"All of a sudden Oliver started to put the white robes on." Here is yet more evidence of the fact that getting serious about Islam all too often mean getting more violent. This must be addressed by Muslims and non-Muslims, or it will keep happening. "Men had converted to devout form of Islam, residents say," from the TimesOnline, with thanks to Sr. Soph:
TWO men said to have been arrested changed their appearances after converting to a devout form of Islam, according to neighbours.One is said to be Ibrahim Savant, who became a devout Muslim about seven or eight years ago, according to a friend. He may have been a born Muslim who became more interested in his faith in later years.
Oliver Savant was a popular boy growing up in the terrace of Folkestone Road, Walthamstow. He played football and joined local soccer clubs. But around 1998, when he was a teenager, neighbours said, he began wearing Muslim white gowns and grew a long beard.It was then that Mr Savant, who has a brother, Adam, was understood to have changed his name to Ibrahim, neighbours said. According to the electoral register, a number of males named Savant occupy the home along with a woman called Marilyn Moseley. The family live in one of six 1960s terraced houses at the end of a street of Victorian homes. A number of mosques are in the area and a madrassa, an Islamic school, is run near by.
Paul Kleinman, 66, a retired fireman, said that the family moved into the house in about 1975. “I’ve known him since the day he was born. His dad invited me in for a drink when he was born. We’ve always got on with them very well. Adam and Oliver both went to university but I think Oliver dropped out.
“All of a sudden Oliver started to put the white robes on. He had friends who dressed in a similar way who would visit him. I think his dad’s an architect and is from Iran and his mother is an accountant. His mother’s English. He used to be a keen trumpet player and played to a high level. He’s a very nice and polite young man.”...
Similar accounts came from residents of Hepplewhite Close, High Wycombe. where the other man is said to have changed after converting to Islam. He grew a beard and made different friends. Friends and neighbours who watched him grow up were shocked over his apparent arrest.
A neighbour said that the man still lived with his widowed mother, who was believed to be on holiday. He added that the man and his sister had converted to Islam about a year ago. “He had grown a long beard and had shaved his head. The people he was hanging around with were different.”
So now we have a new phrase, "devout form of islam", but it doesn't change what islam is at the very core.
There is no group more worth suspecting than new converts to Islam. Think about it - those who knowingly choose to convert to Islam know what the goals are, and have apparantly endorsed them (as opposed to those accidentally born into Islam, and may be practicing its rituals for no other reason than they have to). As a result, chances are likely that such converts are more likely to take part in Jihadist activities.
The fact that this is occuring in Infidel countries such as the UK or Canada (remember Steven Vikas Chand?) is frightening. In fact, in the UK, it's become safe for Muslims to trap infidels into their cult - see here, and scroll down to the letter from 'Vijay'.
When it comes to profiling, even if authorities in different countries don't profile Muslims en masse, the least they should do is target each and every convert to Islam. Chances that they'll land a Thomas Haidon is probably one in a million.
"Chances that they'll land a Thomas Haidon is probably one in a million."
Boy, have you been conned.
"Devout",
means they are determined to slaughter as many infidels as possible.
Whether they grow beards and become "devout" or learn tapdancing,visit nightclubs sans telltale signs like "beards",they are all the same and CANNOT be exonerated.
The muslims I am familiar with, are the so called *moderates*.They all have nothing but hatred ,YES, murderous hatred towards all non muslims.
In the Epic Mahabharatha,no clemency is shown to the handwringing kauravas,who do nothing to stop duryodhna and dushasana. (and are annihilated completely).
The onus of weeding out the evil falls on the *peace loving peaceful moderates* among them.Even soundbytes about *peace& peaceful* are but taqqiya strategies.Let us not forget that.
It would be cool if Jihad Watchers could come up with a solution that is viable, i.e.could happen, and prevent jihad. For example, deporting all Muslims is not going to happen! I wouldn't want that to happen either-some British born Muslims in my experience are ok, e.g. go out with Jews, listen to music, reject violence (though I'd prefer they rejected Islam totally). Hugh's suggestion of preventing Muslims from achieving powerful or sensitive positions is slightly more likely, but only if Islam itself was recognised officially as a non-religion, or dangerous cult, i.e. not recognised as a religion. For example banning the koran would probably backfire, like banning a record increasing sales, however somehow this book must be recognised as undesirable by our governments. And short of banning it how can its influence be reduced? Or should it be banned? You have to come up with a solution which is acceptable and likely to happen, and then advocate it, otherwise you will remain watchers, apart from army activity of course. Education a la Spencer has to be a big priority. I've heard some good suggestions on this website e.g supporting biodiesel-to save the troops, along with the planet.
I believe I have converted to a devout form of islamaphobia, charactarized by opening my eyes, seeing the truth and telling others about it.
They were such nice guys. They only wanted to kill the infidels that had it coming...
A khafir converting to Islam should surely make the alarm bells ring. I don't know if any studies have been undertaken to map the strata of Western society that they are recruited from, but there can be little doubt that for any Westerner willingly abandoning the scepticism inherent in our culture for the fatalist, dogmatic outlook of Submission considerable mental control is required. My immediate guess would be that such persons (and I am aware that I say this from a islamohostile point of view) must in one way or the other be deviant according to our cultural norms. Their value as sleeping agents is likely to be minimal, as their faith in a Western context would stick out like a sore thumb.
I had a heated discussion with a family member of mine last night about islam. I was telling him the truth about islam and highlighting several important concepts that we here at JihadWatch understand, but which the media and geneneral public are oblivious to.
For example, i told him the only difference between a moderate muslim and a terrorist is the degree to which they practice what they believe and what stands in the quran and hadith etc.
But, he steadfastly believes that the radicals/terrorists are only a tiny minority of muslims who have MISINTERPRETED the quran/hadith/islam and he doesn't believe me that the quran is literally, littered with violence and hate. He also asked me to show him passages in the quran or hadith or sunnah that are violent or hateful.
Do any of you fellow jihadwatchers, please have a list of hateful/violent verses from the quran/hadith/sunnah? Please...
P.S. of course, i could just give him the whole quran, but something more summarized should be enough proof to open his eyes to see islam the same way we do! Thanks a lot!
I had a heated discussion with a family member of mine last night about islam. I was telling him the truth about islam and highlighting several important concepts that we here at JihadWatch understand, but which the media and general public are oblivious to.
For example, i told him the only difference between a moderate muslim and a terrorist is the degree to which they practice what they believe and what stands in the quran and hadith etc.
But, he steadfastly believes that the radicals/terrorists are only a tiny minority of muslims who have MISINTERPRETED the quran/hadith/islam and he doesn't believe me that the quran is literally, littered with violence and hate. He also asked me to show him passages in the quran or hadith or sunnah that are violent or hateful.
Do any of you fellow jihadwatchers, please have a list of hateful/violent verses from the quran/hadith/sunnah? Please...
P.S. of course, i could just give him the whole quran, but something more summarized should be enough proof to open his eyes to see islam the same way we do! Thanks a lot!
Assalamau-Laikum all
Let us look at this subject of white robes and it’s relationship to Islam.
As you know every able-bodied Muslim who can afford to perform the hajj must do so once in their lifetime.
Once there, men wrap themselves in white sheets and women wear modest white robes. These robes are two pieces of unhemmed white cloth (irham); they are donned before the walk to Mecca. All, rich, poor, kings, queens (no elbow length white gloves allowed), presidents,…all wear the same humble garments, (note the tremendous humality within Islam).
Male and female muslims dress without exposure of intimate body parts as is expressed in the Koran.
"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do." [24:30]
"O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them. That will be better, so that they may be recognized and not annoyed. Allah (SWT) is ever Forgiving, Merciful." [33:59]
Islamic pilgrims spend the night in tents, about 10,000 of which are fireproof (now). These special tents have only just been introduced after a fire last year roared through pilgrims' tents, killing 343 people and injuring 1,500… who can understand the mysteries of Allah SWT.
Dressed in ritual white robes praying, pilgrims listen to sermons on Mount Arafat near Mecca, where the Prophet Mohammed delivered his last sermon 14 centuries ago. Now famous Imams such as Sheikh Ahmad Yassin, the spiritual leader of Hamas gives a sermon.
After this, emotionally charged they join in the ritual stoning of the pillar of temptation to show they have overcome the lure of the devil.
The end of the pilgrimage is marked by the Eid al-Adha or Feast of the Sacrifice. Muslims around the world slaughter sheep and cattle, and donate the meat to the poor…again note the charity & humility within Islam to feed the poor.
The whole journey and the experience must stir emotions never experienced before, and many take it together as family...the white robes make you feel special, integrated to the ummah and to be next to Allah SWT…Mashallah …you have been blessed … this is the wonder of Islam , this is why you too must consider conversion.
Ofcourse, I myself as an Ahmadi am not allowed to go to Hajj (because wrongly in some peoples eyes …the Ahmadi is not considered pure muslim). This is frustrating …but Allah will one day correct these peoples eyesight to 20-20vision …and Alhumdulilla one day the Ahmadi will go to Hajj
…you peoples can help by explaining the Ahmadi vision to your muslim friends and neighbours….thank you for this!
Many pilgrims preserve their ihram carefully. It will be their shroud when they are buried.
I think that these new converts would have gone to Hajj if they are wearing white robes. It is not really the Hajj that turns these (mainly sunni) peoples on sixpence….it is the red mist surrounding their heads…which grows darker by reading Britain’s foreign policy…get that right and hey….we are on the right track to peace.
Sorry about the double post!
When Hindus or Budhists become "more devout" they tend to renounce worldly pleasures and retreat to a mounatin ashram for meditation - in contrast to muslims.
From an earlier article on JW
"Mohamed Elibiary, a Texas-based Muslim activist, said he was upset by the president's latest comments because he was concerned they would stir up resentment of Muslims in America."
I would argue it's the acts of the "Devout Muslims" that stir up resentment, not the President's comments.
This rubbish about they're all diseffected because they don't fit in is precisely because they don't want to fit in. Assimilate or extricate.
Hardly a week goes by without some new outrage from the RoP, be it the beheading of Christian schoolgirls, riots and killings over cartoons, death threats against apostates, bombings in London, Madrid and Mumbai and now this. At least there is one silver lining, as each day goes by, more and more infidels awake from our 323 year slumber (Sept 11, 1683, Gates of Vienna) and realise the threat we face from the RoP. Can't wait for Robert's new book 'The truth about Mo'.
Our broadcast media here in UK are almost rupturing themselves with their contortions not to say the words "Muslim" and "Terrorist" in the same sentence, and the apologists for Islam are in full flight, all the usual nonsense about blaming Palestine and Bush.
For the record, here are the names of 19 suspects reportedly being held by the police after the foiled plot and whose assets the Treasury has sought to have frozen.
Umir Hussain, 24, London E14
Muhammed Usman Saddique, 24, London E17
Waheed Zaman, 22, London E17
Assan Abdullah Khan, 22, London E17
Waseem Kayani, 28, High Wycombe
Waheed Arafat Khan, 24, London E17
Cossor Ali, 24, London E17
Tayib Rauf, 21, Birmingham
Ibrahim Savant, 26, London E17
Osman Adam Khatib, 20, London E17
Shamin Mohammed Uddin, 36, Stoke Newington
Amin Asmin Tariq, 23, London E17
Shazad Khuram Ali, 27, High Wycombe
Tanvir Hussain, 24, London E10
Umar Islam, 28, (born Brian Young) High Wycombe
Assad Sarwar, 25, High Wycombe
Abdullah Ali, 26, London E17
Abdul Muneem Patel, 17, London E5
Nabeel Hussain, 21, Waltham Forest
No further comment.
With Christianity, when you get religious, you go out and hand out Bibles, with Islam when you get islamic you put on bomb belts, go out and kill innocent people. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that ISLAM is dangerous evil cult.
When enough people are killed by this evil cult, governments will be forced by the will of the peope to ban Islam. you don't have to have mass deportations, people will move back to their hell holes or convert.
.it is the red mist surrounding their heads… Naseems that is correctly said by you, that is all muslims have this disease.
now Naseem have you remembered what your ancestors said to you about how they were murdered by muslim oppressors? how they were forced by conversion on them by pain of torture and death. now you ancestors want you to return back to them. Naseem go outside in the bright sunlight, get rid of that fog misty in your head, become human again by leaving the death cult of islam.
Even clean, talented, pleasant Muslims desire to kill you. Any Muslim who is a Muslim following the evil text , the Qu'ran, is a brainwashed moron who will upon the right command will kill. Islam reminds me of the movie "The Manchurian Candidate". Pschylogolical warfare where the participants become killers upon the correct signal given. THe killer may remain dormant for years, and the BANG the signal is given and the killer moves into action undetected and leathal.
Deport all Muslims now, profile now, and ban Muslim Immigration now.
Religious profiling, not racial profiling.
(My commentary) Racial profiling suffers from the following problems:
1) False positives: people who look "Middle Eastern" or "Asian" but aren't Muslims. More than half the Jewish population of Israel falls under this rubric, which is why racial profiling isn't employed in Israel.
2) False negatives: converts to Islam from other races. Nothing to stop a white-skinned, blond-haired, blue-eyed Johan Svensson from converting to Islam and donning the suicide belt.
3) Maintaining the Crafty Apologists for Islamic Radicalism (hat tip: LGF) canard that Islamophobia is racist. We answer that Islam is not a race, so we must act according to that as well.
the Ahmadi is not considered pure muslim
Even non pure Muslims kill as instructed by the evil text, the Qu'ran.
All Muslims who claim to be faithful must do so.
Even non pure Muslims must deceive and take action against the infidel.
All Muslims who claim to be faithful must do so.
Even non pure Muslims must secure places of authority such as polictical office, judgeships, law enforcement positions, and other positions of authority.
All Muslims who claim to be faithful must do so.
All done to insure the total conquest and domination of the infidel.
All Muslims who claim to be faithful must do so.
Ibrahim "idiot" Savant, 26, London E17
They may now have invented the wheel or the zipper, but they sure know how to handle weapons and explosives.
Just saw on the news: newsreader asks leader of British muslim organisation if muslims are outraged about the terrorist acts that had just been avertedby the police. The muslim ummed, and erred, and said um well, actually muslims are angry about what's going on in Lebanon. They are just SO angry about what's happening in Lebanon.
But are they angry about the fact that 20 planes were going to be brought down, and that thousands of people could have been killed? Um, er, well, no they are not angry about that.
Every single mullah that had anything whatsoever to do with this should be lined up against a wall and shot.
How about following islamic rules and simply outlaw conversion? Sorry, that just wouldn't be cricket, now would it?
Naseem/
"...it is the red mist surrounding their heads…which grows darker by reading Britain’s foreign policy…get that right and hey….we are on the right track to peace."
British foreign policy is already correct and supported, according to opinion polls, by over half of the electorate. No further work on British foreign policy, therefore, needs to be done.
The 'red mist' is unacceptable. Those moslems who are unable to control themselves like adults should immediately, and voluntarily, sign into an asylum for those with learning difficulties. If one objects to the foreign policy of one's government one uses the usual civilised routes of dissent. One does not, no matter what your religion, go on some sort of 'red mist' induced rampage and start blowing things and people up. That is simply a barbarian response which, regrettably, is all we have come to expect from moslems.
By the way, the irham does not, and never did, denote humility. It denotes arrogance, and conformity, and mass delusion, and psychosis and mental illness of the deepest kind. Any half way decent psychologist could have told you that.
Dominic.
We all know how contorted the MSM gets when trying to avoid the muslim word in describing anybody associated with these terror plots we hear about, like this latest one.
But now CNN has as its top story, the headline "TIP CAME FROM MUSLIM, to describe a story where a tip about the airline bombing plot came, yee haw, from a muslim informant.
Well there's your proof that the MSM is biased in favor of MUSLIM. They avoid the word muslim if at all possible when they are the bad guys, but if one of them does something even remotely law-abidding, then they trumpet the label MUSLIM from the roof tops.
To DiscipleofJesusChrist:
A paperback easy to read copy of the koran is full of appropriate verses, reams of it is violent-its not hard to find relevant verses.
Naseem says,
'... a fire last year roared through pilgrims' tents, killing 343 people and injuring 1,500… who can understand the mysteries of Allah SWT.'
Well Naseem who can? Let's see by applying a little logic to your statement.
1. Allah (SWT) has limited insight into forthcoming events.
2. Allah (SWT) was preoccupied in other more pressing engagements.
3. Allah (SWT) wanted them to be with him. Dissatisfied by the usual stampede method of collecting souls at hajj, burned them alive and injured another 1500 (to join him at a later date).
4. Allah does not exist.
Takes your choice Naseem, solve the mystery.
I don't think I've ever seen so many Muslims on British TV or heard so many, including people phoning in, on the radio, in the last 24 hours. The MSM has done itself proud. The most striking thing is that the idea of asking forgiveness is totally absent from Muslim culture. I haven't heard a single apology - nor do they lie low and hide their heads in shame: they can't wait to shoot their mouths of to anyone who'll listen. The line is aways the same: only a small minority of Muslims are potential terrorists, British foreign policy is to blame for alienating / enraging young Muslim men, the police have probably trumped the whole thing up, the community is becoming dangerously alienated and has to be treated respectfully or they won't co-operate with the police. As always, those arrested were all nice, quiet, respectable Koran-reading boys.
The only thing you can conclude from all this is that
ISLAM INSTILS MORAL IMBECILITY.
If we didn't have muslims in our societies to begin with we wouldn't need to rely on tips from anyone, muslim or non-muslim, about their terrorist activities because we wouldn't have the damn problem in the first place!
Posted by: americaningermany at August 11, 2006 08:46 AM
Well put! Couldn't have said it better myself!
"the community is becoming dangerously alienated"
Posted by: wallyUK at August 11, 2006 09:02 AM
What a lot of crock...read BS... how arrogant can you get? as if it's our frieking responsibility to intergrate them? AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGG! When OH when is rest of the world going to wake up and smell the coffee??????? i'm feeling some red mist around my head too and some steam coming outta my ears.... but don't worry, i'm not about to go and explode myself... hehe
early morning tv reports the terrorist group was "infiltrated" by MI5 intelligence agency. At least the British are infiltrating. I can only pray other countries are doing the same. Let's force the Islamic thugs to distrust each other.
I wonder if anyone here is going to mention that the tips leading to the arrest of these 24 men came from muslims. There are good muslims and bad muslims. Tips from good muslims led to the arrest of 24 bad muslims.
So true peace-loving muslims should have no trouble turning these losers in to the police, since these "devout converts" are not true muslims. They're apostates, no? Didn't our friend Moe say, "Whoever changes his deen, kill him." i.e. kill muslims who convert, thus spake Allah.
Alternate explanation: The MSM hasn't got a freaking clue.
Other alternate explanation: They're intimidated.
Hmmmmm.
de·vout (d-vout)
adj. de·vout·er, de·vout·est
1. Devoted to religion or to the fulfillment of religious obligations. See Synonyms at religious.
2. Displaying reverence or piety.
3. Sincere; earnest: devout wishes for their success.
So then what 'form' of Islam do the rest of them adhere to?
Is there form non-devoted to their religion or to their religion obligations? Do they not display reverence for their Koran? Are they not sincere in their beliefs?
The headline says it all. ISLAM IS EVIL
Has the British government made any statement whatsoever regarding Muslim immigration to the UK? Are they talking about slowing it down, improving security checks, etc?
Are there any mainstream commentators questioning British immigration policies?
And WTF is "MSM"?
They converted to a "devout" form of Islam? In other words, they were not lapsed or unobservant Muslims, Muslims too busy to be full and dutiful Muslims. They were "devout." They paid attention. They took Islam seriously. They did not need to find a "perverted" view of the religion. They did not need to be persuaded, or to have their minds "hijacked" by those who, so many including President Bush have insisted, have "hijacked a great religion."
They did not read a special Qur'an with special interpolated passages, passages that "perverted" the meaning of True Islam. They did not read some false or inauthentic collection of Hadith, but rather the best collections, the ones most respected, those of Al-Bukhari and Muslim, as one can see by studying what is put up as authoritative at so many Muslim websites. They did not make up stories about the bloody and ruthless career of Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, anymore than the Ayatollah Khomeini "made up" a story about Muhammad consummating his marriage to little Aisha when she was called away from her toys and her swing, to go unto her lord and master, and do as he commanded.
No, they read, and took to heart, Qur'an and Hadith and the model of Muhammad. It taught them everything they needed to know. It told them what so many Muslims believe, that the only distinction that counts is that between those who are Muslims and those who are Infidels. Muslims must work to spread Islam, to destory any barriers to Islam that would prevent its final dominance everywhere, and the rule of Muslims everywhere. This idea appeals and inflames them.
They were especially "devout." But do not be fooled. Do not think that hundreds of millions of other Muslims are not only slightly less "devout." They will attempt to defend, at all costs, those who participate in Jihad, attempt not to denounce them. They will take it as a matter of right, their right, that they should owe no allegiance to Infidels or the Infidel nation-state in which they happen to have settled (and those big American flags so quickly put out, apotropaically, by those Arab gas-station owners in Dearborn and around the country should have fooled no one in their clumsy attempt to ward off what, those Muslim owners knew, would surely be the response of American Infidels because they knew what an orgy of mass-murder would have taken place against Infidels had the positions been reversed, and had an attack, say, by Christioans destroyed whatever skyscrapers may exist in Cairo or Riyadh would have led to murderous mobs attacking Copts in Egypt, and in Saudi Arabia, those foreign Christains temporarily permitted in to serve as wage-slaves to the Saudis.
Think only of this. When you hear of someone who is, or has become, a "devout Christian" that idea pleases you, soothes you. A "devout Christian" who attempts to live by the rules of Christianity, to model himself on Christ, is not only not likely to wish to engage in murder, but is likely to be far more admirable, than he would be had he not become a "devout" Christian.
A "devout Muslim," on the other hand, becomes, for all Infidels, more of a threat than he would be if he were a Muslim who did not take Islam too seriously, whose connection was mainly a filiopietistic one, and refused to participate in, or accept the dangerous division of the world that Islam naturally inculcates.
“All of a sudden Oliver started to put the white robes on."
That makes 2 groups I can think of who 'don white robes' , the KKK and islam.
And they both have SO much in common: hate, ignorace, bias, prejudice, murder, etc.
Stop Convertion to Islam and start dealing with muslims now.
1. No more Arabic/Islamic schools in Western countries.
2. No more religious symbols allowed in schools. No skull-caps, no turbans and no head scarves.
3. No woman should be allowed to cover her face with head scarf or burqa in public or in private. It should be against law.
4. Block all Islamic Jihadist or Wahabist websites.
5. Citizenship to immigrants should be granted conditionally. Those, who betray their country of adoption, should be sent back with their family to their home country (in case of dual-citizenship). Those who do not carry dual citizenship should be sent to sea and dumped there
6. Family of terrorist should be punished for the crimes of the terrorist, along with the terrorist.
7. Terrorists should be prosecuted in fast-paced courts and executed if proven guilty.
8. Those protesting in public, dressed as would-be suicide bombers should be prosecuted and killed (if proven to be found to have any allegiance with the terrorists) even before they kill anybody.
9. Wahabism as religion should be banned in all the western countries.
10. Distribution of Quran should be banned in all western countries.
11. Building mosques should be banned in all the western countries.
12. Tax muslims for being muslims (say 20% extra).
13. Tax muslims more for producing more kids.
14. The remains of suicide bombers will be stitched into pigskin for burial.
Stop Conversion to Islam and start dealing with muslims now.
1. No more Arabic/Islamic schools in Western countries.
2. No more religious symbols allowed in schools. No skull-caps, no turbans and no head scarves.
3. No woman should be allowed to cover her face with head scarf or burqa in public or in private. It should be against law.
4. Block all Islamic Jihadist or Wahabist websites.
5. Citizenship to immigrants should be granted conditionally. Those, who betray their country of adoption, should be sent back with their family to their home country (in case of dual-citizenship). Those who do not carry dual citizenship should be sent to sea and dumped there
6. Family of terrorist should be punished for the crimes of the terrorist, along with the terrorist.
7. Terrorists should be prosecuted in fast-paced courts and executed if proven guilty.
8. Those protesting in public, dressed as would-be suicide bombers should be prosecuted and killed (if proven to be found to have any allegiance with the terrorists) even before they kill anybody.
9. Wahabism as religion should be banned in all the western countries.
10. Distribution of Quran should be banned in all western countries.
11. Building mosques should be banned in all the western countries.
12. Tax muslims for being muslims (say 20% extra).
13. Tax muslims more for producing more kids.
14. The remains of suicide bombers will be stitched into pigskin for burial.
Stop Convertion to Islam and start dealing with muslims now.
1. No more Arabic/Islamic schools in Western countries.
2. No more religious symbols allowed in schools. No skull-caps, no turbans and no head scarves.
3. No woman should be allowed to cover her face with head scarf or burqa in public or in private. It should be against law.
4. Block all Islamic Jihadist or Wahabist websites.
5. Citizenship to immigrants should be granted conditionally. Those, who betray their country of adoption, should be sent back with their family to their home country (in case of dual-citizenship). Those who do not carry dual citizenship should be sent to sea and dumped there
6. Family of terrorist should be punished for the crimes of the terrorist, along with the terrorist.
7. Terrorists should be prosecuted in fast-paced courts and executed if proven guilty.
8. Those protesting in public, dressed as would-be suicide bombers should be prosecuted and killed (if proven to be found to have any allegiance with the terrorists) even before they kill anybody.
9. Wahabism as religion should be banned in all the western countries.
10. Distribution of Quran should be banned in all western countries.
11. Building mosques should be banned in all the western countries.
12. Tax muslims for being muslims (say 20% extra).
13. Tax muslims more for producing more kids.
14. The remains of suicide bombers will be stitched into pigskin for burial.
Stop Conversion to Islam and start dealing with muslims now.
1. No more Arabic/Islamic schools in Western countries.
2. No more religious symbols allowed in schools. No skull-caps, no turbans and no head scarves.
3. No woman should be allowed to cover her face with head scarf or burqa in public or in private. It should be against law.
4. Block all Islamic Jihadist or Wahabist websites.
5. Citizenship to immigrants should be granted conditionally. Those, who betray their country of adoption, should be sent back with their family to their home country (in case of dual-citizenship). Those who do not carry dual citizenship should be sent to sea and dumped there
6. Family of terrorist should be punished for the crimes of the terrorist, along with the terrorist.
7. Terrorists should be prosecuted in fast-paced courts and executed if proven guilty.
8. Those protesting in public, dressed as would-be suicide bombers should be prosecuted and killed (if proven to be found to have any allegiance with the terrorists) even before they kill anybody.
9. Wahabism as religion should be banned in all the western countries.
10. Distribution of Quran should be banned in all western countries.
11. Building mosques should be banned in all the western countries.
12. Tax muslims for being muslims (say 20% extra).
13. Tax muslims more for producing more kids.
14. The remains of suicide bombers will be stitched into pigskin for burial.
Stop Conversion to Islam and start dealing with muslims now.
1. No more Arabic/Islamic schools in Western countries.
2. No more religious symbols allowed in schools. No skull-caps, no turbans and no head scarves.
3. No woman should be allowed to cover her face with head scarf or burqa in public or in private. It should be against law.
4. Block all Islamic Jihadist or Wahabist websites.
5. Citizenship to immigrants should be granted conditionally. Those, who betray their country of adoption, should be sent back with their family to their home country (in case of dual-citizenship). Those who do not carry dual citizenship should be sent to sea and dumped there
6. Family of terrorist should be punished for the crimes of the terrorist, along with the terrorist.
7. Terrorists should be prosecuted in fast-paced courts and executed if proven guilty.
8. Those protesting in public, dressed as would-be suicide bombers should be prosecuted and killed (if proven to be found to have any allegiance with the terrorists) even before they kill anybody.
9. Wahabism as religion should be banned in all the western countries.
10. Distribution of Quran should be banned in all western countries.
11. Building mosques should be banned in all the western countries.
12. Tax muslims for being muslims (say 20% extra).
13. Tax muslims more for producing more kids.
14. The remains of suicide bombers will be stitched into pigskin for burial.
from an article i read:
News from Pakistan itself indicates the main trail from there to Heathrow. British and Pakistani sources linked the plan to the Pakistani government's house arrest of Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, founder of the armed paramilitary movement Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET, or Army of the Righteous). LET, which is designated a terrorist organization by the State Department, is an ally of al Qaeda and is present wherever Pakistani Sunnis congregate and violence is hatched.
In America, LET was behind the Northern Virginia jihad network, whose members were jailed beginning in 2003 and sentenced to varying federal prison terms for terrorism-related acts. LET was also accused in the Bombay train bombings in India last month. It has significant resources in Pakistan, Britain, and elsewhere
"But when one of us converts, you know he's another psycho jihad type!"
-- from a posting above
I think this does not take into account the timing of conversion to Islam. The sad-eyed pederast who on a dig in the Middle East is exposed to the wonders of Islam, and returns home having embraced Islam, in some kind of carefully watered-down fashion, in other words his own private Islam, in which he simply ignores so much of what Islam is all about, and certainly what it is all about for the vast majority of the primitive Muslim masses, and what it has led them to do over 1350 years of Islamic history, is one thing. That kind of convert, who may have "reverted" in 1960, or 1970, or 1980, should be distinguished from the those who convert or "revert" today.
Now that we know, all of us, more about Islam than can quite be squared with received pieties about how "all religions want the same thing" and more in that sappy-sentimental vein, and now that we suspect even more than we know, and that we are quite capable of now of finding out about, through books and websites that have simply gone around the MESA Nostra capture of our university and college departments, where apologetics and not the real thing (who would hire Arthur Jeffery today? C. Snouck Hurgronje? Joseph Schacht? St. Clair Tisdall? Would any of them, or a hundred others, would Ignaz Goldziher himself, be welcome into the brotherhood of nonsense and lies and distracting irrelevancies,, and parti-pris propaganda for Islam and its assorted Lesser Jihads (emphasis on Israel for now, but a growing concern with the imagined creation of an imaginary "European Islam" that will supposedly be so very different from, and so much more appealing than, that other kind of Islam -- you know, the one you find all over the Islamic world, and that rests on the very same texts and traditions that are used to fashion the brains of Muslims in Europe, those same Muslims whom, we are told at MESA meetings and in sly pronouncements by Tariq Ramadan, will lead to that fabulous beast being born, half-man half-animal, "European Islam.
It doesn't exist, and it can't exist, though it is true that more Muslims may, possibly, come to jettison Islam altogether -- but the numbers (10%? 15%?) are far too few to justify Infidels continuing to endure a large-scale and growing Muslim presence that endangers their laws, their lives, their civilization.
Not all "reverts" are necessarily of the "pscyho, Jihad" types. It is true that those who have converted, say, during the past five years, knowing what we all know, are clearly a threat in a way that someone who converted to his own imaginary Islam, an Islam partly constructed of his own hopes and dreams, may not be. Some just want to find the solace of a community, an umma, and like the idea of all that ritual, that submissive salute to Allah. It organizes their day, their lives, and offers an Answer to Everything. For those who do not like what they see as the chaos of life, and the anomie of Western urban life, it may have its points. And there are those who think, incorrectly, that Islam stands for "Social Justice" and are taken in by the notion that Islam is the right vehicle to replace Marxism to express one's alienation from The System, Kapitalism, The Man, and so on and so dreary forth. Obviously, such people have no idea what Muslim regimes are like, or how that blend of inshallah-fatalism, duty to unquestioningly obey the ruler as long as he is a good Muslim, and of course the habit of mental submission that Islam encourages. They do not realize that every Muslim country has a ruling elite far more ruthless in its continued grip on all power, and on its ability to siphon off for its own ends the riches that rightly belong to the country. Nor do many of those who have been targets of Da'wa, such as black prisoners in both Great Britain and the United States, who have no conception either of the role of Muslims in black African slavery, a slave trade that began much earlier, was far more extensive, and claimed far more victims, than the Atlanatic Slave Trade, and was suppressed, where it was suppressed, not by any Muslim William Wilberforce, but only by the pressure of Great Britain (in the Persian Gulf area) and of France in North Africa. Slavey is permanently sanctioned in Islam, and black slaves are still to be found wherever a black and Arab population meet -- most notably in the Sudan and Mauritania and Mali. But this is not known, this is not publicized. One more failure of those who, in the Western world, should be making clear what Islam is all about, and not what it pretends to be. And then there is the matter of the linguistic and cultural imperialism of the Arabs, for which Islam serves as a vehicle: the adoption of Arab names, the turning toward Mecca five times a day, the sedulous aping of the customs and manners of seventh-century Arabs as a model for all time, the indifference or hostility toward one's own non-Islamic or pre-Islamic history, personal and civilizational, as if without Islam, or outside of Islam, nothing is of worth, nothing has value.
I would agree that the assorted collection of psychic freaks -- Richard Reids, John Walker Lindhs, David Hicks, Jose Padilla -- have been insructive. The problem is that there are many such freaks. We have to figure out ways to soak up their stupidity, in ways less inimical to us. Any cult but Islam, any nonsense -- but Islam.
Soaking-Up-the-Stupidity is an important task for Infidels, to prevent still other Infidels of the semi-demented or only-the-lonely variety, from finding their solace in Islam. Let them find it in a thousand things, even other cults or fanaticisms or hobbies, but not in Islam.
"He added that the man and his sister had converted to Islam about a year ago."
Looks like the London carnage of 7-7-05 had a positive effect on him (and her). Disgusting!
Awesome posts Hugh. thanks.
Naseem is reading from the Islamic play book, they must circulate this playbook throughout the moslemah (worldwide community of believers) she blames Islamic terrorism on the foreign policy of western governments... nothing is ever their fault.
I just listened to Milan Rai, co-founder of the groups Justice Not Vengeance and Voices in the Wilderness. His latest book is "7/7: The London Bombings, Islam and the Iraq War."
* Salma Yaqoob, head of the Birmingham Stop the War Coalition and a founder and vice-chair of RESPECT The Unity Coalition in England. This year she won a seat on the city council in Birmingham and became the first elected hijab-wearing councilor in the city. on Democracy Now, saying the same thing, the same b.s. is execreted by CAIR, alternatively CAIR and these "moderate Muslims", rush to the air, as they did on MSNBC this morning, obfuscating and apologizing for members of their community who are caught in the act, and then try to make us feel guilty.
Their excuse for terrorism (which they at the same time deny and obfuscate) is our foreign policy. Think about that, think about millions of Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Catholics and atheists resorting to terrorism because they didn't like this or that aspect of our foreign policy.
B.S. Guilt is a tool which disables the west, but it is ineffective against Islam. Trying to use guilt on Islam is like trying to use a Phillips screwdriver on a slotted screw. Muslims know nothing of guilt, because Islam is perfect and Muslims are always right.
Anyway , thousands of people are expected to converge in Washington, DC Saturday for a demonstration against US support for Israel’s attacks on Lebanon and the Gaza Strip. Organizers are calling the protest the largest mobilization of the Arab-American, Muslim, and U.S. peace movement in more than four years.
Finally I hope that Dubya does not backtrack or apologize, despite the whining and pressures from CAIR etc, for his Islamic Fascist statement.
In fact I think that the Dept of Justice should put CAIR on the terrorist watch list, heavens knows enough of it's members and officers have been indicted and convicted as terrorists.
Better yet decertify Islam as a religion, recertify it as it really is...an ideology, and put it on the Terrorist watch list, remove tax exempt status for mosques, Imams, literature and it will die.
Actually it shouldn't be hard to do at all (reclassify Islam as an ideology and an ideology of terror) all one has to do is to insert into the body of the act, the Qur'an, ahadith, sira and the statements of Imams and prominent muslims.
But that might impact Pat Robertson, Falwell and Phelphs who have a penchant for running off at the mouth about blaming secularism, gays and calling for the assassination of elected presidents of other countries.
Today's Telegraph has a few details about the suspects. Again, it kind of puts to bed the line of 'Oh the poverty', I wish I had grown up in that kind of 'poverty', daddy owning many properties and businesses etc. They will give any excuse other than telling the truth.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=FDRHUGN0RH51HQFIQMFSFF4AVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2006/08/11/nterror11.xml
The only reason the Pakistani government cooperated with the UK is because they knew, that if this plan succeeded, and that there was this major Pakistani connection, and they did nothing about it, that the wrath of Great Britain, and the United States would be thrust upon them.
Thank you MI5 & NSA.
Nariz:
"Their excuse for terrorism (which they at the same time deny and obfuscate) is our foreign policy"
I am sick and tired of hearing this 'excuse' all over the TV today (and many other days). So what if they don't like foriegn policy? Does that mean we are to change policy to accommodate their demands ? Or else we get blown up? Kind of sounds like black mail to me, and the end of democracy/justice/freedom...oh yeh, of course it's the end of democracy/justice/freedom they want, it's Islam
from above:
Salma Yaqoob, head of the Birmingham Stop the War Coalition and a founder and vice-chair of RESPECT The Unity Coalition in England. This year she won a seat on the city council in Birmingham and became the first elected hijab-wearing councilor in the city.
This is one of the items Nasseem has been advocating will happen. She?HE? has often stated that one of the goals of Muslims is to take over the courts and governments.
It a good reason to not allow Muslims hold public office or government positions.
Only bad things can happen if Muslims control anything.
Police fears of threat to Muslims
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4783099.stm
Ahhhh...the PC wonderland of Britian.
Yes, those christians -- those violent, demented christians who hijack planes; blow themselves up and murder others; who lop off the heads of innocent people and sell the video after they have been broadcast on the internet -- those horrible christians -- feared by the police because they pose a threat to muslims?
What kind of PC hemp-weed are the British leaders smoking these days?
You had better shut down those churches -- they may be infested with people who don't believe in islam; and in the PC disney world that you people live in -- thought leads to words and as such are behavior which must be prosecuted as "hate."
Respectfully, you people are:
A. Drunk
B. Nuts
C. Incredibly Stupid
D. In denial
E. I don't know what!!!!!
Naseem,, screw the white robe bullshit. You are ignoring the fact that adherents of your cult have again tried to murder thousands of innocent people to force your religion on the world. Right sick bunch of bastards you people are.
"He was a nice boy, he dressed in white robes, he played soccer, he was good to his mum, he read the koran, he attended mosque regularly, he liked to kill anybody who believed in religions other than islam. "
Fuck you people.
americaningerman: Maybe, just maybe the British cops are using 'protect the Muslims' as a pretext for maintaining a heavy, intimidating presence in their neighborhoods.
Hugh writes:
Actually, much of Hugh's exact same criticism of the Islamic way of life could have been directed at the Soviet Communist way of life, especially under Josef Stalin: In practice, it meant total mental and economic submission to a ruthless oligarchy who controlled everything.
And yet, so many Western intellectuals, college students, etc., rationalized, sympathized with, or in some cases admired, Stalinism. ("You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs," Duranty of the New York Times said.)
I disagree with Hugh that these people don't really know what totalitarian life, be it Stalinist life, or Islamist theocratic life, is like. They know--and they actually like it. In their zeal to promote it in the West, they just hope that you and I don't know.
Why does totalitarianism appeal to so many in Western capitalist democracies? Because democratic capitalism is based on philosophical individualism. You're supposed to think for yourself and fend for yourself. That actually frightens some people. They don't think they have what it takes to make it on their own. Whereas if you swear your allegiance to the Soviet state or to Allah, you are making yourself part of something bigger than yourself. And being part of a great cause, marching with zillions of other people in tandem, is exciting and comforting.
Not everybody fears submission. Some feel comforted by it, since it removes responsibility from their own shoulders and puts their lives in the hands of someone they think they can trust.
Ofcourse, I myself as an Ahmadi am not allowed to go to Hajj (because wrongly in some peoples eyes …the Ahmadi is not considered pure muslim). This is frustrating …but Allah will one day correct these peoples eyesight to 20-20vision …and Alhumdulilla one day the Ahmadi will go to Hajj
…you peoples can help by explaining the Ahmadi vision to your muslim friends and neighbours….thank you for this!
Posted by: Naseem at August 11, 2006 06:15 AM
Naseem, you once commented on the caste-system in Hinduism. Seems that Ahmadi are the 'Shudras' of Islam, except, there are no Shudras in India any more. There is enough legislation and provision in Indian constitution to treat all Indians, including muslims, equally. But, what amazes me is that you have the nerve of asking the inferior 'Infidel' to help you get a higher status in your sick cult. Why? So you can slit 'infidel' throats like rest of your 'muslim brothers' Besides, are we fools to take muslim snakes as 'friends'? You must be out of your mind.
it is the red mist surrounding their heads…which grows darker by reading Britain’s foreign policy…get that right and hey….we are on the right track to peace.
Posted by: Naseem at August 11, 2006 06:15 AM
Again Nseem, instead of thanking British Govt. for supporting Pakistani Jihadis, even at personal risk, you have the nerve of blaming British foreign policy, thus, justifying Jihad thru the back door. Your forked-tongue taquiya bares not only your pervert logic but the grip your sick cult has on educated people like yourself.
Maybe, just maybe the British cops are using 'protect the Muslims' as a pretext for maintaining a heavy, intimidating presence in their neighborhoods.
Oh how I would like to believe this; but if it were true I think the BBC, CNN, and Reuters would have been all over the heavy handed British Cops just like a cheap suit.
Why, we would be treated to a feeding frenzy of faked photos of beatings; grey looking babies; apparent screaming islamic women (mothers all of the grey babies who were dead for days) with hands raised above their heads -- all as testimony to the evil, racist cops, harassing the poor islamic victims of infidel "hate."
Maybe, just maybe, you are right; but somehow I look at the scenario with a decidedly cynical and juandiced view.
Naseem,
Indeed. Americans are not happy with French foreign policy which is why you see hundreds of Americans blowing themselves up in French cafes, airplanes, and markets.
Never mind that Pakistan always seems to play a big role in training most of these thugs, not to mention that PAKISTAN provides so much of the human breeding material (by way of exporting their population to the West) for British-born terrorist monsters in Britain and the rest of the West.
Pakistan is playing a devious double-game and West is playing the 'useful idiot'. Pakistan produces Jihadis more than any other country (Saudi Arabia being a close second). Then, to and ONLY to west, PAkistan plays the 'good cop' by giving intelligence. If you noted, same Pakistan obstructs India's efforts in fighting terror produced by Pakistan. In other words, Pakistan, the 'bad guy' churning Jihadists, also plays the 'good guy' thus covering up it's Jihadi deeds. West, foolishly, praises Pakistan for the 'good cop' role, without asking the basic question:
How come Pakistan produces Jihadists in the first place?
"How come Pakistan produces Jihadists in the first place?"
Because it is an Islamic Republic, hence Jihadists ar a given.
As to why UK born Pakistani muslims are Jihadists, well that is the fault of the west allowing multiculturalism. Is also stems from a racist hatred of "white westerners" nevermid they are killing non-whites and probably even other muslims. They just dont think that deep before they act.
If we didn't have muslims in our societies to begin with we wouldn't need to rely on tips from anyone, muslim or non-muslim, about their terrorist activities because we wouldn't have the damn problem in the first place!
Posted by: americaningermany at August 11, 2006 08:46 AM
muslim snakes, the root of terror, want to be recognized for tips AGAINST terorists? Like americaningermany says, muslims should be ashamed of their terrorist brothers and sisters, in the first place. That muslims are terrorists and tippers, not only proves the roots of terror lie in Islam, but that muslims are foxes, sometimes in sheep's cloathing.
No, americaningermany nor your's truly are fooled by hypocrite muslims.
blow myself up, taking as many jihadis with me as I possibly can....
Oh, keep your bee keeper suit on!
I rather see you stick around (pardon the pun) and post your insights here.
And don't get stung by the PC idiots -- they're just idiots!
BTW, do you prefer orange blossom or clover pollen with your honey?
Remember those sick death cults of a few years back?
Jim Jones. David Koresh. Their silly followers.
Sick wackos. Everybody admitted that they were wacked in the head.
.. incidently, this is the exact analogy that came to my mind. Like you say, only the numbers are different. Which means nothing as the evil lies not in numbers, but in the heart of the sick ideology. Also, West has made the fatal mistake of recognizing this death cult as a 'religion' thus grnting all benefits and protection of a devine faith, which Islam is the opposite of.
So, why can't we finally acknowledge that islam is a sick, demented death cult and work to get rid of it?
.. can't agree more!
Posted by: americaningermany at August 11, 2006 12:31 PM
Another attempt here. to hogwash the world's most dangerous idea - Islam.
First the usual blah blah about the travails of muslim community -
And then comes the punchline -
Yeah, right, just as the 9/11 (New York), 3/11 (Madrid), 7/7 (London), and 7/11 (Mumbai) were all stage-managed by the infidels to malign Islam!Posted by: Nariz at August 11, 2006 11:59 AM. You wrote:
"...Trying to use guilt on Islam is like trying to use a Phillips screwdriver on a slotted screw. Muslims know nothing of guilt, because Islam is perfect and Muslims are always right."
If you are still a Muslim (like I was ten years ago), you must be commended for your views.
My signature name (below) is not my real (birth) name. However I have compulsively chosen this signature name precisely because of the inspiring message in lines you have written above.
My renouncing of Islam (a barbaric religion) came into existence after I read works of Immanuel Kant, and realized that the whole fabric of Islam was baseless. It has no moral or spiritual purity. Islam thrives by threat of damnation in hell. I also read the book by Amir Taheri, Holy Terror: The Inside Story of Islamic Terrorism, and realized the falsehood of Islam. It was a painful realization, but I have now managed to get over it.
It is heartwrenching to see a large part of human beings (Muslims) led astray (compulsively) by a very violent and barbaric dogma (Islam). However, to me it is like watching a human being dying slowly of some form of incurable cancer. You have to watch and realize that you can do nothing.
Anyway, I appreciate your post and hope that if reason and rationality prevails, you would also convert out of Islam and become a complete human being. You are already there, you just have to stretch your hand and help shall arrive.
Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal
The "converts" must have had a difficulty establishing a relationship with real females. They found out Islam allows for sex slaves, spousal abuse and they kill the girl if she cries "rape!"
Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal, you are a brave man to break away from Islam as you've done, indeed much braver than the unthinking robots who blow themselves and others up for Allah (just an aside here but what kind of God would approve of such barbaric actions?)
Reading your post should remind us all again to focus our criticisms on Islam and not on the poor souls who are born into it and cannot find their way out.