No surprise here, since this law was designed by British dhimmis to silence critics of jihad, not jihadists. From, of all places, the New York Times, with thanks to all who sent this in:
LONDON, Aug. 20 — From his home on the northwest edge of this city, Muhamad al-Massari runs a Web site that celebrates the violent death of British and American soldiers. It is visited by tens of thousands of people every day, he said.Mr. Massari maintains the Arabic-language site, tajdeed.org.uk, in the face of a strict new law aimed at curtailing violent speech and publishing. Just last week, the Council of Holy Warriors, a group affiliated with Al Qaeda, posted a declaration on the site praising a suicide bombing in Iraq that killed or wounded 55 people.
“If you kill our civilians, we kill your civilians,” Mr. Massari declared during an interview.
Mr. Massari’s Web site, and his public remarks, appear to violate of the Antiterrorism Act of 2006, which makes it a crime to glorify or encourage political violence. Inciting violence has long been illegal here but the new rules, drawn up after the London subway and bus bombings in July 2005, are intended to be much tougher.
The law’s underlying assumption is that speeches and publications by Britain’s more extreme Islamists may play a role in leading disgruntled young men toward violence. In addition to banning speech that encourages terrorism, the new law also criminalizes reckless speech that may have the same effect.
Yet despite the antiglorification law, and an array of other measures approved since last summer’s bombings, Islamist leaders like Mr. Massari persist, some of them declaring it the duty of British Muslims to kill in the name of Islam.
Some British leaders are beginning to publicly question why such clerics are allowed to continue. Last week, David Cameron, the leader of the Conservative Party, chastised the government of Prime Minister Tony Blair for failing to enforce laws intended to make it more difficult for political extremists to operate.
In remarks to the press, Mr. Cameron, a possible successor to Mr. Blair, accused the government of failing to “follow through when the headlines have moved on.”
“I do not believe that our government is doing enough to fight Islamist extremists at home or to protect our security,’’ he said. “Why have so few, if any, preachers of hate been prosecuted or expelled, with those that have gone having done so voluntarily?”
In addition to curtailing political speech, the British government outlawed 15 militant groups, most of them Muslim. It took a sterner attitude toward Islamists who had preached violence in the past, barring one well-known Syrian-born cleric, Omar Bakri Mohammed, from returning to the country. Earlier this year, it secured the conviction of Abu Hamza al-Masri, the country’s most militant cleric, for soliciting murder and racial hatred.
Yet for all those actions, the new measures do not appear to have silenced those either praising or calling for violence in the name of Islam. Some Islamist preachers have carefully scaled back their language, even if, in context, the meaning seems clear.
On Sunday, speaking before 8,000 followers in Manchester, Azam Tamimi extolled the glories of suffering for the faith.
“The greatest act of martyrdom is standing up for that is true and just,” Mr. Tamimi said. “Martyrs are those who stand up in defiance of George Bush and Tony Blair.”
The remarks by Mr. Tamimi, one in a line of Islamist scholars and clerics to address the Manchester crowd, were the latest in a series of carefully worded public statements by British Islamist leaders that seemed aimed at testing the limits of the new law. In the Islamic world, “martyrdom” means sacrificing one’s life, often violently, for the faith.
Others, meanwhile, have carried on as before, speaking in support of political violence or publishing tracts that do the same.
One of them is Atilla Ahmet, leader of the Islamist group Supporters of Shariah. In meetings with supporters and in interviews, the British-born Mr. Ahmet speaks freely about what he considers the necessity for violent action, both here and abroad, to avenge what he considers unjustified attacks on Muslims abroad.
“You are attacking our people in Muslim countries, in Iraq, in Afghanistan,’’ Mr. Ahmet said, referring to the British and American governments. “So it’s legitimate to attack British soldiers and policemen, government officials, and even the White House.”
Mr. Ahmet, a 42-year Briton of Cypriot descent, went on to include bank employees as legitimate targets “because they charge interest,” which he says is in violation of Islamic law.
Mr. Ahmet said he is aware of the new law, but that he could not shirk his duty to defend Islam, which he believes is under assault by Britain and the United States in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. He says he often addresses his followers, who he says number 3,000.
“If you are going to kill a Muslim, then I will do everything in my power to kill you,’’ he said.
Mr. Massari, the Web site operator, said he approved of violence against British and American soldiers in Iraq, as well as against most of the governments in the Middle East. He said, for instance, that it “is legitimate for Iraqis to kill Tony Blair, the same with Bush.’’
The posting on his Web site about the Iraqi bombing said of the attackers, “We ask God to accept our brothers as martyrs.’’
Mr. Massari makes several distinctions that he says insulate him from being deported or prosecuted by the British government. He says, for instance, that he does not post any material on the Web site himself; he lets his members do that, most of whom sign up anonymously. The other important distinction, he said, is that he does not call for violence in Britain....
Asked why no one had been arrested or prosecuted for encouraging terrorism, a spokesman for Scotland Yard, the national police force, declined to comment.
Sure. What can they say? "We're spineless, terrified, cringing dhimmis"?
The Bush administration, under laws toughened after the Sept. 11 attacks, has prosecuted a number of people for encouraging terrorism.In one of the more high-profile cases, a Muslim scholar in northern Virginia, Ali al-Timimi, was sentenced to life in prison in 2005 for urging his young Muslim followers to wage war against the United States overseas.
At a dinner meeting on Sept. 16, 2001, Mr. Timimi told some of the men in the group that it was their Muslim duty to fight for Islam overseas and to defend the Taliban in Afghanistan against American forces, according to testimony at his trial. In an Internet message in 2003, he described the destruction of the space shuttle Columbia as a “good omen” for Muslims in an apocalyptic conflict with the West....
“Anyone who supports Tony Blair,’’ said Khalid Kelley, an Irish-born convert to Islam, “is not a civilian.’’
Remember that one the next time a "moderate Muslim" assures you that Islam forbids the killing of civilians.
I'm beginning to believe muslims are the original airheads. This loud mouth nut says it's ok to target bank employees because they charge interest. No, dimwit, the BANK charges interest, not the employees, they just work there. If you don't like it, don't put your money in it.
And of course it's ok to kill non muslims. Again, the dimwit speaks. If it weren't for the non muslims, you'd be hungry, unable to call your wives on the phone, post on the internet, have to walk, and of course, still be in the cesspool in the middle east.
These people just don't realize how great we non muslims have made it for them and then in turn, they want to kill us.
Some gratitude.
at this point all xenophobic movements should be declared legal (especially the ones into murdering muslims of course) because of what muslims did to non muslims during islamic imperialism.
I cannot accept this double standard anymore.
If the government cannot stop this delirium, at least let other xenophobic movement do their thing.
Problem is - Islam is abusing the rights and amenities of the free world. Right to free speech was a right to criticise without fear, and encourage creativity. Islam has turned it into a freedom to spread hatred. It is time we tackled the hate spreading machine. If it means closing down all Muslim charities, so be it. If it means closing down mosques, so be it. We cannot simply allow our freedoms to be abused like this. Finally, we should force Islamic countries to stop teaching hatred in their own countries - under whatever threats it takes to enforce that.
went on to include bank employees as legitimate targets “because they charge interest,” which he says is in violation of Islamic law.
- just more proof that islamic law is required for everyone even non-muslims.
“If you kill our civilians, we kill your civilians-
He is not a citizen of Britain, but a citizen of the umma. He cannot be a loyal citizen of a nation. Any nation.
The real trouble here is that Tony Blair has found himself caught between a rock and a hard place. He has to deal with idiots such as that Galway character who has openly been associating with the most violent of the Muslims. He also has to deal with the moonbat lefties who are his constituents, most of whom believe what they hear on Channel 4. He comes across as being almost strong, and then he spoils the strength that he occasionally shows by acting like a Dhimmi and backing down from taking a stronger stand against the Islamists. It is almost as if Blair and the Labour Party are playing the game of keeping themselves in power because these Islamists actually vote for them.
The dhimmi behaviour of Blair and his government reminds me of the appeasement of Neville Chamberlain in the 1930s. (I am not that old but did learn about him through history lessons). Chamberlain's appeasement almost sold out Great Britain, and yes it contributed to the sell out of Europe to Hitler.
There is nothing new under the sun, and the violence that these men are advocating should be sufficient to have them locked in the Tower of London (off with their heads as they are traitors of the nation.)
Maggie
Muhammad al-Massari runs the Committee for the Legitmate Defense and his website tajdeed(which has been shut down in the past) is a well-known watering hole/communications exchange for jihadists types. Massari calls himself the
"ideological voice" for Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. All in theory, you understand, he claims to have never actually MET any terrorists (Massari is also a theoretical physicist). Think of him as the Ivan Karamazov of Islamic terror with
thousands of Smerdyakovs he bears no responsibility for.
Massari IS wanted back home by the Saudis for a role he may have had in a plot to assassinate
Crown Prince Abdullah. Obviously, the British have leverage if they choose to use it with the Professor.
An aside: Massari's website was created by his son Majid, who until recently worked at the University of Washington. An affable, very popular computer instructor working at the Nursing School (detecting computer viruses) who was arrested last year and is in the process of being deported (Visa violation, possession of crack cocaine). According to his lawyer, he is being deported because of his daddy and because of his political beliefs, he had attracted the notice of authorities for postings on Islamist websites, his frequent quoting of Bin Laden and for lashing out against American foreign policy on his father's London radio show (is that still up and running?). He was also accused of a "meeting with" Saad Rasheed Mohammed al-Faqih, a financier of the '98 East African bombings. Majid Massari was invoking the Conventions Against Torture Agreement to prevent being deported back to Saudi Arabi where his lawyer claimed he would be surely killed or tortured. The Saudis denied having anything against the younger Massari... and some of the Royal Family were actually looking forward to sampling his crack.
Shows to go you how dumb muslims really are.. you can google Islamic Economics or Islamic Banking, there is a wikipedia entry for same...
Islamic banks DO charge interest, but they get around it by calling it "profit rate" or "rate of return" or in the case of major loans, like mortgages or cars, they front load the interest, thus laying on a disability to the lender.
In "Jewish" Banking (i.e. western banking) a borrower can pay off a loan early and save thousands, tens or hundreds of thousands in unearned interest, but not in Islamic banking..they front load the interest and you take out a loan which includes the "profit rate" or interest.. and are stuck with principal plus "profit rate" even if you try to pay it off early..it is a scam, and only a stupid muslim would fall for it.
Ssshhh! Not too loud. We don't want to wake Tony, do we.
Hats off to the UK. It may be home to a growing number of jihadists; some muslims enjoy the fact that they can't be deported; imams are free to preach their hate; the UK government has failed to deport a long list of people after the train bombs; a festering social problem is gaining in size; but the UK has the rule of law where even if you want to destroy the UK the courts will uphold your right to do so. What an impuissant country the UK has become. Some real internicine is heading its way and all the government is worried about is the rule of law. It might be time to ask the people for the constitution to be suspended and judges sidelined in order to deal with the cancer now.
Ralph Waldo Emerson, from 1856; The English derive their pedigree from such a range of nationalities, that there needs sea-room and land-room to unfold the varieties of talent and character. Perhaps the ocean serves as a galvanic battery to distribute acids at one pole, and alkalies at the other. So England tends to accumulate her liberals in America, and her conservatives at London.
A new fan after Francis' post last night. How things change.
I understood Shariah banking differently. I knew that they charge a flat fee upfront (no idea how much it is), irrespective of the magnitude or the duration of the loan, and that it is to be returned at convinience.
If UK ends up having Muslim-only banks that honor these Shariah requirements, it'd actually be preferrable to mainstream banks, such as Lloyds or Natwest, having one set of interest rates for Infidels, and a totally different rulebook for Muslims. As I once pointed out, when a bank does this, its Infidel customers, who pay interests on loans that they take out, are actually subsidizing the Muslim customers, who wouldn't pay any interest. Not only do the Infidel customers therefore get a lower ROI, but Infidel investors/shareholders in the company (assuming that it is a PLC) get a lower ROI or dividends on their investments.
What does one call it when Infidels subsidize Muslims? Starts with a 'J', a 'z' in the middle, ends with an 'a'!!!
Words mean nothing if not backed up by real consequences. The combination doesn't work for children, the forces of Hizbullah and Hamas nor will it work against nations like Iran and North Korea.
What can we expect from this Govt ....it rolls over and promotes our so called moderates to Sir's and Lords serving halal cucumber sandwiches at our expense. Strawman playing dhimmi for votes and left wing multicultural halfwits running our town halls.
AND still the majority of the working classes believe
Labour is representing them and vote just like Daddy did before them.
This political party has been the biggest plague in our inner cities since the war ....why should it enforce the rule of decency and law when its sucess has bent almost every form of decency known.
It has systematically destroyed our cultural mores and heritage , allowed our borders to be overrun by asylum seekers and immigrants and provided them with benifits out of all proportion to their needs and entitlement.
If we speak up we are racist and phobic and Yes we will be jailed...but let the incomers say and do as they want , let them rant and rave and threaten to kill and maim us ...let them walk our streets waving placards of violence and hate after all
they are only expressing THEIR CULTURE !!
I am ashamed to be a descendant of the millions of
ordinary decent people who fought and died for our Freedoms today against the Nazis just so we can slither around pretending it does not offend us.
A country fit for Heroes.....was the promise
It makes me puke to allow these sub humans to live amongst us and do nothing !!
(i do of course mean the traitors and not the many
decent folk of all races that have worked hard and
given so much in pursuit of our countries values)
kelticman
I know exactly how you feel - I gave up on the island a few years ago and moved out - sorry to do it but the best move I made - the UK is heading for a terrible future - E. Powel was right - rivers of blood - but by the time the civil strife becomes that bad it will be too late for britain - the chattering classes are cowards to a man and have sold out the population but its no more than they deserve for not standing up for their way of life. I could go on......
Johnmac
Must admit Posting as strong as this made me really think long and hard ......however the last straw for me was the fact that the anti Tuberculosis vaccine (The BCG) was withdrawn from all caucasian children at school. Meaning my kids do without while it is given to all children of the indian sub continents
and third world countries even if they are born here.
If they have Grandparents that immigrated or they visit home they will be protected but ours wont. That means my daughters friend will be vaccinated but she wont. Despite the fact that there is an increase in TB coming from immigrants in the inner cities and several high pfrofile cases recently she is not at risk. Can you imagine if this situation was reversed.
Considering TB was a scourge a few decades ago among our indigenous population and is a disease that thrives in high density inner city poverty stricken areas and that these children all mix in high density at schools etc
It beggars belief talk about discrimmination..
Biological weapons they already have em !!
We too are seriously considering leaving ..my compliments sir !!
I think Melanie Phillips in her recent article in the National Review "Suicide of the West" explains why the UK has become a place where "freedom of speech" protects those who support terror in the name of Islam, and sanctions those who criticise that aspect of Islam.
1. the denial of the religious nature underlying the current state of world war (jihaddist acting locally, but thinking globally); and
2. the BBC's extremely biased reporting including:
a) its repeated representation of Israel's defensive actions as unwarranted acts of aggression;
b)its portrayal of the Brit government as the witless lap-dog of the US and Israel; and
c)"giving air-time to an endless procession of Islamic jihadists, propagandists, anti-Western activists and bigots with rarely even a hint of a challenge."
“The greatest act of martyrdom is standing up for that is true and just,” Mr. Tamimi said. “Martyrs are those who stand up in defiance of George Bush and Tony Blair.”
...........
"Standing up"? Somehow I doubt that they mean to designate as "Martyrs" someone who stands around at a demonstration holding a "Bush Lied, People Died" sign. I bet he has something a bit more violent in mind.
................
Mr. Ahmet, a 42-year Briton of Cypriot descent, went on to include bank employees as legitimate targets “because they charge interest,” which he says is in violation of Islamic law.
...............
This is another reason that the Muslim world is so backward. Being able to charge a reasonable rate of interest on loans is one of the bulwarks of free enterprise. My husband and I were able to buy a home a few years ago (our first) because of access to interest loans. We never could have paid cash for our house. Other big ticket items like new cars, business start-ups and expansions, even education is often funded through borrowed money.
The Christian west had the same taboos on interest as Islam in its early years. By the late Middle Ages merchants were borrowing from non-Christians--usually Jews. Some years later saw the rise of great banking houses in Italy, such as the Medici family. I don't think it's coincidence that this marked the beginning of the spread of commerce and rise in innovation and standard of living that Europe would experience, even before the Industrial Revolution.
Ironically, while charging interest was considered immoral, many people in pre-Rennaissance Europe and in the Muslim world seem to have no problem with gaining booty and loot by violent means--robbery, sacking, extortion, and ransom.
If it wasn't for oil wealth, the Muslim world would be entirely poor and stagnant, as it mostly is anyway.
People who are paid to pass laws then fail to make them workable are guilty of obtaining money and services by deception.
The British lawmakers are a fraudulent lot, they fraudulently claim expenses, housing allowance for property that doesn't exist and give unfair advantage to companies which donate money to their party.
Of course they won't do anything about jihadis making threats to kill and inciting terrorism. The law is too weak to be of any use and is generally held in contempt by the majority of the population which does not walk around in nightshirts and pointy sandals.
The only people who can do anything about the terrorists and those who support them are the people themselves, the government and their agencies are no longer working for the British people, they are traitors, they will be remembered as such.