'Do your attacks now' message triggered arrests

CNN presents:

A whining, hijabbed female lawyer complainig about the 'poor' icarcerated would be hijacker/mass-murderers, who "have no access to information, have no warm clothing in their cells.." etc.
Is it not summver in England?

As a Brit and proud of it, I have reached a point of utter dispair. This is nothing more than window dressing to put the Pakistanian government in a good light.Nothing will change until the British Government reconises that the problem is ISLAM.

Hi Sheik,

It is indeed summer but we've had a very cool rainy day here in London. Let's hope they're shivering their little butts of while they rue the fact that the promised hot date with their dewy eyed virgins/raisins did not materialise.

Greetings,

PJS

I totally agree, Holger. Because Pakistan is capable of generating an endless supply of bombmakers, it now has a new "export" with which to gain currency in the international community. All they have to do is keep turning in more of these bombers, which they themselves keep generating, and they will be able to garner more and more praise for themselves.

This looks like a Protection Racket to me.

RasoolaShaytan,

They'd never be able to take over the galaxy. They would never be able to reverse engineer the UFO's captured in Area 51. They'd be too busy praying to Allah. I think at this point the muslims are about 500 years from producing a bicycle.

Think about this, in the US, if the Dhimmicrats were in power, there would be no listening for intelligence gathering purposes. The FBI and NSA could not share information, and 3000 people would be destined for the deep six.

At least some things are working, so far that is.

June 25, 2006 NYT article by Christopher Caldwell contained hints

The recent incident (British Muslioms of Pakisatni dsescent trying to blow up US-bound airliners) may have been guessed by the astute readers of the most liberal mouthpiece of USA - New York Times - from this newsitem. (This is a long, 9 page article.)

After Londonistan

I remain outraged that UK Muslims (minoity) think that terror is a justified weapon to pressure UK to change its foreign policy, when the UK Govt. is represented by the majority (non-Muslims). If this continues, then we might as well call London as "Londonistan" as the NYT article suggests.

Shame !

Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal

I'm pleased that they were able to intercept the message and decode it in time.

Did anyone notice this headline on CNN?

Thousands of people gathered across from the White House on Saturday, even though the president was out of town, to condemn U.S. and Israeli policies in the Middle East.

My my....so they CAN speak up when it suits them! They just can't every speak up in protest to terrorism!

Their silence on terrorism says it all.

Pakistan's Complicity in Shielding Lashkar-e-Tayiba and Hizb-ul-Mujahadseen militants - Islamic Facists

We often hear that Pakistan is an ally of the West on terror, post 9/11. Pakistan had officially recognized Taliban under Benazir Bhutto's rule in 1996. After that Nawaz Sharif and Pervez Musharraf, continued support till George Bush started to tell Musharraf to make a volte face.

India's Kashmir, a flashpoint in this war since 1947, had been a focal point. Militants are getting a dry run to enter the operations that Osama bin Laden (and Allah) has planned for them -to fight the ultimate war against the West, by training in Kashmir. Killing innocent civilians.

The cowardice (dhimmitude) of the Indians and their elected Government is an illustrious case in history. India cannot force Pakistan to hand over the militants - not as I post this message on JW. There is enormous posturing and hand wringing. Obviously India is not Israel. With Pakistan declaring that it would nuke India first at the slightest provocation, India is running scared like a rabbit post 7/11.

The Hizb-ul-Mujahadeen chief thinks that he is safe and happy in Pakistan and can continue to commit mayhem and murder as he wills. Pakistan would dare not hand him over to India.

The complete link is here.

Hizb-ul-Mujahaden Supremo, Syed Salahuddin: "No one can hand me over to India".

Thus terrorism in India shall continue unabated, PoK backed militants shall act with impunity, and India shall tremble cowradly like a lamb to the slaughter.

However, at the same time Pakistan shall continue to aid USA and UK by arresting militants to be in their good books and let India bleed.

Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal

There is a country that has figured in every terror attack on the West since the WTC attack in 1993. By a remarkable coincidence, this country is also the West's greatest ally in terror.

Logic 101 teaches us
(x and (not x)) is a contradiction

Until Pakistans nuclear arsenal (which gives them the boldness to plan terror attacks on India and the West) is neutralized, there can be no respite from terror. There is a cost involved in this but it will earn a period of peace for the world. There was a cost involved in India's 1971 dismemberment of Pakistan but it gave India two decades of peace in which to develop its economy. If world economies have to develop without worrying about terror, then the terror factories have to be neutralized whatever the cost

I had goofed by providing a dead link from NYT. The accessible link is here. Regret my typos.

US Anti-Terror Laws Weaker Than UK ?

The Goobs wrote:

"I was SICK of Islam in the UK and that played a MAJOR part in our decision to move here."

Welcome back home, brother ! I believe that the first thing we can do is to stop all Muslim immigration (F-1, H-1B visas, Green card, citizenship) to USA. If Muslim population swells in USA, then their votes shall matter. That could mean change in the Congress, and eventual roll back of the US Constitutional freedoms etc., after they have become a visible minority. The timid protests as one reads at the CNN link

Protesters Condemn US and Israeli Policies

shall turn violent, before vanishingh altogether. The possibility of protests vanishing (by Lebanese Americans) exists because sooner or later the Muslim majority would shift US policy on Israel by becoming more pro-Arab. That would mean free flow of fundamentalist Wahabi Islamic ideology into USA.

Scary thought ? Yes. We need to do something NOW !

BTW, if you are still doubting by my signature name, I am no longer a Muslim since past 10 years now. I am happy to have left the barbaric religion.

Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal

President Pervez Musharraf :
"Islamic civilization is the most illiterate, most backward, most unhealthy, most unenlightened, most deprived and weakest of all the human race." No amount of intellectual acrobatics performed by Muslim apologists can justify the intolerant and ruthlessness of Muhammad's religion.

Way to go British!!! Way to go IDF!!!

"Nothing will change until the British Government reconises that the problem is ISLAM."

Correction: Nothing will change until the entire West recognises this.

Concur with Englishblondie re smuggling secretions.

Therefor all muslims should be required to show their orifices or have them inspected before boarding any Western flight, and they should be required to pay a surcharge for this inspection as their religion of hate created this problem.

Humiliating ? No, just good sense.

Have we ever seen the "captured terrorists" from pakistan ? Like the eternal 72 virgins, these are probably the recycled 17 terrorist arrested, blah blah blah

On NPR this morning, at about 10:45 EST Julian Marshall interviewed "Lord" Ahmad (given his title for services to curry) who proceeded to tell the plummy-voiced Marshall that he, "Lord" Ahmad, and all the other Muslims who had signed an indignant letter expressing their outrage at the British government, their justifed fury, their hardly-veiled warning of more terror plots and simliar acts to come, if the British govgernnment did not snap to and cease in every way to conduct a foreign policy in any way inimical to those Muslims, and their view of the universe.

Ahmad, a Muslim and a British citizen of Pakistani origin, apparently thinks Hezbollah is swell, and its 13,000-15,000 missiles carefully sent by Iran for deployment all over Lebanon for obvious use against Israel, not even worth mentioning. The only thing worth mentiong, in "Lord" Ahmad's view, was the fact that Israel had to this, and had to that, and hadn't acted to the satisfaction of him, Lord Ahmad, and all those other Muslims who happened to live in England and so, in their own view, were entitled to dictate British foreign policy. Israel "must" yield to the government of Lebanon, riddled with Hezbollah sympathizers or those who are known throughout Lebanon as the most craven of Syrian hirelings, such as Emile Lahoud, or the merely pusillanimous, as that formerly unkonwn technocrat Fouad Siniora has proven himself so sickenly to be, ignoring what he knows perfectly well is the nightmarish fasistic goose-stepping military cult of Hezbollah (supplemented but hardly justified by its own civil side and public works, no different from that that that draining-the-Pontine-marshes or building-the-autobahnend stuff that Mussolini, and Hitler, respectively, used to justify their fascism, or in the case of Hitler, fascism plus racism plus totalitarianism beyond anything conceivable in Italy).

And Israel "must" give up the Golan Heights, and Israel "must" do thus and so, lest these Muslims, these Pakistanis who happen to have acquired, by naturalization, or by an accident of birth, British citizenship, but owe no loyalty to the laws, customs, ways, civilization of Infidel Great Britain, and could not, to the extent that they remain Believers, ever do so, become "angry" and "frustrated" and when they are "angry" and when they are "frustrated" they may be led to do certain things -- things like planning to blow up ten civilian airliners flying from England to America.

And "Lord" Ahmad minced no words. It was largely because of Israel's fighting against Hezbollah, its outrageous refusal to roll over and play dead, as "Lord" Ahmad and his fellows hope that Her Majesty's Government will do, that the bombing plot, that "so-called" bombing plot, was hatched in the first place.

Now a moment's thought should have told Julian Marshall what he should, at that moment, say. A decent interviewer, one unwilling to simply listen to, without objection, total nonsense, would at that point have asked the obivous question.

What was that obvious question? It was: "But Lord Ahmad, how is that the plot to explode ten airliners in midair, with possibly 300-400 people on each airplane, could be attributed to Israel's actions in Lebanon, which began a few weeks ago, while according to the police the bomb plot was hatched a year or more ago? How could that possibly be?"

That is what Julian Marshall should have said. That is what the BBC should be doing -- to point out the most outrageous and obvious nonsense. And while Marshall was at it, at long last doing his duty to listeners, he might have noted that if Muslims from Pakistan are outraged about the Golan Heights, and about the West Bank, and about Gaza, and about Shebaa Farms, then just possibly the war against Israel is not really about "two tiny peoples" struggling over the "same land." Just possibly that "struggle" is the classic Jihad, the Jihad supported by Muslims everywhere, to make sure that no Infidel sovereign state can conceivably be permanently tolerated -- not in the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean, not in the Iberian Peninsula, not in Sicily, not in Greece or the Balkans or Bulgaria or Rumania or much of Hungary, not in Kashmir and not even in almost all of present-day India, which was once under Muslim rule, once part of Dar al-Islam, and so, according to Muslim doctrine, absolutely must be again.

And then, had Julian Marshall bethought himself, he might have added one or two other questions for Lord Ahmad. Did Lord Ahmad agree with Muhammad when he said "war is deception" and did he think that Jihad to make sure that Islam spread all over the globe until it everywhere dominated, and until Muslims ruled, also applied to Great Britain and the other countries of Wesetern Europe, and did he, Lord Ahmad, take seriously the duty incumbent on all Muslims, to participate in, either individually or collectively, in that Jihad -- making use of course of whatever instruments including but hardly limited to violence, that proved most effective, including the money weapon, Da'wa, and demographic conquest -- to spread Islam until all obstacles to it had been everywhere removed, so that it might assume its rightful role and the Believers their rightful place, everywhere?

Was that beyond what Julian Marshall and the others think they should be asking? Are those questions not to be asked of Lord Ahmad when he comes on the air to announce his lordly displeasure, and that of other important Muslims and Muslim groups, with British foreign policy, with Western foreign policy, with all the things that make Muslims angry, and when they get angry, they are liable to do all kinds of things, or try to do them...

Was it?

Are we expecting too much of the BBC? Are we asking too much of Bush House?

I used to watch the BBC, whatever happened to it - IT SUCKS! Its so one sided its amazing it can even be a tv news channel. Its even worse then the media in the US, as hard as that is to believe.

I am so tired of the Muslims saying its everyone elses fault...bullshit. Act like humans and be treated like a human.

Nothing will change until the entire West recognises that ISLAM is a death cult!

Islam for peace means = Rape for virginity!

For my sins I have German relatives - before the last world war I also had German Jewish relatives, but we all know what happened there - and earlier today I was reminded by one of my German relatives (Sudetendeutsch actually - but the explanation of that belongs to the history of WW II) of a particular German slogan from WW I, "Heute gehort uns Deutschland - morgen die ganze Welt. Roughly translated it means 'Today Germany belongs to us - tomorrow the whole world'.

According to my relative, moslems in Germany are now twisting that slogan and chanting "Heute gehort uns islam - morgen die ganze Welt" which roughly translates as 'Today the ummah belongs to us - tomorrow the whole world'. She first heard this in Dresden (please, don't go there: Dresden and Coventry are part of the past for we British and Germans) when large numbers of moslems marched in protest against the German parliament's attempt to define German citizenship; but recently she has heard it used by moslems on many occasions when they have been protesting in Germany. That it scares her is obvious. That she, and many other Germans are, rightly, angry about this seems to have escaped the barbarian moslem horde completely.

Naturally, I explained a little about previous moslem support for the Nazis. This she already knew and she indicated that many Germans already know it too. However, as she pointed out, it is a very worrying development but one which, she claims, is finally beginning to wake up many of her friends and our relatives. I hope so.

My feelings on all this? Well, to quote Goethe: "Meine Ruh' ist hin, Mein Herz ist schwer."

Dominic.

Sheik
That lawyer sounds like Mudassar Arani-same sour faced, Black Burka Bird of ill Prey who has represented U.K's Jihadis to the tune of over a million dollars in Legal Aid Fees from Dhimmi Blair Government!
As to latest 'Wannabe' Jihardists- heard on Fox News last night two of 'em were women;one pregnant,other with a six months baby. One of English converts is the son of a prominent Conservative Party supporter-guess Daddy wasn't worried about his son joining the 'Religion of Peace',huh.
Ten other disgruntled 'Britons' at least are on the run or would suspect are hiding out in Safe Houses until they can be smuggled out of Britain.
Even viewers at BBC noticed the scarcely veiled threat of Britain's Muslim leaders-read comments in 'Have Your Say.'
Am so glad thousands of innocent Civilians have been spared the horrible fate of being burnt alive but there will be OTHER ATTACKS.Not the best Intelligence in the World will be able to
Foil these murderous Jihadi Scum in ALL their plots-WATCH OUT FOR YOUR NUCLEAR FACILITIES,BRITAIN.

Can someone explain to me any problem with talking with Musharraf, so long as it is kept in perspective?

If the stated goal is to divide factions within Muslim lands, Musharraf's public support of the West is a positive (as evidenced by multiple assination attempts). Also, isn't Pakistan at odds with Iran?

If we can get some information out of the deal, so much the better. I agree with bajirao's sentiment, but we're stretched a little thin at the moment.

Sorry. For those of you who don't speak German I should have translated that last quote. "Meine Ruh' ist hin, Mein Herz ist schwer" means (roughly) 'My peace is gone, my heart is heavy'.

But it's much more than that because of where it comes from. It comes from 'Gretchen am Spinnrad' which is one of the most deeply profound German (and, by extension, European) works of literature that you can find. It has Faustian and Romantic allusions. It has medieval and Biblical connotations. It brings in the author himself (Goethe, if I haven't already said so), and Heaven, and the great chain of being, and the devil, and Easter, and Beelzebub, and the nature of all things, and what constitutes reality, and... oh, read it for yourself. It is sublime on every level and the quote I used would be instictively understood by any European for its depth and complexity - to use a modern, stupid, crass and shallow German language derived term, for its angst (and that's only ten percent of the meaning, if that). Read it: love it: then you'll understand why I used the quote.

Grief, what we could lose if the d**ned moslems were to win.

Dominic.

Grief, what we could lose - Dominic

Not to mention the Schubert lieder that set Goethe's poems (including, "Gretchen am Spinnrade") among others, to music. Set to music, it's haram x 2.

Nobody does anguish-- all kinds, from unrequited love to the inevitability of death-- like the 19th-century Germans.

Good choice!

According to www.expressindia.com, Pakistan was under US pressure to make "key arrests" which is why the first few arrests were made in Lahore. Another reason for Pakistan to make these arrests is the growing criticism its government is facing for supporting Islamic terrorist activity within its borders and the established links that Pak-Jihadi groups had with the Bombay 7/11 serial blasts. In order re-establish its farse "ally" role in the eyes of the global media, Pak was left with no choice but to make those arrests, immediately after which Pak groups issued "do your attacks now" message to their UK pawns.

Hugh your expectations are too high of both NPR and the Bush GOP, let the muslims explode in anger, that is the best they do. Let them keep showing their hand at "Britain's foreign policy", Western Policy, Israel Policy. By keeping friction going, we expose the muslims for what they are, as it seems our government only act with muslim explosions of fits.
It is too logical for NPR and our government to look at history, islam doctrine and act accordingly. If they concluded, rightly so, no more muslim immigrants you would have every lawyer from every liberal organization raining down. so unfortunately we have to wait for bombs to come down on us.

Limes,

The so called "assassination attempts" were all stage managed to hoodwink the West into believing he stood in relief from the terrorists:-)call it their never ebbing thaqqiya.
Also, all the factions temporarily unite when they fight against us.

To annihilate them,the non muslims ought to relinquish *ethical warfare* and outdistance them in ruthlessness and deviousness.Why should we not load our missiles with ball bearings,rat poison etc ? As someone suggested earlier,"bring out the napalm".

Btw,the present Indian government is more treacherous and muslim friendly than cowardly.The previous one was weak kneed.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/terror/cst-nws-india12.html

What is the point in celebrating "Independence day" if the country is still not free from the fear of terrorists/terrorism ?

Shinoliite/

I'd forgotten the lieder. My mother sings them, usually accompanied, quite inexpertly, by my eldest brother on the piano'. My favourite is the Elf King (Der Erlkonig) although, as a child, I preferred The Diver (Der Taucher). Gretchen am Spinnrad is still, to my mind, the most profound of the lieder and of all European poems.

But then, what do I know? I still think that Descartes, Spinoza, and Leibniz have something to say about humanity and love and death. Seems I'm out fashion and that very, very few people understood the reference to the 'great chain of being'.

Hey ho! If they only knew the depth that they were defending. At least you, and, more than likely Hugh Fitzgerald, know. Lonely I feel sometimes, but then that's ' Gretchen', too.

D**n. Angst. I'm going for a cup of strong Darjeeling cut with a hint of Nilgiri.

Dominic.

Dominic.

Hugh: It is Tony Blair who made Ahmed "Lord of Rotherham" (is Rotherham his ancestral estate, I wonder?).

A google search demonstrates that Ahmed is a supporter of Muslim terrorism--sorry, "liberation struggle" in Kashmir and Israel. The guy is not even trying to hide it.

For example: http://www.jammukashmir.com/archives/archives2003/kashmir20031018a.html

Does Blair really believe that being nice to these people will really be appreciated? I dont get Blair, he is a weird mixture of liberal and neo-conservative.

I was catching up on this story, and the rest of today's news when I came [url=http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/12/mideast.protest.ap/index.html]across a story on CNN[/url] about a protest in D.C. sponsered by ANSWER Coalition, the M.A.S.F.F. and the N.C.A.A. I'm sure everyone is aware of what these three groups are really about, but I was struck by the tone of the CNN story -- they presented this protest as rational anti-war peace-lovers. At the same time, they had a similar protest in S.F., but these are [url=http://www.zombietime.com/stop_the_us_israeli_war_8_12_2006/]the photos they will never show on CNN[/url]...

n.b. Sorry, those tags didn't come across correctly...try, try again.

I was catching up on this story, and the rest of today's news when I came across a story on CNN about a protest in D.C. sponsered by ANSWER Coalition, the M.A.S.F.F. and the N.C.A.A.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/12/mideast.protest.ap/index.html

I'm sure everyone is aware of what these three groups are really about, but I was struck by the tone of the CNN story -- they presented this protest as rational anti-war peace-lovers. At the same time, they had a similar protest in S.F., but these are the photos they will never show on CNN...

http://www.zombietime.com/stop_the_us_israeli_war_8_12_2006/

Crows and Cows; Thanks for the thought and I'm sure it will come to that one day. Maybe this is a case of keeping your friends close and your 'Allies' closer.

">http://www.lumponablog.com/?p=182"> The Harrowing Tale Of Annie Jacobsen: A Dry Run For Terror In the Skies.

Shinoliite/

And it follows, of course that being or existence is a perfection; to be is more perfect than not to be. What has positive existence is good and was created by God; what seeks destruction and destroys existence and itself lacks being and goodness, and was not created by God at all. See: Descartes, Meditations 97.5, 110.4, 121.5, and Spinoza, Ethics 38.3 (I.11 sch), 38.6 (I.11 sch), 63.8 (II def.6), 98.4 (II.49 sch) and Leibniz, Monadology §§ 40-41, 45.

The application of reason (God given) gives the lie to mohammedanism - as usual - even if such reason is applied by a Christian.

I haven't thought this hard since Uni.

Dominic.

Dry runs all over the place.

From AP

3 Texas men arraigned on terror charges
2 hours, 15 minutes ago

"CARO, Mich. - Three Texas men were arraigned Saturday on terrorism-related charges after police found about 1,000 cell phones in their minivan, and prosecutors say they believe the men were targeting a bridge connecting Michigan's Upper and Lower peninsulas.

But two of the men said they were only trying to buy and sell phones to make money, and one said the money was intended to help pay for his brother's college education.

A magistrate set bond at $750,000 for each of the men, who are charged with collecting or providing materials for terrorist acts and surveillance of a vulnerable target for terrorist purposes. No pleas were made at the arraignment at a District Court in Caro, about 80 miles north of Detroit.

Officials have not said what they believe the men intended to do with the phones, most of which were prepaid TracFones. But Caro's police chief said cell phones can be used as detonators, and prosecutors in a similar case in Ohio have said that TracFones are often used by terrorists because they are not traceable.

"All we did is buy the phones to sell and make money," Louai Abdelhamied Othman told the magistrate. He said authorities had previously stopped the group in North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin.

"We've been checked by the

FBI before," he said. "They even gave us their card and everything."

Tuscola County Prosecutor Mark E. Reene told The Saginaw News that investigators believe the men were targeting the 5-mile long Mackinac Bridge. He declined to say what led investigators to that belief.

Reene and the FBI did not return phone messages Saturday to The Associated Press.

Othman and Maruan Awad Muhareb, both of Mesquite, Texas, and Adham Abdelhamid Othman, of Dallas, were stopped before dawn Friday after they purchased 80 cell phones from a Wal-Mart in Caro. Police said they found about 1,000 cell phones in their minivan.

Adham and Louai Othman are brothers and are in their early 20s. Muhareb, 18, is their cousin. All are being held at the Tuscola County Jail, Caro police said.

Muhareb told the magistrate: "This is a misunderstanding." He said he was selling the phones to earn money to help pay for his brother's college education.

Louai Othman's wife, Lina Odeh, said the men were buying the phones to sell to a man in Dallas for a profit of about $5 per phone. She said they were in Michigan because so many people in the Dallas area are doing the same thing that the phones are often sold out.

"I just want everyone to know that they're innocent and they shouldn't be locked up in jail without any evidence," she told The Associated Press.

The arrests in Caro came three days after two men were arrested in Marietta, Ohio, where police said they aroused suspicions when they acknowledged buying about 600 phones in recent months at stores in southeast Ohio.

Ali Houssaiky and Osama Abulhassan, both 20 and from Detroit suburb of Dearborn, have been charged with two felonies — money laundering in support of terrorism and soliciting or providing support for acts of terrorism — and misdemeanor falsification. A preliminary hearing on the felony counts was set for Tuesday.

Defense lawyers said Houssaiky and Abulhassan planned to resell the phones simply to make money. They say the men were targeted only because they are of Arab descent."

If they can afford to come here, afford to buy vehicles, afford to buy thousands of phones, they can certainly afford to pay for education, which would be wasted on them anyway, the way they are going.

Limes, the world is stretched thin not because of lack of resources but because of placing different values on human lives. The USA has often looked the other way at Paki terror because it did not affect them (or so they thought). This prompted India to take the view that Iraq and Afghanistan is the USA's problem. In fact there was a serious debate (under the earlier BJP government in India) on aiding the US effort in Iraq, the BJP found it hard to push it through mainly because of US indifference to terrorist attacks in India.

Both India and the USA are wrong in segregating Islamic terror in this manner. The terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan will get at India given half a chance; just as the Paki terrorists would get at the US. This is one war; not multiple wars.

Now some bufoons in the Indian parliament (especially the communists) are creating a hue and cry on Israel. Luckily, the Indian Prime Minister understands that Israels action is necessary and has kept quiet. The man on the street in India admires the way Israel acts and wishes that the Indian army could fight alongside them in this common war against terrorism. Although political expediency has not allowed it to happen now, one feels the day is not far when India, USA and Israel will realize that they are fighting one war and pool their efforts

bajirao; I can't think of a person of Indian descent that I have ever met who has not been a model individual. Speaking as a guy who works in the engineering field and grew up in an area with a significant Indian population, I don't think that I'm alone.

I wouldn't place the blame as much on different 'value of lives' as much as I would place the blame on distance.

We've got our soldiers cycling through Iraq, and they come home and tell their stories in the workplace. Iran is threatening the Western world on a regular basis. Pakistan's PM makes a pretty convincing case of US television. He's getting credit for helping foil the London plan. For all I know, he very well may have helped. This is what we hear and see.

I guess I find Hugh's strategy of playing both ends of the Muslim threat against the middle to make the most sence of anything else I've heard.

There's a threat to both of our futures, we're both facing it, and it will be together.

Many Indian muslim scholars(lol)oh yes ,*moderates* have started their frenzied taqqiya weaving:

"....see,it was a muslim who tipped the West about the plot...(wink,wink)...killing of innocents is unislamic(grin and wink devilishly)....ain't we all saintly creatures blahblah...." and it goes on.

Should Hindus unite and force them to leave India, they are not going to be welcomed by the sands of Arabia.They know it too well.It is only in Indian soil that these slothful parasites can expect to be pampered and appeased.This is how they manage to fool the fellow brainwashed hindus by *claiming* to share the love of holy rivers ,Motherland etc.As is naively claimed by many hindus "....because they participate in our festivals, they are so tolerant....".

SICKENING!!!

Bajirao,

India is responsible and accountable for its security and state of affairs.Not America.
Indian rulers were rightly assessed by Churchill when he talked about power being transferred to the hands of unscrupulous rascals.

Be it bjp or any political party,they are too power hungry to crack down on muslims.

Dominic,

I thought I was an admirer of Heinrich Heine, but I came across this, which disquieted me:

"Three centuries later the German-Jewish poet Heinrich Heine (1797-1856) would envision this epochal Reconquista much differently: "On the tower [in Cordova] where the muezzin called to prayer there is now the melancholy tolling of church bells. On the steps where the [Muslim] faithful sang the words of the Prophet, tonsured monks are acting out their lugubrious charades." For Heine Islamic Spain -- here represented by formerly Muslim Cordova, reconquered in 1236 -- had fallen victim to "the dark tricks of history," and the Reconquista, far from being a righteous European triumph over an alien and expansionist adversary, marked a terrible cultural disaster. The Spain that emerged from her national victories was spiritually impoverished and intellectually desolate, filled with the sterile ceremonies of mindless Catholicism. Spain, in short, was better off Islamic."

Is this characterization of Heine correct?

Assalamau-Laikum all,

The goobs says "I'm pleased that they were able to intercept the message and decode it in time".

So am I, intenseley. Never mind about Islam exapnding, if it is to survive...this madness has to stop.

I support Islam...but not the madness...the coming next couple of years will decide for me ..whether the two (Islam and violence) can ever be separated.

I am no jihadist...peaceful Islam only for me...if we cannot have that...I am gonna have to reevaluate my very being.

"I support Islam...but not the madness...the coming next couple of years will decide for me ..whether the two (Islam and violence) can ever be separated."
--- from a posting just above by an Ahmadiya from Pakistan

With the record of 1350 years of Islamic history, and therefore 1350 years of the impulse, and the deed, of Jihad-conquest of non-Muslims and of their subsequent subjugation, a Muslim or at least someone who considers herself a Muslim (most Muslims, not least in violent Pakistan, would beg to differ) posts, and in posting wonders aloud, not sounding her wonted triumphalist ("Your grandchildren will all be Muslims") note, but rather that note of uncertainty that she sometimes exhibits or adopts, and reiterates that she supports "Islam" (whatever that in fact may be -- she is unclear on that) it is "the coming next couple of years" that will "decide for me...whether the two (Islam and violence) can ever be separated."

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal;

you're wrong. Firstly Israel's Mossad is keeping a close watch on Pakistan. India's RAW and Mossad are working closely together. Israel and India will definitely destroy all the nuclear facilities in Pakistan if terrorists take control over the nuclear weapons.I'm not assuming anything out here, but it's a known fact; google it and find it out for yourself.
Israel and India are in fact working on sophisticated arms; the Indian submarines are equipped with the Israeli Barak missile systems and the armies of the respective countries
That's precisely why Israel and India aren't waging a war. Because the government is ridiculously weak in Pakistan. What happens IF musharuff gets murdered? Your country will be in a state of chaos; terrorists will steal the nuclear technology and pass it over to rogue states like North Korea and Iran. The Pakistani economy is in shambles; most of it's money gets spent in paying debts and buying arms. An excellent place to invest for setting up Madrasas.

Hugh,

Will you re-post the title and author of the book on the history of the re-founding of Israel you gave about two weeks ago, please? You said it was the place to start for anyone who wanted to understand, and I meant to make a note and get the book and like a fool didn't.

I think that what we need is an easy to read book that compares and contrasts Muhammed's life with the values and criminal codes of the West. Mo is, of course, the founder of the 'religion of peace' and virtually all Muslims would regard him and his actions as a life to be emulated.

So what I was thinking of doing was to grab a list of all Mo's actions, as traditionally accepted as true and authoritative by the islamic community/scholars. This would probably be a list of events similar to that described by Wynn at Prophetofdoom.net (very good resource if you havent visited it yet - the free online book is a real eye-opener).

One the list was complete I would take the list of actions on a 'blind' basis (ie without any mention of Islam/Mo/etc) and ask a QC, if these actions were to be done in the West (i) would it be a crime, and (ii) what is the maximum sentence if convicted.

I think this would highlight the incompatibility of western values and law with islamic theology and practice. Just off the the top of my head I can think of glorification of terrorism, racial hatred, false imprisonment (slavery), rape, torture, homosexual practice (where thats still illegal), paedophilia, theft, first degree murder (of Jewish poets) and genocide.

Im sure there are a few more gems in the life and times of the perfect man; enough to have him set up for several hundred rounds with old sparky. Problem is (i) getting a lawyer good enough to write this opinion, and (ii) getting someone bold enough to sell it publicly, without risking wholesale firebombings and a repeat of cartoon rage from the "religion of peace".

Hey Naseem - would you be interested in selling a book like this in Pakistan to encourage intercultural understanding?

It's a very short book, written by someone with a lively sense of English:"Battleground" by Samuel Katz. The paperback idiotically has a Star of David on it, and a preface by Begin. Both should be jettisoned. The book is good on facts, but of course it was written some 30 or so years ago, and has nothing about Islam. Neither the author, nor so many others who think they are writing about something we have all grown accustomed to calling the "Arab-Israeli dispute" -- it is no mere "dispute" -- or what some now deliberately and much more sinisterly call the "Israel/Palestine" issue, which is a way to reify, and smuggle in, a never-before-existing "Palestine" as something actually existing (in other words, attempting to call into existence, in words, before it exists, that "Palestinian state"), rather than using the toponym "Palestine" correctly, as an alternative designation for the same area as was indicated by the placename, in the time of the Romans who first promoted the word "Palestine" (from "Syria palaestinorum" or "Syria of the Philistines") of "Judea" or "Israel" (in the minds and collective memories of Jews in their exile from what they never stoppped calling the Land of Israel).

"The Myth of Dispossession" is good on the subject of those Muslims who settled in the Ottoman vilayets that later became part of Mandatory Palestine, from Ottoman-dominated Europe, from Algeria, and especially from Egypt. There is much more about this elsewhere -- especially about the huge Arab migration from Iraq and elsewhere into that area from the late 19th century on, attracted by the economic development, after centuries of ruin and desolation and paralysis, that the Zionist pioneers, and the industry and energy they exhibited and the capital that they brought, that of course was seen as something to get in on by Arabs elsewhere. The completely unhindeed, unmonitored Arab migration into "Palestine" during the Mandatory Period was larger than the Jewish migration, so closely monitored and frequently restricted (see for the apotheosis of this hideous policy, MacDonald's White Paper of 1939, with its proposal to restrict Jewish immigration to 15,000 a year for five years) by the British in Mandatory Policy, so ridden with antisemites who found the local Nashashibis and Husseinis so full of local color, so ingratiating, so altogether splendid, and the Jews from Zionist Eastern European circles, or as the British saw it, dangerously socialist environments, and so lacking in that oily deference at which game the Arabs, then and now, have proven to be such past masters -- "at your feet or at your throat" is a British phrase, based on experience with the Muslim Arabs, and not meant to be applied indiscriminately, as part of a more general "wogs-begin-at-Calais" nastiness, too easily dismissed.

Another good book is John Laffin's book "The Arab Mind" with its sweet-reasonable subtitle, something like "A Search for Understanding." It's good, and because it takes Islam into account, in a way that Sania Hamady's "The Arab Mind" or Raphael Patai's "The Arab Mind" do not, I like it.

Start with "Battleground." Easy to read, full of information that should be known to all, but unfortunately, will be regarded by many as "startling." It isn't, or wouldn't be, save for a half-century of very successful Arab propgaganda, and of course the efforts of the U.N., the E.U., much of the world's media, the inadequacy and inarticulateness of successive Israeli governments and the silliness, at the same time understandable and unforgivable, of so much of the Israeli public (I won't go into what is called in Britain "Organized Jewry" and in the United States "Jewish organizations" - about Islam these groups have understood nothing, and still have almost nothing to say). Idon't know if the kind of people who join such groups, or are bureaucrats in such groups, are permanently hopeless, or only temporarily so.

Start with "Battleground." Go from there.

Thank you.

Two things.

To the Widow Naseem - if all of the funds sent for relief of the injured had actually been used for that purpose you might not today be the Widow Naseem, do you think?

Second, Waterdragon and others, re the family with the baby, it gets worse.

Here's an idea. Why not have Muslim-only aircraft (piloted and staffed by non-Muslims, of course, and the crew protected by armed guards)? Muslims would not be given access to ordinary airlines. This would save all the bother of normal people being harassed at airports, prevented from taking books onboard, etc. And the devout Muslim might welcome not having to be tainted by associating with Infidels flaunting their loathsome unMuslim behaviour.

How about a new law for all muslims in the uk if you are cought causing racist hatred for decent living (clean) christian people all your family will be deported no matter how long they have lived in the uk all your buisnesses and properties will be sold off to pay for your deportation we in the uk are a free people you are wakening a sleeping Giant (the people)in the uk and enoch powel was right we should have closed the doors in the 1960s this is a christian country if you dont like the way we live or dont like our flag you have a right to use what our fathers and grandfathers died for in the world wars (freedom)Leave with our blessings but dont forget to give up your british passports and social security numbers and your housing benefits and anything else that stands for (FREE)

Naseem you are fooling yourself. Islam has never been peaceful. How many jihads as military campaigns did mohammed lead? How many more did he plan? How many people did he murder or have murdered? Islam has always been spread by war, terror, death, rape, pillage and plunder. Your koran is full of inaccuracies and lies that are obvious to any educated person. There are no muslim missionaries, only muslim mercenaries. The koran and hadith are full of stories of military conquest by Mohammed and his followers. The commands in the koran to murder and subjugate infidels are just as valid for muslims today as they were in Mohammed's day. While the koran refers to allah as "merciful" therer is no evidence of allah ever telling mohammed to be merciful to the people who rejected islam. Mohammed had them killed and confiscated their posessions. Your false prophet was nothing but a war lord, a slaver, arapist, a murderer, a liar, a terrorist and a con man. Your own history says so. Every muslim nation was forceably converted to islam by military conquest with the sole exception of Turkey which surrendered at the threat of inavasion. That is why your umma is so screwed up to this day, why there is no peace in islamic lands. When you aren't fighting the "infidels" you are murdering each other. That is why our culture has advanced and yours has not. You produce no cars, planes, trains, tvs, radios, DVD players, no computers, and have nothing of value except for a few countries that have oil. Even then the West had to find the oil, get it out of the ground, refine it, transport it and sell it. To this day, by and large, you cannot work the equipment we sell you but have to have foreigners operate it for you. You curse the West but when you are hit by natural disasters you come crying to us for help. You disgust us and we are getting tired of your lies and hypocrisy.

According to further reports, the British police have just announced to the Home Secretary, John Reid, that 'at least four major terrorist plots have been foiled' by the security services since the 7/7 London bombings.
Also, it has emerged that at least 21 investigations into alleged terror plots in the UK are still ongoing.
Just how many extremists hiding in our midsts have we got in this country?
This is really scary. It seems, if true, that we are really at war with Islamic extremists.

Watch out, watch out,
There's a Jihad about.

Kath.

Pakistan & Islam: A Case Study of Indian Dhimmitude

While USA makes the frequent gesture that Pervez Musharraf is an important ally on terror, the back-slapping is deftly used by Musharraf to plan a global mayhem against Jews, Kafirs (Hindus/Buddhists/Jains/Animists) and People of the Book (Christians). The Lashkar-e-Taeeyba, Hizb-ul-Mujahadeen and other radical Pakistani Muslim organizations have infiltrated the Pakistani Army, thanks to the barbarian (former Pakistani Presidxent) Zia-ul-Haq whose objective was to Islamize the Pakistani Army in its fight against Soviets in Afghanistan and Indians in Kashmir. He showed his Islamic allegiance by the public hanging of the former PM of Pakistan Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, father of the former PM Benazir Bhutto in 1976. The hanging took place in Islamabad, in front of all public to sede. Of course, USA recognizes that Pakistan is an ally in protecting the civilization that USA so dearly adores. Well,.....

It is true that Abdullah Azzam, based in Pakistan was the spiritual mentor of Mohammed ibn Usama bin Laden. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia were the only two to recognize the Taliban. Pakistan's Inter Service Intelligence orchestrated all forms of terrorist activities in India, and as the subsequent investigations reveal, all over the world all the way from Alaska to Australia. The primary design of Pakistan is clear: since the landmass from Ankara to Iriyan Jaya is almost all Islamic, with the exception of India, so if India became Islamized, then there would be no geographical buffers and this entire stretch of landmass would be dominated by Muslims, posing its biggest challenge to the Western societies. To effect this change, India, from which Pakistan was torn off on August 14, 1947 needs to be threatened to implement the barbaric Mohamedan laws of the Sharia at least in its pockets that contained Muslims majority. Pakistan's calculation is that majority of Hindus by default are dhimmis (cowards); so they would not be able to pose any physical threat to the Islamic aggression, symbolized by the Quran and the Sword. [They - Pakistanis - are inspired by the saga of Mohammed bin Qasim who used to conduct raids from Mosul (now in Iraq) since 712 A.D. and plunder and murder for jollies. Similarly, Mohammed Ghauri (after whom the Ghauri missile is named) was another tormentor of the subcontinental (Hindu) Kafirs.] These are facts that have always played in one way of the other on the collective operational psyche of the Pakistani terrorist societies.

India, having all the necessary intelligence and other forms of operational sophistications, is held back its "birth defect", starting August 15, 1947 when it "won" (?) Independence. This swaraj or self-rule was actually begged. It was not earned, if one reads the history of Indian Independence carefully. This swaraj was won based on the absurd concept of Ahimsa (or as we know it from the parlance of political wordsmiths: non-violence. This, on the Indian street, translated into peaceful Civil Disobedience, with the singular objective of being an irritant rather than a modicum by which freedom could be won. With such a course of action came its attendant baggage of irresponsibility. The freedom fighters knew that there were almost no risks to their lives. They could stage a sit-in and be there whole day without having to bother about the consequences. Irritated colonial masters (British) would probably use batons and haved the crowd dispersed, or better still use delay tactics to buy time to meet the demands of these howlers. The mode was fortunately very succcessful, because of the prevalent situation at that time. The Brits had been badly devastated after the WWII, and India was proving to be a major economic burden - to maintain the cost of operations in an occupied land. Sir Clement Atlee was kind enough to overrule Winston Churchill's objections and granted India her Independence.

The struggle for freedom, almost without any bloodshed, was achieved and this emboldened the psyche of the Indians. Ask any old-timer (who maybe over 75 now) about pre-Independece political scenarios. S/he would clearly show much adulations for ahimsa and condemn any other forms of struggle, particularly armed struggles. This, in my view, summarizes the rationale of why India takes a defensive posture in its war against Islamic radicalism. India's dhimmitude can only be explained by the above observations: winning Independence by being a non-violent irritant for the British rulers. This penchant for civil disobedience has taken so deep roots in India, that irresponsibility in civic life is a staggering phenomenon. Nobody is responsible and nobody is willing to stake it out.

Against that backdrop of civic apathy for public life, is the phenomenon of Islam - the growth of a cancer of religious intolerance and bloodlust - set into motion by the ugly behemoth of Mohammedan dictates. Since 1947, Pakistan (which means land of the pure) has always taken Kashmir as its cause of Jihaad. To that end, Pakistan's policies have been fueled by the rhetorics of Syed Abul Ala Maudoodi whop is the founder of Jammat-i-Islam. The Jammat has an objective of converting India (which is darl-ul-harb) to dar-ul-Islam. The recent 7/11 bombings have shown the ideology of Jammat is still upheld in India by the radicalStudent Islamic Movement of India (SIMI). The Newsweek (Julyt 24, 2006 issue, page 33) had reported that SIMI has the objective of converting India into an Islamic State, simply because it wants to uphold the lost glory of the Islamic ruke that was lost to the British. Now that the British haved left, SIMI wants that Islamic rule to be installed.

Pakistan, with its hate machine of revenge active and alive, has used all US donations, and the financial largesse (from Uncle Sam) to use against India. Imagine why, that Pakistan is a basket case, could not take advantage of the economic boom of the 1990s, and instead focussed on the kafirs than improving economic conditions of its moth-eaten social welfare state. Pakistan's complicity in conducting terrorism inside India has also been highlighted in the Rediff article Moloy Krishna Dhar's Rediff Article.

Even then, Indian Govt. can be characterized accurately to reflect the singular, salient, collective feature of all Indians, namely: apathy. Indian govt. has always asked American to label Pakistan as a terrorist state, but has either been callous to take any action by itself, or unable to provide any evidence in the first place. That the Pakistani soldiers were infiltrating into Indian territory in the times of the Kargil war was first brought to notice from satellite pictures taken by US satellites. In short, Indian apathy to take any action is proverbial and this can be aptly summed up as a case in Indian dhimmitude. The following link (from Hindustan times) may generate
Hindustan Times Article: Pakistan in Trouble ? euphoria amongst the Indian polity, but would result in no definitive action. India would wait for other countries to take action that it should have taken.

Most likely, Britain's situation with Muslims
Washington Post Article on British Musl ims would generate hope amongst Indians. They would now begin to see Pakistan in trap because the same Lashkar-e-Tayeeba is now connected with the fundamentalist British Muslim youths, and hence Pakistan is now a part of the Global Jihad. India's exaltation is also now supported by the LA Times article Los Angeles Times Editorial Tying Pakistan to Global Islamic Terrorism Movement.

My conclusion is that India is no Israel. It cannot fight an asymmetrical warfare. Nor does it have any moral inclination to step up survelliance because that would annoy the 150 million strong Muslim population in India. India knows that if any strict security measures are taken, porous borders and sympathetic pro-Taliban Indian Muslims would wreck havoc by collaborating with the SIMI and other terrorist outfits in Bangladesh and Pakistan to inflict maximum terror. The situation is grim: USA must not take India as an effective helping partner in its war on terror. What USA can do best is to place a moratorium on all formns of visas (student/tourist/work) to all Muslims en masse, and including India. In the least this would prevent Muslims getting aboard any aircraft and commiting mass murder on an unprecedented scale.

Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal