Pete Sessions Agrees That ‘Deem And Pass’ Is Legitimate
Pete Sessions Agrees That ‘Deem And Pass’ Is Legitimate
Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX) is now the second Republican to reluctantly admit that “deem and pass” is a legitimate procedure that Republicans have used is the passed. Asked if he had ever voted for reconciliation or “deem and pass” since joining Congress in 1997, Sessions said that he had, but stressed that it was only in instances where the bills passed the House and Senate:
CALLER: I want to ask you a question. Have you ever voted for the the deem and pass any time since you’re in Congress? And another one. Have you ever vote for reconciliation process before? How about The Paycheck Act in 2001. Did you voted for that, sir?
SESSIONS: I believe I have. As part of processes where bills have been through the House and through the Senate as they go through the process to conference. I believe there have been times that I have voted for it. I think anybody here who is talking about this processes would recognize and understand that we are talking about the bill that will be probably the largest bill in the history of Congress that we vote on in our generation.
Watch it:
Indeed, as a member of the Rules Committee, Sessions has been a big supporter of deem and pass during periods of Republican majority, a process he now considers “a disgrace to the House of Representatives [that] tramples on democracy by attempting to silence the voice of the American people.” As Norm Orenstein reminds us, “in the last Congress that Republicans controlled, from 2005 to 2006, Rules Committee Chairman David Dreier used the self-executing rule more than 35 times, and was no stranger to the concept of “deem and pass.”
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Republiscum and conservatards: You can b!tch and complain and cry and whine all you want – HEALTH CARE REFORM IS GOING TO BE PASSED – very soon now. There is nothing…NOTHING…that you can do about it. Your opinion is worthless.
How it gets done and the process used is irrelevant.
Don’t like it? Tough sh!t.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:55 amWow. Sessions actually shying away from rampant hypocrisy is a shock. The self-executing rule is pretty shifty and makes for bad politics…but it’s constitutional. And necessary in times of extreme obstructionism.
Also:
The CBO score is in.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:56 amAnd all the while, MSM will never call them on it. You have to go to C-Span and the ‘Internets’ to find out about the Repugs hypocricy. Faux News and CNN (Faux News Lite) will never call them on it.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:57 amThat’s because it IS a legitimate process! Retards, I swear.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:58 amTo hear the Repiggies, it’s legit when THEY use ‘Deem & Pass’, but if the Dems even THINK about doing that, it’s illegal, illegitimate, and unConstitutional.
shorter GOopers: IOKIYAR/waaaahhhhhhhh
March 18th, 2010 at 9:58 amEnn@2, Yaeh, and already the Repugs have whipped themselves into hysteria. Funny though, I wonder where the outrage was when Bush pushed through his Drug Prescription Plan?
March 18th, 2010 at 9:59 amEnnuiDivine (a holding company of Soylent Food Products, Inc.) says:
The CBO score is in.
It’s ultimately going to reduce the deficit? Wow, republiscum won’t like that…
March 18th, 2010 at 9:59 am@6
That did more to damage our deficit than HCR will ever do… they’re pathetic.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:00 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
First they said “deem and pass” was unconstitutional. After they got called on that lie, they changed their minds. Now it is constitutional but this is such a big bill, that “deem and pass” cannot be used.
Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX), you are a LIAR!
March 18th, 2010 at 10:00 amThinking we might just see more of this in the coming months as we get closer to the elections, they gNOp needs some kinda record to run on. As there is no way that all of there constituents are this blindly dumb.
Well i maybe just a dreaming, it is early and all.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:00 am@7
Every CBO report has said that HCR will lower the deficit by a substantial amount. Republiwonts ignore that, of course. It is convenient to whine about the deficit while they have their fingers in their ears about the deficit-reduction in the HCR bill.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:01 amQuestioningEverything says:
Using deem and pass on a simple $10 billion bill with bipartisan support is a far cry from using it on a $1 trillion monstrosity that does not have bipartisan support.
So? It doesn’t matter. Dems are going to pass it this way anyway.
Your opinion is worthless and you are powerless to stop it.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:02 am@9 F7F for being a typical cult troll!!!!!!
here is the a place you can go to get help.
Cult Help & Deprogramming Information at Freedom Of Mind
Steven Alan Hassan, cult counselor and mind control expert is a Nationally Certified Counselor and licensed Mental Health Counselor and has developed a breakthrough approach to help loved ones rescue cult mind control victims. He is a former member of the Moon cult. Ex-cult members and others seek him out for specialized counseling to help them recover from symptoms other mental health professionals are not trained to address.
I would have hoped you have gone here by now, but that first step is the hardest one. So try baby steps.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:03 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
QuestionEverything,
Why does the amount of money involved in the bill invalidate the use of “deem and pass”?
I question your fascist dogma QuestionEverything. I predict you will fail to answer rationally, or simply fail to answer.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:04 am@13
It would be one thing if the Republiwonts were acting in good faith and interested in dialogue. The reason there isn’t bipartisan support is because they are intent on opposing everything the Dems do no matter what. Besides, the prescription drug plan didn’t pay for itself, and the HCR ultimately will. Hmmmmmmmm I wonder if there is much disconnect in their brainlets.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:04 amSelective amnesia only works for those choosing not to remember.
Republics, we have not forgotten the 8 long years that you & Bush contrived, conspired and controlled the legislative process before the Great Bush Depression.
You may have short memories & dicks, but we’re in this for the long haul…
March 18th, 2010 at 10:05 am@17
From the desperation the republicans are showing, I’d have to wonder if their brainlets were ever connected to begin with.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:06 amTheVeritableBuddhist says:
It would be one thing if the Republiwonts were acting in good faith and interested in dialogue.
Absolutely. They have demonstrated – time and again – that they ARE NOT acting in good faith, and have no intention of acting in good faith.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:06 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
@17
The amount of money has nothing to do with it. This is just another straw man being thrown up from the obstructionist Republiwonts.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:07 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
@21
Your analogy isn’t even close. Go read some books on logic and rhetoric and come back when you have something to add to the discussion.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:08 am@23
What a ridiculous question.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:09 amMoving on…
@21
A learning experience is one of those things that says, ‘You know that thing you just did? Don’t do that.’ Douglas Adams
There seem now to be three default Faux Con errors:
1) The strawman
2) Ad hominem attacks
3) False equivalence
which of these do you enjoy using? or you like all three?
March 18th, 2010 at 10:10 amQuestioningEverything says:
It doesn’t matter. Dems are going to pass it this way anyway.
Your opinion is worthless and you and your leaders are powerless to stop it.
There is NOTHING that you can do about it.
Don’t like it? Tough sh!t.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:10 amThen why are republicans holding up or down votes on appointees.
You’re whining rings hollow.
The right used these procedures, they are legal and constitutional. All the whining by you losers will make no difference whatsoever.
Don’t even try to lecture the right on illegal procedures you piece of shit.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:10 amRep. Sessions may want to clue in Sean Hannity, whose interview with the Lovely-Ex-Half-Term-Governor Palin says this procedure is “undemocratic” and represents a “transformation” of an America that “most of us don’t want but still voted for and now we’re witnessing what Obama promised.” . . .huh??? Her “eloquence” continues.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:12 amdon’t even try to lecture the left
at 28.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:12 amI’m wondering what these guys are going to do once it passes and voters discover that it actually helps them, while saving taxpayer’s money. Do you think the MSM will be able to obfuscate the benefits and confuse the folks that can finally get insurance?
March 18th, 2010 at 10:13 amDamn. I almost stepped in Trollshit.
Watch your step, TPers, they’re dropping turds like they drop responsibility.
Up or down vote? The Senate & House have already voted on this bill, trollups.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:13 amGo back under the bridge, do not pass go & quit dropping turds in our playground.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
QuestioningEverything, you and your leaders LOST, you are all LOSING now, and you will continue to LOSE BIG in the future, and there is NOTHING that you can do about it.
Don’t like it? Tough sh!t.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:16 amWhen did I make an analogy? Please link to the analogy you claim I made, otherwise admit you are lying that I made one. The only analogy made was made by you.
I asked you a simple question, and challenged you to answer it rationally. The question was, “why does the amount of money involved in the bill invalidate the use of “deem and pass?”.
What does bipartisanship have to do with the legitimacy of “deem and pass”?
I first asked you what the amount of money involved has to do with the legitimacy of using “deem and pass” and suddenly you are deflecting with talk of bipartisanship. Unfortunately for you, now you have to prove both statements.
What does the amount of money involved have to do with the legitimacy of “deem and pass” and what does bipartisanship have to do with the legitimacy of “deem and pass”? Two separate issues, requiring two rational answers from an irrational fascist propagandist.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:17 amA parlimentary procedure that would harm the credibility of Congress?
Too late. The republican party has already done that.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:18 am@33 F&F for being a slightly better cult troll, but cult troll anyways.
Only slightly better cause there maybe some small amount of possibility of being a leader for there cause.
The five leadership traits are:
Honest
Forward-Looking
Competent
Inspiring
Intelligent
give it a try, as the cult community really needs help.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:20 amRepubliscum and conservatards:
You Lost, You are Losing, You Will Lose.
Don’t like it? Tough sh!t.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:20 amlike fillibuster abuse in the senate by republicans honey?
carry on fool.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:23 amRemember the kid on the playground who would change the rules in the middle of a game just so they could ‘win’?
They all became Republicans…
March 18th, 2010 at 10:23 amMan, this thread is gonna screw up my shoes, who’s turn is it to clean the troll turds?
March 18th, 2010 at 10:23 amThe CBO score is in and there is a 130B savings in the deficit and the cost came in around 940B — it also adds years of solvency to Medicare.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:24 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Fritz (God Told Me To Hate Conservatives) says:
Republiscum and conservatards:
You Lost, You are Losing, You Will Lose.
Don’t like it? Tough sh!t.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:25 am–
Put something similar what Fritz wrote on a f***ing banner in front of the capital building when health-care passes.
White House official: Fox News is the “scene of the crime” on health care “falsehoods and myths”
LOL>>> what a great lead. they should have the SS go and place yellow crime scene tape around the building. But they may need a HazMat unit as well.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:27 amTP Typo Alert:
“that Republicans have used is the passed”
s/b
“that Republicans have used in the past”
March 18th, 2010 at 10:27 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Blue Dogs opposing HCR is a misnomer.
Yellow Dogs would be far more descriptive.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:29 amPilotshark Sponsored by Boeing says:
White House official: Fox News is the “scene of the crime” on health care “falsehoods and myths”
LOL>>> what a great lead. they should have the SS go and place yellow crime scene tape around the building. But they may need a HazMat unit as well.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:29 am–
Don’t forget to include the one guy wandering around with a Geiger counter. Beck’s BS is so toxic it has got to be radioactive.
I can just picture QuestionEverything rushing back to his favorite fascist wingnut site, looking for the reason why the amount of money or bipartisanship invalidates the use of “deem and pass”.
When you depend on lies for your talking points, you are often forced to face the reality that your propaganda rings hollow.
It would be difficult for the psyche of a normal person to be faced with the reality that their dogma is based on lies but it is easier for fascists to partake of this horrible behavior, because to be a Republican fascist, you have to be willing to ignore morality.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:30 amjmunny says:
March 18th, 2010 at 10:30 amNothing but the best journalism here.
–
Translation: “Ooh…typos and I hate anything that isn’t Fox.”
jmunny says:
Nothing but the best journalism here.
Nothing but the dumbest trolls here.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:31 ambizarrobrain (brought to you by The Citadel of Satanic Kitten Worship and Tidy Cat) says: @49
LOL>> true, think beck’s brain has a haft live of a cockroach.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:31 amby attempting to silence the voice of the American people.”
Wait! Is that the voice of the American people that spoke in November 2008??
Asshat.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:32 am@52. Which is a shame because I think this site deserves better.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:32 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Levi the Oracle,
March 18th, 2010 at 10:33 amQE was seriously parroting a Fox article (which basically could be called “WAH! The idiots at Fox say abortion’s in the bill and therefor it must be!”) I found while I was looking for that article that debunks Stupaks’s BS. It wasn’t word for word but he was practically paraphrasing it.
QuestionEverything,
I am not going to forget your failure to answer this question, and I am going to remind you of it over and over and over.
Time for a new name I guess, ey sockpuppet?
March 18th, 2010 at 10:34 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Hey Petey -exactly how are ‘democracy trampled’ and ‘American people silenced’ when this requires 51 votes to pass? Majority rules, bro… elections have consequences.
Also, as others have noted, it’s shameful that you can see side-by-side headlines implying that Dems wanna pass HCR ‘without voting on it’ at the same time that Kucinich changes vote his to YES.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:36 amjmunny, how do you like losing so badly?
March 18th, 2010 at 10:36 amDon’t like it? Tough sh!t.
#
STORM says:
former Democratic congresswoman Marjorie Margolies urges “wavering House Democrats” to vote for health care reform, saying that she doesn’t regret losing her seat after voting for President Clinton’s plan
The people are too dumb to know what they want. Most Americans can’t read, and if they can they read the wrong things. So vote for what you think is a good for the people not what the people think is good for them.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:37 am–
Most’ American’s can’t read? Really?
“I think anybody here who is talking about this processes would recognize and understand that we are talking about the bill that will be probably the largest bill in the history of Congress that we vote on in our generation.”
Yes Rep Sessions so choose carefully which side of history you wish to stand on…with the People or the HMOs (rhetorical question)
Good points this morning regulars! Deem and Pass has no limitation on the size/cost of the Bill. It also does not require bi-partisan support. Maybe if the Republicans didn’t abuse procedures like the filibuster and anonymous holds the dems wouldn’t have to resort to these more obscure (but quite legal) rules. Also remember that between 1995-2007 the Republican majority used the self-execution rule 202 times. Since President Obama took office they have used the filibuster so often it has become the norm not the exception.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:37 amFu(k the Republican Party of No, fu(k the trolls that support them. If the Dems have to use obscure parliamentary procedures to pass everything for the next three years because of Republicant obstruction so be it! You lost Repubs, get on board or move out of the fu(king way. The stakes are far too high for your bullshit. People are suffering, losing their homes and livelyhoods, their jobs and their security due to Republican greed,incompetence and compliance with big business. They obstruct Democracy, spread lies, vote en masse to block everything, abuse the filibuster and anonymous holds…and have the balls to complain that Dems are still making progress. Fu(k ‘em…dry and hard!
@53 live=life
fat fingers to early in the morning, the keyboard got in my way.
smiles thats about it.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:37 amPilotshark Sponsored by Boeing says:
bizarrobrain (brought to you by The Citadel of Satanic Kitten Worship and Tidy Cat) says: @49
LOL>> true, think beck’s brain has a haft live of a cockroach.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:38 am–
Haha. It’s about the size of a roach as well.
So, STORM? Since you are now an admitted homosexual, are you now supporting Health Care Reform?
March 18th, 2010 at 10:38 amRethugs can rationalize anything that doesn’t agree with their greedy corporatist agenda. They’re hypocrites…just read “questioneverything”’s comments for proof of that.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:39 amBuford, thank you Buford. Let me repeat what you said for our slow trolls.
It takes 51 votes to pass a bill.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:39 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
topic is sessions admission that this procedure is legitiamte.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:41 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
@69 F&F for being a less the typical troll.
There seem now to be three default Faux Con errors:
1) The strawman
2) Ad hominem attacks
3) False equivalence
which one of these you enjoy using more? or do you try to encompass all three?
March 18th, 2010 at 10:42 amSTORM says:
Come on. You know most Americas are just a bunch of fat slobs addicted to reality shows and football. They have no idea what needs to be done to make America fair.
–
So Storm maybe you should turn off the TV, lay off the Cheeto’s and tell us what you think would make America “fair”.*
*Please note: fairness becomes null during a democrat presidents term*
March 18th, 2010 at 10:42 amSessions needs more psychiatric sessions…
March 18th, 2010 at 10:43 am“storm” says “Most Americans can’t read, and if they can they read the wrong things.”
Thanks for the perfect description of fox “news” fans and teabagger zealots.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:43 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Please allow me a quick re-write of the headline and first graf:
____________________________________
PETE SESSIONS AGREES REPUBLICANS DISGRACE TO HOUSE OF REPS
Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX) admitted that Republicans were “a disgrace to the House of Representatives” and that they “trample[d] on democracy” and attempt[ed] to silence the voice of the American people” when they used the legislative process known as “deem and pass.”
In an unusually frank interview Rep. Sessions said…
____________________________________
OK, I feel better now ;-)
March 18th, 2010 at 10:46 amjmunny says:
Deem and pass has not been used for a bill this large in history (actually nothing even close). Most Americans don’t trust our politicians and to pass something this massive through the backdoor is not going to help congress earn that trust.
Doesn’t matter – Dems are going to pass it this way, and there is nothing you or your leaders can do about it.
Don’t like it? Tough sh!t.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:46 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
do rethuglicans have a problem with high numbers…they either whine that the health reform bill is over 2000 pages long or the health reform bill is over a trillion dollars?
March 18th, 2010 at 10:48 amSTORM says:
only if it can guarantee it will pay for all Medication having to do with AIDS.
STORM wants to know about AIDS coverage, but I don’t know anything about it. Can anyone help him out?
March 18th, 2010 at 10:48 amjmunny says: @76
Here i though you actually might have a shot at being a leader for the cult side, but you really need to step up. You could first try not to use ever talking point that fox/saudi uses or any of the other px hero`s talking points.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:49 amThe reason for Deem and pass is so that the House doesn’t have to separately vote on the Senate’s version. Period.
Sorry trolls, Kix are for kids.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:49 amAmazing we can pass a failed drug prescription (that cost $1.2 trillion) coverage program under Bush (though it wasn’t passed with D&P) but we struggle to pass health-care reform now.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:50 am“jmunny” says “I’m not losing-I will be fine”
to bad you already lost your mind. Perhaps a “vacation” at michele bachmann’s mental health clinics will help.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/erica/2009/09/michelle-bachmann-and-her-husb.php
March 18th, 2010 at 10:51 amjbrantow says:
“jmunny” says “I’m not losing-I will be fine”
to bad you already lost your mind. Perhaps a “vacation” at michele bachmann’s mental health clinics will help.
her hubby’s new add campaign.
Look at what we have done for Michele, we took a batcrap crazy lady help her to be a little less batcrap crazy and is able to lead a all be it crazy life, but normal enough to be in public.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:55 amJudge not lest ye be judged foolish mortal.
Citation needed please.
Who are you to decide what other people should and should not read? How dare you judge what others read. Is this disgusting fascist going to start burning books next?
I do not know that most Americans are anything you claim, but it is interesting that you think so highly of your fellow Americans.
You are a disgrace to your country Storm. You shame the Great name of United States of America. If there is a God, I pray he takes mercy on your worthless soul, for I would not.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:56 amThose who oppose this latest use of “Deem and Pass” would have more credence if they hadn’t allowed the republicans from abusing power and ramming thru their bills when they held the majority. “Chutzpah” is the appropriate term. The GOP lost all credibility years ago and now all they have is bluster.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:57 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Why is the use of “deem and pass” illegitimate given that the dollar amount is unprecedented?
Perhaps you are correct that there should be more accountability, but what should be is a matter of opinion, and does not reflect on what is. Even if you are correct that there should be more accountability, that does not invalidate the use of “deem and pass” any more than Storm’s claim of bipartisanship.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:10 amIt is sad that it took a ‘caller’ to bring this out in the open. I wish we had ‘reporters’ who were as well informed.
The lesson is: WE need to be the callers.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:11 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
QuestionEverything sure ran and hid, coward troll.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:12 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
So witty Kenneth. I’m not sure why you have this distrust for the CBO but I’m guessing because you don’t want to believe it so it can’t be true.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:16 amKenneth says:
March 18th, 2010 at 11:16 amTry ‘Deem and Pass’ and suffer the wrath of the American voter in November.
–
*yawn*
kenny quoted the cbo when it said what he wanted to hear.
sessions says this is ok kenny. Shut up.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:19 amTry to reduce the deficit over 100 billion and face the wrath of americans? Kenny, just because you liked all the supplemental spending Bush did for the invasion of Iraq without ever budgeting for it you shouldn’t be mad that there are responsible people in charge now.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:20 amPeople who think this country has the money to pay for another round of entitlements are either deluded, moochers, or just smegmatic morons.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:22 amDRIP, you totally missed the point Marjorie Margolies was making. She voted for a bill that was good for the country and good for her voters. It was the budget bill that created the surplus that existed when Clinton left office. And yet you smarmy Republicans used it against her and she lost.
It is time all politicians started worrying more about the welfare of the country than their own careers. Congress is not a jobs program. They are supposed to keep the country moving forward instead we have been stagnating for decades. Enough.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:23 amCharles1776 says:
March 18th, 2010 at 11:24 amPeople who think this country has the money to pay for another round of entitlements are either deluded, moochers, or just smegmatic morons.
–
Raise taxes to pay for stuff then.
kenneth-
TWO HUNDRED AND TWO
That is the number of times that Republican majorities have used the evil self-executing rule between 1995 and 2007. Seriously son, pull your head out of your @ss and turn off FOX News. Get some fresh air. The People do not care what parliamentary rules are used to get around Republican obstruction, particularly when they are completely legal, have no limitations on the size or cost of the Bill and DO NOT REQUIRE BI-PARTISAN SUPPORT.
You b1tch about Dems using procedures that were quite common when Reps wanted to pass legislation. Where is your outrage over the Republican’s abuse of the filibuster and anonymous holds, not to mention their use of outright lies and fear tactics?????? Fu(k off little troll, get back under your bridge and change your piss-soaked panties. This Bill WILL become law.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:25 amVote AGAINST the bill and you will suffer the wrath of the American voters that don’t watch Fox/Pravda and know you supported the billionaire insurance executives and ignored the millions left to die or bankrupt instead. Idiot.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:26 am@76: “…with a $940 Billion bill there should be more accountability.”
Great! Pass a law to that effect. Until then, live by the current rules.
“Don’t like it? Tough sh!t.”
(Wow, Fritz – that’s marvelously therapeutic!)
March 18th, 2010 at 11:29 amWhen you were spending like drunken sailors I told you then to not say stupid shit like this when we needed the money for Americans.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:32 amCharles1776 says:
“People who think this country has the money to pay for another round of entitlements are either deluded, moochers, or just smegmatic morons.”
Like bridges to nowhere, two wars waged with borrowed money and kept off the books for five years? Or do you mean tax breaks for wealthy citizens and big corporations? Or was it taxpayer money wasted to insure that wall street execs and bankers can keep their bonuses and retention incentives? Or are you talking about a bloated and un-nessecarily huge Pentagon budget? I mean if you’re gonna spend money you don’t have, why waste it on Americans in need right? Particularly when it will actually CUT the defecit right? And help insure millions of your fellow Americans? Jeez you guys are retarded.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:32 amUsing deem and pass on a simple $10 billion bill with bipartisan support is a far cry from using it on a $1 trillion government take over that does not have bipartisan support. Why are Democrats afraid of a simple up or down vote? Are they afraid of the backlash that will come in November? Cowards.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:37 amQuestioningEverything
up or down vote.
Obama appointees honey. You can’t have it both ways.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:39 amCharles1776 has a very short memory. Surplus at the end of President Clinton’s term. Huge deficit at the end of President Bush’s term. Tax cuts for the rich and wars with no way to pay was how the republicans treated us. And now there’s grown up discussions on healthcare reform for the vast majority of all americans. Quit with the double standard and false bravado Chuck. The fight for healthcare is the fight for all americans.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:39 ambizarrobrain (brought to you by The Citadel of Satanic Kitten Worship and Tidy Cat) says:
–
Raise taxes to pay for stuff then.
So how high do we need to raise taxes to pay for this next disaster? How about paying off the $30,000 of debt hanging over the head of every US citizen? And if you just count employed US citizens, then it’s closer to $100,000 – the math is irrefutable.
So when my state and federal taxes hit 50% because nobody has the guts to reduce, not just freeze, entitlements, then I’ve reached my limit and the tax collectors can kiss my ass and try to collect the balance.
And I’m sure there’s some wimp who’ll say, “you’ll go to jail.” And like that’s supposed to scare me?! Not!
March 18th, 2010 at 11:42 amA Patriot Acting,
March 18th, 2010 at 11:44 amDo you seriously think that the takeover of 1/6th of the economy with this huge entitlement program can pass without an up or down vote of Congress?
Charles1776
see 105 honey.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:47 amAnd I’m sure there’s some wimp who’ll say, “you’ll go to jail.” And like that’s supposed to scare me?! Not!
No, we hope you go to jail. Then you’ll really have something to crab about.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:49 amWhen did I make an analogy? Please link to the analogy you claim I made, otherwise admit you are lying that I made one. The only analogy made was made by you.
I asked you a simple question, and challenged you to answer it rationally. The question was, “why does the amount of money involved in the bill invalidate the use of “deem and pass?”.
What does bipartisanship have to do with the legitimacy of “deem and pass”?
I first asked you what the amount of money involved has to do with the legitimacy of using “deem and pass” and suddenly you are deflecting with talk of bipartisanship. Unfortunately for you, now you have to prove both statements.
What does the amount of money involved have to do with the legitimacy of “deem and pass” and what does bipartisanship have to do with the legitimacy of “deem and pass”? Two separate issues, requiring two rational answers from an irrational fascist propagandist.
QuestionEverything@107 spamed virtually the same thing at @9. I flagged him as a spammer and he still has not answered my questions, so I repeated them for him.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:49 amSo when my state and federal taxes hit 50% because nobody has the guts to reduce, not just freeze, entitlements, then I’ve reached my limit and the tax collectors can kiss my ass and try to collect the balance.
I take it that you would also like to repeal the faith-based programs? Talk about a waste of tax dollars….
March 18th, 2010 at 11:51 amQuestioningEverything says:
Using deem and pass on a simple $10 billion bill with bipartisan support is a far cry from using it on a $1 trillion government take over that does not have bipartisan support.
Your trillion dollar figure is over ten years. At a hundred billion a year, it is dwarfed by the bogus war spending of the Bush years. Funny, You neven came around when that was going on.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:54 amHow about paying off the $30,000 of debt hanging over the head of every US citizen? And if you just count employed US citizens, then it’s closer to $100,000 – the math is irrefutable.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:54 am—-
Which is exactly why I am more then willing to have my taxes raised. Are we not responsible grown ups or do we prefer to pass it on to the unborn?
The penalty for tax evasion is up to five years in a federal penitentiary and up to 100,000 dollars in fines.
Hey, the wingnut called me a wimp. Charles1776, you had better pray your jailers will be more compassionate to you than I would be.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:55 amKenneth @ 111:
Asked and answered – see 32.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:57 amThen why are you guys urging the Dems to use it?
If you were so confident that its use would bring “the wrath of the American voter” on the Democrats, one would think that you would be pleased to see it happen, not warning us against it.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:59 am@120. Because we are not motivated by what it bad for Democrats politically. We are motivated by doing what is right. The Democrats are motivated by fear of a November backlash.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:10 pmdbadass says:
Which is exactly why I am more then willing to have my taxes raised. Are we not responsible grown ups or do we prefer to pass it on to the unborn?
You could give two shits about the unborn! You want to allow women to kill their babies!
March 18th, 2010 at 12:11 pmQE thinks bankrupting America was the right thing to do.
Who knew.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:12 pmI believe Deem and Pass would be the LOGICAL thing to do for Dems. I’m starting to believe that actual Republican senators don’t even understand these processes being used.
I heard one of them say “a sober man couldn’t understand this process.” Wow…it’s actually hilarious to realize that the GOP is too stupid to realize that a vote for reconciliation is NOT a vote for the senate bill, unless they use Deem & Pass. They’re also too slow to realize that they SHOULD vote for reconciliation (NO Deem & Pass obviously) assuming they don’t want the original Senate or House health care bills to be written into law AS IS…
After acknowledging this narrowmindedness, it’s then logical to say that in our partisan bickering, a vote for reconciliation WILL BE a vote for the senate bill…therefore, Deem & Pass seems the most logical thing to do.
It’s like Dems are giving the Repubs. a chance to actually work together, and they’re too stupid to realize that a health care bill will go through, either AS IS or with mods…but they really don’t have an out this time, as I see it, save for endless amendments…which will be overturned as obstructionist if they take advantage of it…
March 18th, 2010 at 12:13 pmNo Fred, I do not think that the Democrats bankrupting America since they took over Congress in 2006 was the right thing to do. Don’t be ridiculous.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:13 pmKenny, Kenny, Kenny, you are such a ridiculous lad….
March 18th, 2010 at 12:14 pmKenneth says:
This thread is about the failure of most republicans to understand how government works honey.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:16 pmQuestioningEverything, that’s because you’re not smart.
You don’t understand anything as far as I’ve been able to tell.
I question your intelligence.
sessions says this is ok. What’s your question on that?
March 18th, 2010 at 12:20 pmBut QE, one of the objections you guys have made is that the bill will have no impact for several years.
Surely the nation could survive such a cataclysm as putting up for nine months a bill that wouldn’t take effect for years, if it got the “good guys” back in the majority, especially since there’s been plenty of big talk about repealing the bill once that happens?
Nope, I sense a campaign motivated by the fear of “what if it’s popular? We’ll be totally screwed” just as Bill Kristol suggested sixteen years ago:
“it will revive the reputation of the party that spends and regulates, the Democrats, as the generous protector of middle-class interests. And it will at the same time strike a punishing blow against Republican claims to defend the middle-class by restraining the growth of government.”
March 18th, 2010 at 12:21 pm1. Democrats took over Congress in 2007, not 2006. Get your facts right if you’re going to lay this game.
2. Democrats weren’t the ones who started two foreign wars, subcontracted out half of the required manpower at inflated rates, hid the costs from the balance sheet AND cut taxes during wartime — something no other president or even military power had ever done. So your “Democrats bankrupted America” claim is sheer fact-free hysteria, my friend.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:25 pmMy, my… the trolls are certainly in a state of hysterics today, aren’t they?
March 18th, 2010 at 12:27 pmI would note that almost every single state with a large urban population is in favor of health care reform. The Republicans think that the Dems should let the little redneck states dictate legislation. The Dems let these small states dictate the Senate bill. That should never happen again on ANY legislation. All Senate committees should have a fair amount of urban state representation. Baucus and his committee should not be allowed to delegate negotiations to a small number of senators that he selects.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:29 pmQuestionEverything,
Why does the amount of money involved in the bill invalidate the use of “deem and pass”?
Why does the lack of bipartisanship invalidate the use of “deem and pass”?
Don’t think these questions are going away if you fail to answer them, they will haunt you until you abandon that name.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:39 pmLevi, have you noticed that “QuestionEverything” questions everything except right-wing talking points?
Seems a bit disingenuous to me, how about you?
March 18th, 2010 at 12:41 pm@ 133. I’ve answered the before. The answer is that deem and pass has only been used in the past when a relatively small amount of money is at stake on issues that have bipartisan support. It is a parliamentary shortcut designed to save time when something minor has support from both sides of the isle. It is not a procedure that has ever been used for a $1,000,000,000,000.00 + bill that does not have bipartisan support, designed purely to avoid having to face an up or down vote.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:48 pmQuestionEverything,
Why does the unprecedented quantity of money involved invalidate “deem and pass”?
March 18th, 2010 at 12:50 pm@136. Because it is too big and too important a subject to brush over with a parliamentary shortcut, and the bill does not have bipartisan support.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:53 pmQuestioningEverything says:
@136. Because it is too big and too important a subject to brush over with a parliamentary shortcut, and the bill does not have bipartisan support.
If the Republicans do not like the parliamentary procedure being used, then they should give up the obstructionist tactics. They have repeatedly stated they will kill the bill by any means. Therefor, the Dem should pass the bill by any means. Quid pro quo.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:58 pmWhy does the size and the importance of the bill invalidate “deem and pass”?
Why does “deem and pass” need to have bipartisan support to be valid?
You keep doing the wingnut shuffle. Just admit that the size, importance and the bipartisanship have no bearing whatsoever on the validity of “deem and pass”. You are wrong and no amount of spin is going to make you right.
March 18th, 2010 at 1:01 pmIF it passes, the Dems will pay a dear price in November, especially if they do it the cowardly way by avoiding an up or down vote.
March 18th, 2010 at 1:02 pmSorry, but “because you personally do not like it” does not invalidate procedural tactics.
March 18th, 2010 at 1:05 pmThe bills about to be reconciled have already passed the Senate (by 60 votes) and the house. The reconciled bill will have to pass the house by a simple majority, AKA an ‘up or down vote’.
What do repubican’ts hate about democracy?
March 18th, 2010 at 1:11 pmQuestionEverything,
What does the unprecedented size, the amount of money, the importance, or the lack of bipartisanship have to do with the legitimacy of “deem and pass”?
It’s not a complex question. Just answer that none of those things have anything to do with the legitimacy of “deem and pass” and you will be well on your way to recovery from the fascist brainwashing.
March 18th, 2010 at 1:13 pmQuestioningEverything says:
By November the health care bill will be forgotten. The voters will be thinking about jobs. The Dems will be pushing banking regulation and jobs bills between now and election day. More Republican obstructions will not help them in November. The voters will make them pay dearly for stopping the Congress from doing its job.
March 18th, 2010 at 1:25 pm140 QuestioningEverything says:
IF it passes, the Dems will pay a dear price in November, especially if they do it the cowardly way by avoiding an up or down vote
Uh huh Polly.
Yup…those additional MILLIONS and MILLIONS of American citizens that are going to gain access to healthcare are gonna be real upset. Uh huh.
Oh ya, and those TENS of THOUSANDS that die every year because of no healthcare are gonna be real upset, that they did NOT die.
Opps…and then there are the MILLIONS that are holding a collective breath, that they are going to be thrown off their insurance…ya, I’ll bet that they will vote Rushpublican’t!
Polly…you are full of $hit.
But have a cracker anyway.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED and WMDs!
March 18th, 2010 at 1:42 pm@145. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 43% favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats, while 53% oppose it. Those findings include 23% who Strongly Favor the plan and 46% who Strongly Oppose it.
March 18th, 2010 at 1:45 pmQuestionEverything,
Rasmussen is a bias pollster. Citing Rasmussen for anyting purpose shows your lack of integrity.
Now back to the topic and your unanswered question.
What does the size, the amount of money, the importance, or the need for bipartisanship have to do with the legitimacy of “deem and pass”?
March 18th, 2010 at 2:04 pmRarely have I observed such willfull ignorance as I see on this thread!
It is a simple FACT that Ms. Pelosi is resorting to the “Slaughter solution” because of the unwillingness of DEMOCRATS to vote on tge bill!
Why is this so hard for you folks to grasp?
March 18th, 2010 at 2:21 pmQE,
You forgot that these jokers ALWAYS dismiss polls and highly reputable polling organizations when they simply DON’T LIKE the results!
Hahahahaha
March 18th, 2010 at 2:24 pmLevi,
I’ll answer the question:
There is no way to flatly assert that so called “deem and pass” procedures are ‘legitimate’ or Constitutional.
The only way to find out is to challenge in court how a particular piece of legislation was passed. This has been done successfully in the past.
This is one of the reasons even prominent Democrats are urging Pelosi not to use the tactic on the healthcare bill.
There are actually bigger problems lurking for the Democrats with this bill, not the least of which is going to be crafting something that will qualify for the reconciliation rules!
There are lawsuits already in advanced stages of preparation to mount very serious challenges to this bill should the Dems decide to go with the “Slaughter solution”!
March 18th, 2010 at 2:38 pmLevi,
what do you think of the Gallup polling, hmmmmm?
Is Gallup a “bias pollster”?
March 18th, 2010 at 2:41 pmTim Vaccumebrain,
It is not for me to assert that “deem and pass” are constitutional or legitimate.
It is for you fascists to prove it is not. You fascists are welcome to take this to court, that is your right. It does not, however, mean that health care reform won’t become law.
You failed to answer the question, because you know there is nothing that delegitimizes the use of “deem and pass”.
Rasmussen is not a highly respected polling operation. Rasmussen is owned by the fascist Republican crime syndicate.
You lose.
March 18th, 2010 at 2:43 pmThe Sailor,
“The bills about to be reconciled have already passed the Senate (by 60 votes) and the house. The reconciled bill will have to pass the house by a simple majority, AKA an ‘up or down vote’.”
no, this is not correct. A reconciled bill must be voted on by BOTH the House and the Senate before it is presented to the President. Also, the bills voted on in each chamber must be identical! The founding fathers in their wisdom understood just the type of shenanigans that might one day be employed so they enshrined this rule in the Constitution!
What do repubican’ts hate about democracy?
March 18th, 2010 at 2:53 pmTim Vaculik says:
The only way to find out is to challenge in court how a particular piece of legislation was passed. This has been done successfully in the past.
There are lawsuits already in advanced stages of preparation to mount very serious challenges to this bill should the Dems decide to go with the “Slaughter solution”!
The problem with challenging the procedure is that if it is successful, then all of the 35 times the Republicans used the same procedure will void all that legislation. That could jeopardize bills that involved tax cuts and other tidbits that are Republicans pet projects. Any group that received benefits under these 35 bills is not going to be very happy if their taxes go up because of this challenge. Those pieces of legislation will not pass with a Dem Congress. That could mean a tax increase caused by Republicans. Still think the Republicans want to go ahead?
March 18th, 2010 at 2:54 pmTim Vaculik says:
QE,
You forgot that these jokers ALWAYS dismiss polls and highly reputable polling organizations when they simply DON’T LIKE the results!
Wrong again. We disagree upon what the polls actually mean, given the highly charged debate going on. But go ahead with your simplistic take…
March 18th, 2010 at 2:59 pmLevi,
you do not know me, so you can dispense with the labels. Labeling people doesn’t make you appear any smarter, my fruend.
“You failed to answer the question, because you know there is nothing that delegitimizes the use of “deem and pass”.”
well, actually i did answer the question by providing a better context. I am certain that “deem and pass” could be found unconstitutional depending upon how the tactic is used.
You see, just because parliamentary procedures are used by both oarties does not ipso facto make them ‘legitimate’ or Constitutional.
March 18th, 2010 at 3:03 pmBarfly,
OK, I should have said SOME people here…
March 18th, 2010 at 3:05 pmPags2,
It is the particular piece of legislation put into law unconstitutionally that is challenged, not the procedure.
The other laws would not be affected.
March 18th, 2010 at 3:08 pmLevi,
I ask yoy again: what do you think of the Gallup polling, hmmmmm?
Is Gallup a “bias pollster”?
March 18th, 2010 at 3:11 pmTim Vaculik says:
It is the particular piece of legislation put into law unconstitutionally that is challenged, not the procedure.
The other laws would not be affected.
You are wrong. If the lawsuit ends up declaring the procedure unconstitutional then all other legislation passed through this method is void ab initio.
March 18th, 2010 at 3:12 pmHey folks!
I’m still waiting for an answer to the question I posed at #148
March 18th, 2010 at 3:14 pmPags2,
Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough: it is the legislation that is challenged, NOT the actual procedure. The Constitution only speaks to the requirements for a bill to become law. If those requirements are not met, then the law is vulnerable to a court challenge on Constitutional grounds!
Got it?
March 18th, 2010 at 3:18 pmA lot of you must be at lunch, so I’ll be back later to see if anyone has successfully taken on my questions/arguments!
Ciao!
March 18th, 2010 at 3:20 pmTim Vaculik says:
Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough: it is the legislation that is challenged, NOT the actual procedure. The Constitution only speaks to the requirements for a bill to become law. If those requirements are not met, then the law is vulnerable to a court challenge on Constitutional grounds!
There are two potential claims. The law is unconstitutional in substance. The law is unconstitutional by procedure. On the first claim, the states filing the suit will lose based on the Commerce clause. On the second claim, the risk for declaring the procedure unconstitutional would put the other legislation up for a declaratory judgement finding these laws were also passed with an unconstitutional procedure. Take your choice. The courts are not going to void the law on either claim on the basis of judicial restraint. They will bounce the case and say that it is a political decision for the Congress and voters.
March 18th, 2010 at 3:36 pmWhy is is so hard to grasp? Mainly due to it not being true.
If you have an actual valid reason that the bill would be unconstitutional, by all means share it with us. It would be interesting to see an actual argument from the conservatives other than “I dislike it, so it must be illegal”.
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