund reports, there is evidence that those January attacks were in fact Christian retaliation against Muslim aggression — in particular on that occasion an attack on a church — which has been going on for years.

The fact that the jihad in Africa is widely ignored in the west is not just a moral dereliction of duty. It is a refusal by the west to understand what it is actually up against. What is happening to Nigeria’s Christians makes a mockery of the frenzied western obsession with Israel. To understand the real cause of global tumult we should look carefully at Africa, and the appalling suffering of those upholding the religion that underpins the western world.

Mar 12, 2010 - 11:53 am 164. Pete:

Sherab Zangpo (#161): Well said, reciprocity is critical. As long as Islamic nations like Saudi Arabia prohibit the free exercise of worship by other religions, on their own soil – then we in the west have no moral or other obligation to recognize Islam as a “religion of peace.”

Mar 12, 2010 - 4:03 pm 165. chuck:

#102 WanderingHistorian is absolutely accurate, “radical Islam” is the “reformed Islam.” It is the only reformation we are going to see. There will be no reformation to “Nice Islam”. It is only because we wish to live in peace and comfort that a large number of those in the West choose to delude themselves about Islam. We are already in the fight of our lives and likely the fight for our lives. There is not a shred of evidence in the 1400 years of Islam that would suggest that Muslims will voluntarily live in peace with their neighbors.
That otherwise reasonable people are arguing, in 2010, that there is even a remote possibility that any one can live peace and mutual respect with Islam is as absurd as a professor of mathematics entertaining serious discussions as to whether 2+2=4 or perhaps it may some day equal 5, or 6 or…
I doubt that anyone who has made even the most superficial examination of Islam, and is being even the slightest bit honest with him/herself really believes in the depths of his being that Geert Wilders is wrong.
There is no good Islam. There will be no reformed “Nice Islam”.
The world would be a much better place without any Islam.
One final thought. Those who are so concerned about the rights of Muslims might consider this: The people who would benefit most of all by the eradication of Islam are in fact the Muslims.

Mar 12, 2010 - 9:11 pm 166. The Infidel Alliance:

#158. silence do good:

“When there is a synagogue in Mecca and Medina, then, and only then, will I accept, tolerate and acknowledge the “religion of peace.””

Well, if anyone studied the history of Mecca & Medina they would know that there USED to be lots of synagogues there and all over the Arabian peninsula.

But these synagogues were destroyed and the people who attended them slaughtered and enslaved. This was done by the founder of Islam, the moral standard bearer for all Muslims, the barbarian ‘holy prophet’ Muhammed.

So when Islamists burn down churches, attack synagogues, or blow up ancient statues of Buddha, thety are actually just emulating Muhammed.

Muhammed – the barbarian prince of the worlds most intolerant and violent ‘religion’.

~The Infidel Alliance

Mar 13, 2010 - 12:42 am 167. JGGrimm:

As for Geert Wilder’s right to speak his mind, I contributed to his legal defense fund, which a person of reasonable intellect would understand to mean that I support his right to do just that. Geert Wilder is not my enemy.

Mar 13, 2010 - 5:23 am 168. WILDERS' FAN:

re;# 70 Dave Smith, Your comments are a breath of fresh air in the midst of all the rest. We defenitly need to keep that additude up in order to surfive. I agree, we don’t have too many people to choose from. If indeed you want to lern more about Wilders’ idea’s here is a link: http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
En obviously Wilders will and does make misstakes. BUT, WHO ELSE ! Is willing to pull the cart. We all in the (still) free Western World walk toward troubled times. And if we continue in being unclear about what it is we want our country to look like, we loose it and it’s / our culture to these dark age fanatics. My oppinion is also Beck and Krauthammer should openly appoligise for their comments. But than again, they also should go by the “rules” you so brightly wrote down. My complements to you none the less.

Mar 14, 2010 - 9:31 am 169. Eva:

78.Dane ‘Extremist muslim immigrants can rant and rave – but their grandchildren will be wearing jeans, listening to bad pop music and watching Desperate Housewives.’

Muslim kids already do those things, the girls just do it while wearing hijab. If you mean they will be doing these activites together (boys and girls) don’t kid yourself. Those muslim grandsons will do as they please, but I doubt the granddaughters will since simply talking to boys tends to get them killed when daddy dearest runs them over with the family car.

Anyway, the book banning thing, while hypocritical as it seems, is not a deal breaker for me in supporting Wilders. In this the age of the internet, can a book truely be banned? Of course not. I look at it this way, a banned book can be brought back. People murdered at the hands of muslims cannot.

Mar 14, 2010 - 11:50 am 170. Abdul Kareema Wheat:

#7 Dane
“attempts to ban a religion or religious text because it is ‘a political movement’ by nature is diametrically opposed to the exercise of freedom of religion.”

Perhaps if Mr. Hitler had proclaimed Nazism a “religion” and not a political ideology like Islam…would he have a seat on The UN today? And would Aryan racism, the murder of Jews and calling for their murder would be protected actions / speech as it apparently is in Islam?

Mar 14, 2010 - 11:58 am 171. Abdul Kareema Wheat:

Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen? Is ‘Muslim American’ really an oxymoron?

Some people who were presented the following points to show why Muslim Americans cannot be both at the same time:

Theologically, No – Because their allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Religiously, No – Because no other religion is accepted by their Allah except Islam. Their allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Koran.

Geographically, No – Because their allegiance is to Mecca, to which they turn to in prayer five times a day.

Socially, No – Because their allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews. Plus their men are instructed to marry four women and beat his wife when she disobeys him.

Politically, No – Because they must follow the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teaches annihilation of Israel and destruction of America.

Intellectually, No – Because they cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically, No – Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Koran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot coexist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually, No – Because where as we declare our country to be “one nation under God,” and believe God to be loving and kind, their God, Allah, does not allow allegiance to a Christian God and does not promote love and kindness.

Based on the above… the majority of the people were of the opinion that we should be very suspicious of all Muslims in this country. According to them, Muslims cannot be both ‘good Muslims’ and ‘good Americans’ at the same time.

Mar 14, 2010 - 12:23 pm 172. Dave M. (now in S. Korea):

Here’s some more speculation. Dr. Krauthammer is Jewish and is probably quite sensitive to religious persecution. I think it is reasonable that every Jew would be. Thus, he fears that lumping all Muslims together with the jihadis is not fair (which it isn’t) but he ignores the clear words of the book that is the basis of Islam. The “Islamists”, at least in my understanding of the Koran, are the ones who are following its instructions. Thus, they are the true Islam.

Mar 14, 2010 - 4:08 pm 173. A Profile in Courage | FrontPage Magazine:

[...] there is another explanation. Roger Simon hazards that Beck “is not particularly versed in European affairs”, which are plainly not his forte, [...]

Mar 14, 2010 - 9:47 pm 174. Monday links fiesta! « Public Secrets:

[...] Something you will rarely read on this blog, in this case regarding Geert Wilders: Charles Krauthammer is wrong. More at Jihad Watch and from Roger L. Simon. [...]

Mar 15, 2010 - 11:02 am 175. Brian H:

I cannot imagine any way in which moderate Muslims could alter the practices and teachings of the mullahs and imams who dominate almost all of the Muslim world (ME, UK, EU, US). What could they actually do? Most outside the ME are externally funded and trained, e.g.

CK and GB have accepted, it seems, the fundamental lie that Islam needs to expand without limit: that much of it is compatible with (any) other cultures, and we can choose just to associate with that part.

Take 3 hours, read the Koran straight through (it’s short, and skimming won’t hurt your comprehension much) and then watch FITNA, Wilders’ movie (15 minutes or so). Then, GE & CK, repeat your claims to the camera.

Then we can discuss your opinions. Until then, they’re not serious or informed.

Mar 16, 2010 - 3:13 am 176. Brian H:

#172 Dave M.;
Non-Israeli Jews seem mightily intimidated by Islam. Israelis, not so much. Seemingly paradoxically, the Israelis have much stronger and more realistic fear of Islam. That’s the difference between experience and wishful theorizing. Or between being motivated by survival versus fear of loss of comfort.

Polite and civilized ain’t gonna cut it with Islam.

BTW, for some of the best information and support for Wilders, search the Atlas Shrugs site for his name. Pamela Geller is not intimidated.

Mar 16, 2010 - 3:22 am 177. The Mid-Week Wilders Round-Up « Defend Geert Wilders:

[...] [...]

Mar 17, 2010 - 12:44 pm 178. Tjeerd:

Good article.
It will be interesting to see Geert go up against Job Cohen of the Labour PVDA. The first Jewish leader against the first anti Islamic leader Wilders.
Polls show too close to call.

Mar 17, 2010 - 6:34 pm

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