Another fruit of the politically correct refusal to ask Muslim applicants for airport jobs hard questions about their views on jihad and Sharia. Of course, honest answers could not be expected; but if officials were even aware of the nature of jihad preaching and recruitment, they could watch for some of the danger signs.
The obvious thing to do, of course, is to bar Muslims from sensitive positions until Western Muslim communities can produce some reliable assurance that those who take such positions will not be jihadists. But that will never happen, not least because Western authorities calling for it would fold in the face of the Muslim indignation that would follow such a declaration. But in light of the fact that Muslims themselves have made no organized attempt to expel jihadists or teach against their ideology in mosques in Western countries, it's an entirely reasonable measure.
"Plane plot involved 'explosive cocktail,' official says," from CNN:
Among those arrested were a Muslim charity worker and a Heathrow Airport employee with an all-area access pass, according to Britain's Channel 4.
Hate is such an ugly word, pay them and they will leave you alone. At least until they decide to have a little fun. Until them live in peace. Let's not be islamaphobic (lol, I'm making myself sick)
In the Western world, what can Muslims be allowed to do, and what must they be prevented from doing? Clearly, anyone who claims that he takes his worldview from the Qur'an, and the Hadith, and the model of Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, must be taken seriously. We, the Infidels, have to find out what it means to derive your worldview from the Qur'an, the Hadith, the biography of Muhammad. We cannot guess at this. We cannot assume that Islam, more or less, must be just like other religions, or other belief-systems that are called religions. We have to find out. We cannot find out by listening to Muslims who practice taqiyya-and-tu-quoque. And since the actual contents of Qur'an and Hadith and Sira are, for Infidels, so horrifying in what they directly express and in what they imply, anyone aware of the contents of Islam, the tenets of Islam, the attitudes to which Islam not distortedly but naturally gives rise, must -- however charming, however mild-mannereed, however seemingly acceptalbe in all other respects, must be held to a knowledge of, and acceptance, what is contained in that Qur'an, those Hadith, that model of the Perfect Man.
What then can we allow Muslims in our societies, whether they come from Muslim countries, or happen to have been allowed to settle here, or are among those targetted for the campaigns of Da'wa among disaffected, alienated, psychically or economically marginal people all over the West (from the ditzy lord to the melancholy bicycle-delivery boy, the first looking for an explanation and justification of his upper-class-twit existence, and the second trying to find a structure for his existence, something that will order him about from dawn to dusk, and what's more, provide a grid for viewing the universe and a convenient scapegoat -- the Infidel -- for everything).
We cannot allow them to study, obviously, nuclear physics. We cannot allow them, obviously, to study those aspects of biology, or chemistry, or materials science, that might aid in the manufacture of weapons. Dr. A. Q. Khan in Holland, and Drs. Germs and Anthrax (examples of the liberated Iraqi women who under the previous regime were allowed to study in Great Britain, and bring their deadly knowledge home). We cannot allow them to study encryption, or very much to do with computers beyond the most elementary. We cannot allow them to work for any companies or in any academic departments where they might acquire such knowledge. We cannot allow them to be airline pilots, or part of an airplane crew. We cannot allow them to run our busses or trains. For now we think we can allow them to drive taxis -- but think of a taxi plowing in to a "Salute to Israel" parade, or into this or that gathering of Infidels for any reason, should someone have a lapsus. We cannot allow them, can we, to sort the mail (anthrax), or even to deliver it, if they will find mail not to their liking, or decide to target those who receive that mail not to their liking. We cannot allow them to engage in the indoctrination of our children, whether small or in universities, if they will continue to fill the minds of the unwary ("Gosh, Prof. Khalidi or Prof. Farooq or Prof. Dabashi" is "really brilliant" and "I learned so much about Islam." I'll bet you did.).
We cannot allow them to rise in government where they might sit on key Congressional commmittees, or sit in on meetings of high officers, and learn all kinds of things about potential war plans, or even about where weapons are stored, and how. We cannot allow them to treat, in some cases, Infidels if we have reason to believe that at any minute, for reasons we do not understand, a formerly mild-mannered doctor, supposedly as gentle and sweet as the next, has under his knife someone who suddenly, to him, represents the Infidel at his most evil, his most Shaytanic.
We cannot allow them to take over newspapers, or rise high in television, if we think, if we know, that they will subtly or not-so-subtly engage in propaganda to prevent our right understanding of Islam. Look at the effect, in the BBC, or some of the French papers, of large contingents of Muslims in the Arabic-language services, and the effect such people must have on non-Muslim colleagues.
We cannot allow them to...
Well, you think about it. You fill in the rest. You decide if, upon studying the contents of this belief-system, what functions and jobs you think it reasonable to entrust to those who still claim, who still identify themselves, as Muslims.
Hugh, I wish I had your command of the language Sir but I do not. So I can only add, well said and thank you for your never tiring efforts to educate the rest of us.
Ever been to Detroit International Airport?
There are lots of Muslim women (you can recognize
them from their head covers) working airport
security.
I assume there are lots of Muslim men in airport security too, but they wear no distinctive clothing.
I have to wonder, if (cough...when) this escalates, which country will have the GUTS to start interning some of these nutbars.
Posted by: SickofitALL
I think we would have to start by attacking the title of “religion” take that away and we could round up all their clerics under hate laws. Some religions have a common lesson plan they hand out weekly to use so all their congregations receive the same message. Let a Jewish Rabbi write the sermon for all muslims each Friday. At least that way they will not get all the zionists wreaked the world crapola. If we start prosecuting their clerics for preaching hate, they will have a severe shortage, and my plan solves that.
Hugh left out the most important allowance for muslims with regard to Western democracy. Namely, that we cannot allow them to become 50% of the population.
Hugh: there is *no legal way* to prevent Muslim Americans from studying physics, or owning newspapers, or do any of the things you mention.
And you know that full well. So what's the point
of even talking about it?
We have to find constitutional ways of dealing
with the Muslim problem. Talking about mass
deportations and the like is not only childish,
it prevents us from focusing on practical solutions.
Just heard on "O'Reilly" in an interview with a Scotland Yard spokesman that in a poll, 90% of British muslims say their first allegiance is to their religion and not their country.
Just make sure the muzzies have tarmac jobs and they are in the way of incoming and outgoing jets...the wheels are sure to hit a few of em daily.
The constitution can be changed. We allow no other “religion” to legally attack others on a weekly basis nor should we. Hugh’s plan is the most cost-effective way to protect us; it sounds very practical to me. The only problem with it is we do not have legislators brave enough to join this fight, they flail wildly in the face of liberals worrying much more about losing votes than protecting the majority who want this threat faced up to and demand that something be done.
The normal presenter from 10pm to 1am on BBC's Rdio 5 news and sports station was sick tonight so they replaced her with Sarfraz Manzour, a Muslim Brit of Pakistani origin. The odds against this happening, if the presenter were picked at random from the UK population, were 60;1. Needless to say, people who phoned or texted in the view that british foreign policy was to blame for the current emergency were given great prominence as were views that the police were making another big 'Forest gate' type mistake. The idea that Blair had ordered the whole thing as a ditraction from his current difficulties was also given an airing. At all times Manzour kept pointing out that the arrestees were only alleged terrorists and that nothing had been proved yet. The following programme featured a Chicago professor who has written a book showing that suicide bombers are motivated by politics and not by religion (even al quaeda!). I'm beginning to despair of the BBC.
BBC is just the UK office of the global islamic media front/muslim propaganda and BS provider. I’d bet with that much bull the grass around that station must really be bright green.
I think you are all being jolly unfair, unkind even, a blatant case of religious profiling. Several points of objection must be raised:
1. You cannot blame people who were born to Muslim families. It is not as though they had any choice in the matter.
2. You will find that most of them are poor disadvantaged people living under marginal circumstances and on full welfare and unemployment benefits.
3. As such, they will not be able to defend themselves adequately in a court of law, which will incur substantial public expenditure in Legal Aid.
4. This, of course, it will be a great benefit to large numbers of quasi-liberal solicitors and barristers who will do their very best to prolong legal proceedings since they get paid by the day.
5. The trial will prove, conclusively, that ALL the defendants are poor disadvantaged individuals who suffer from bipolar disorder. Many of them will prove that they have, additionally, been subjected to sexual abuse as children.
Hi! I am new here. I have been reading for a while and agree with everything that is said here.
What must it take for us to go all out and delare a real war against these people? September 11th wasnt enough and I could go on and on.
What we need to do is say that is it. No more people in this country to do anything. That includes school and plotting and planning in various mosques etc. Get the ones in this country out.
As far as profiling. That has been going on in our country forever. As a black female (who is so far right I am almost left again *lol*) I know that there is profiling for blacks, whites, and other groups--but for Arabs--Oh no we cant do that. As Michael Savage says we have to be "sensitive". That is the crap that is going to get us all killed. My hubby who lived in Ohio was stopped by the police because he had a shaved head (he was fresh out of basic training) because the police thought he was a skinhead. In my book that is profiling.
George, Mass deportation is the only way. No it is not constitutional but most are not citizens of this country so our laws do not apply to them. You cant coddle them. We must fight the enemy the way the enemy fights us.
They have the will and not the power. We have the power and not the will. It is imperative that we handle this problem--and quickly, if not we are in big trouble!
I think you are all being jolly unfair, unkind even, a blatant case of religious profiling. Several points of objection must be raised:
I will not walk quietly into the chamber. BTW, islam is not a race although you could easily argue “cult”
1. You cannot blame people who were born to Muslim families. It is not as though they had any choice in the matter.
People are born into all types of families without turning into killers.
2. You will find that most of them are poor disadvantaged people living under marginal circumstances and on full welfare and unemployment benefits.
See above, being poor is no excuse to murder, rape or support those who do.
3. As such, they will not be able to defend themselves adequately in a court of law, which will incur substantial public expenditure in Legal Aid.
Commit no crimes and you need no lawyer.
4. This, of course, it will be a great benefit to large numbers of quasi-liberal solicitors and barristers who will do their very best to prolong legal proceedings since they get paid by the day.
Lawyers of all types maybe worse than muslims (I had to say it)
5. The trial will prove, conclusively, that ALL the defendants are poor disadvantaged individuals who suffer from bipolar disorder. Many of them will prove that they have, additionally, been subjected to sexual abuse as children.
Abuse is no excuse.
Posted by: aviceda
Answered by: Ronin, defender of sheep, puppies and those to cowardly to defend themselves.
In the Western world, what does prudence dictate that Muslims be allowed to do, and what does prudence dictate must they be prevented from doing? Clearly, anyone who claims that he takes his worldview from the Qur'an, and the Hadith, and the model of Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, must be taken seriously. We, the Infidels, have to find out what it means to derive your worldview from the Qur'an, the Hadith, the biography of Muhammad. We cannot guess at this. We cannot assume that Islam, more or less, must be just like other religions, or other belief-systems that are called religions. We have to find out. We cannot find out by listening to Muslims who practice taqiyya-and-tu-quoque. And since the actual contents of Qur'an and Hadith and Sira are, for Infidels, so horrifying in what they directly express and in what they imply, anyone aware of the contents of Islam, the tenets of Islam, the attitudes to which Islam not distortedly but naturally gives rise, must -- however charming, however mild-mannereed, however seemingly acceptalbe in all other respects, must be held to a knowledge of, and acceptance, what is contained in that Qur'an, those Hadith, that model of the Perfect Man.
What then can we allow Muslims in our societies, whether they come from Muslim countries, or happen to have been allowed to settle here, or are among those targetted for the campaigns of Da'wa among disaffected, alienated, psychically or economically marginal people all over the West (from the ditzy lord to the melancholy bicycle-delivery boy, the first looking for an explanation and justification of his upper-class-twit existence, and the second trying to find a structure for his existence, something that will order him about from dawn to dusk, and what's more, provide a grid for viewing the universe and a convenient scapegoat -- the Infidel -- for everything).
We cannot allow them to study, obviously, nuclear physics. We cannot allow them, obviously, to study those aspects of biology, or chemistry, or materials science, that might aid in the manufacture of weapons. Dr. A. Q. Khan in Holland, and Drs. Germs and Anthrax (examples of the liberated Iraqi women who under the previous regime were allowed to study in Great Britain, and bring their deadly knowledge home). We cannot allow them to study encryption, or very much to do with computers beyond the most elementary. We cannot allow them to work for any companies or in any academic departments where they might acquire such knowledge. We cannot allow them to be airline pilots, or part of an airplane crew. We cannot allow them to run our busses or trains. For now we think we can allow them to drive taxis -- but think of a taxi plowing in to a "Salute to Israel" parade, or into this or that gathering of Infidels for any reason, should someone have a lapsus. We cannot allow them, can we, to sort the mail (anthrax), or even to deliver it, if they will find mail not to their liking, or decide to target those who receive that mail not to their liking. We cannot allow them to engage in the indoctrination of our children, whether small or in universities, if they will continue to fill the minds of the unwary ("Gosh, Prof. Khalidi or Prof. Farooq or Prof. Dabashi" is "really brilliant" and "I learned so much about Islam." I'll bet you did.).
We cannot allow them to rise in government where they might sit on key Congressional commmittees, or sit in on meetings of high officers, and learn all kinds of things about potential war plans, or even about where weapons are stored, and how. We cannot allow them to treat, in some cases, Infidels if we have reason to believe that at any minute, for reasons we do not understand, a formerly mild-mannered doctor, supposedly as gentle and sweet as the next, has under his knife someone who suddenly, to him, represents the Infidel at his most evil, his most Shaytanic.
We cannot allow them to take over newspapers, or rise high in television, if we think, if we know, that they will subtly or not-so-subtly engage in propaganda to prevent our right understanding of Islam. Look at the effect, in the BBC, or some of the French papers, of large contingents of Muslims in the Arabic-language services, and the effect such people must have on non-Muslim colleagues.
We cannot allow them to...
Well, you think about it. You fill in the rest. You decide if, upon studying the contents of this belief-system, what functions and jobs you think it reasonable to entrust to those who still claim to be, who still identify themselves, after such knowledge (the knowledge that they have, the kknowledge that you now have, of Islam) as Muslims.
Umm, I think I would be comfortable with them cleaning the toilets - if they were poly'd on the way in and the way out.
Other than that - well, maybe they should stay in their lovely home countries. Then we could all be safer. We would of course run a risk by visiting those cesspools - but at least they would be confined.
They could learn to live in a civilized manner among civilized people - but that is probably asking way too much.
QUOTE: 2. You will find that most of them are poor disadvantaged people living under marginal circumstances and on full welfare and unemployment benefits. UNQUOTE
So get off your lazy butts and get a J O B ! or go back to were you came from. I'm sick and tired of paying taxes just so some hate filled mo-mad killer can ply his murderous trade on MY dollar!
Two years ago, I flew to Sacramento. On the trip there, a TSA worker, blind in one eye, x-rayed my purse and pulled me out of line because my lipstick tube looked suspicious, like a gun, but I made the flighty. On the trip back, the head guy to examine passports was 'Ali-something'. I guess I looked shocked, because he sort of shrugged as our eyes met. Totally pC, totally dangerous AND unecessary.
aviceda -
Not all Muslims are terrorists, but why are all terrorists Muslims?
Geroge_rem, there is no practical solution to the muslim problem under current political realities. But the muslims themselves will solve that problem for us. As soon as the big attack comes, political realities will change. They better. And once a better understanding of the threat that they represent is acquired, then banning muslims will become a possibility, indeed, it will become a necessity, just as we banned communists from sensitive positions.
The leap from looking at islam as a religion, to looking it as a dangeorous ideology like communism is the leap from Sept 11 to a date not far in the future. I hope. The fast jihad will undermine the slow jihad and finally we may get the upper hand on this thing, but only because political opinion changed in light of a massive atrocity, or serious of atrocities.
That's called the tombstone edict. That means that before action is taken, people have to die. Of course, many people have already died, but for the poltiical elite, it evidently wasn't enough. They require not just one atrocity, but several, and most likely on a larger scale, too. Then and only then, will the political landscape change enough for islam to be considered dangerous to the nation, and its adherents, muslims, vehicles for that danger.
Hugh wrote:
"...You decide if, upon studying the contents of this belief-system, what functions and jobs you think it reasonable to entrust to those who ..."
I entrust them with NOTHING. You have raised a very good point. Many Muslims who are somehow quite intelligent, get an advanced graduate education (engineering, sciences, medicine) here in USA and then stay back to join the "sleeper cells" (much like Sami Al-Arian), or, go back to join the terrorist groups. The objective is to destroy the system that gave them the enlightenment.
So, what are we doing to STOP the menace from entering the borders of USA ? NOTHING ! Are Muslims increasing in numerical majority inside USA ? You bet ! Will they one day take over the White House and raise the Islamic flag on the top ? You bet your wallet on that too ! So, is Naseem euphemistically right in stating that Islam shall dominate the world eventually ? Most likely yes. That cataclysmic event is an eventual reality.
And surprisingly, the number of (white) Americans converting to Islam after 9/11 have increased. Why ? I don't know ! Beats me to fathom what's going on here ! Got a clue, Hugh ?
Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal
Not all Muslims are terrorists...
But all Moslems are terrorist sympathizers. Elsewise, by the scriptures, they're apostates and are to be beheaded for that.
Use the term of your choice, but to me so-called Moslem terrorists should at least be called Jihadis, or my favorite, Moslem activists.
"Hugh: there is *no legal way* to prevent Muslim Americans from studying physics, or owning newspapers, or do any of the things you mention."
-- from a posting above
By way of reply:
I had in mind both those who have obtained citizenship (citizenship which in the case of naturalized citizens requires an oath of loyalty; that oath needs to be carefully worded, or re-worded, so that any evidence of perjury, necesary and inevitable perjury, can be used to strip those who so perjure themselves of the benefit -- citizentship -- thereby obtained), and those who come from abroad. There is no need to open one's departments of physics, biology, chemistry, to the future Drs. A. Q. Khan and Drs. Germs and Anthrax. Furthermore, in the case of domestic Muslims, one does not need a law, but only a sense of responsibilty, an awareness, on the part of faculty and university administrations, one so far mostly lacking, but that could be developed and encouraged. And since so many departments of Middle Eastern studies, or Islamic studies, are fatally compromised, it should be up to intelligent faculty members in other, larger departments -- such as History, or Comparative Religion -- to not be intimidated, nor to seek to ignore the problem on the lame theory of faculty "autonomy." The scandal at some places -- such as Columbia -- so is great, so appalling -- that intelligent faculty members from any department (and of course alumni, who should refuse to donate to any college or university that allows free reign to Muslim apologists and propagandists, and in so doing, to encourage the Administration, and faculty members in other departments who will be affected by such a drop in donations, to do what they should have done all along).
An attitude more suitable for wartime -- this is wartime, though unrecognized -- is necessary.
And what happens when most of the British police are muslims?
Will they still investigate terrorism then?
Silly question, Voltaire. At that graven point there will be no Moslem activist terror acts to worry about. By then it will be one big fight over the white women. So, probably at thatjuncture the Moslem cops will have lotsa brown-white-white love triangle homicides to work.
Hugh: there is *no legal way* to prevent Muslim Americans from studying physics, or owning newspapers, or do any of the things you mention.
610 * 623 * 732* 1066* 1215 * 1453 * 1492 * 1683 * 1928 * 1938 * 1948 * 1996 * 2001
Yes, there is a legal way. It’s called Congress:
In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.
--- United States Constitution, Article III, Section 2
There is a legal way to do anything that needs to be done. It’s up to the will of the people as manifested by Congress to override the Supreme Court, should such Congressional will ever emerge (read: atom bomb blast over a major American city). Then the extant legal way will merge with Congressional will. At long last. Ye must give to receive. Ye must pay to collect. Amen.
I was wondering if they were from the broad spectrum of society that planned all the problems in canada.
Perfect solution, very simple, very easy, after many deadly attacks by muslims, the U.S. and other Western governments have now deemed "ISLAM" a terrorist organization, and all mosques to be destroyed or converted to other uses, and those who refuse to lose this cult, can emigrate to any muslim country. now how many bombings, losses do we need before our government comes to their senses? or can
"We the People" decide?
A wee bit off topic but I heard today that the peace keeping force will for a large part be made of indonesian troops , what a recipe for disaster,is this not the bunch of nuts that wanted to send troops to the hisboolaaa? I hope Israel protests this biased arrangment. Am I dreaming or what.
Apparently, one of the Ohio football jihadis' mother works at the airport with an all access pass....explains how they got their passenger lists and airport security details...
FROM DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL:
"Why is the mother of a terrorist working at the airport? And why does she have passenger lists and info on airport security? Why did she give them to her son?
Early this morning, I wrote about Ali Houssaiky and Osama Sobhi Abulhassan, the Dearbornistan Terror Boys.
* In addition to the money-laundering charge, the Dearbornistan Terror Boys were charged with Soliciting or Providing Support for an Act of Terrorism.
* The Dearbornistan Terror Boys claim that they had the flight manifests and airport security info because the mother of Ali Houssaiky works for Aircraft Services International Group at Detroit Metro Airport.
GUH-REAT! The mother of an apparent terrorist works at the airport in the center of Islamerica. That makes me feel sooooo much better. And she's aiding and abetting her terrorist son. Awesome!
Back in 2001, members of the Detroit Terror Cell worked for SkyChef at Detroit Metro Airport, with full access to planes. Now it's Mommy Jihad who apparently has access to secure information and gave it to her son.
What is Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff going to do about that? What is the TSA going to do to ensure that contractors--not just passengers--at America's airports are not engaging in nefarious behavior along with their Islamic 600 cellphone chip detonator-touting sons?
Not a whole lot, as far as we can tell. "
LINK TO ENTIRE ARTICLE:
Dearbornistan Terror Boys: A Frightening Update; Cheers for Ohio Officials, Jeers for Feds
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/
Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslims or financed by muslims, or muslim sympathizers. Screw being politically correct. Deport them all or else we will never be safe.
Alarmed; So am I.
The Constitution can be changed through a process that is probably achievable. I've had two blurbs on the click below, one is a crude 28th Amendment. Its written by an engineer, not a lawyer. Please don't mock my legaleze.
Watching Glen Beck and our host tonight, there may be some momentum to get something through. If something big happens, there will be.
Hugh/
"...the ditzy lord...".
Hmmmm. I know a few Lords, one or two 'Graces' (both temporal and spiritual), several 'Sirs' and a sprinkling of other titles including one 'Serene Highness'. 'Ditzy' is hardly the word I would use for any of them. Explain yourself, man. Just what are you getting at here? What have we British done to offend you this time, huh? Why the gratuitous insult? Given our support, why do you seek to offend? Maybe I'm just being too sensitive but I think that you owe me an explanation.
Dominic.
EricaC,
I'm not even sure the profiling has to be based on race. But even if it were, let's face it, America is not facing attack from African-American suicide-bombers, or from Latino suicide-bombers. It's facing attack from Middle Eastern Muslim suicide-bombers. So would I want cops to hassle a guy for "Driving While Black"? No. But I might want them to hassle a guy for "Flying While Being a Middle Eastern Muslim."
It's a sensitive issue, because I understand the concern: African-Americans are worried that if we start profiling Muslims, one day we might start profiling them too. But at least you're not alone in that. Jews have just as bad memories (cf. the Nuremberg Laws in Germany). I have enough faith in America that we understand who the real threats are.
">http://www.lumponablog.com/?p=180"> The President Has No Right: The Definition of Hypocrisy
The President Has No Right: The Definition of Hypocrisy
Constitutional issues?
Yes, by all means let us adhere to those precious "Constitutional issues."
As Benjamin Franklin said "those who desire security above liberty deserve neither" or something along those lines.
A more important thing to remember though is words of wisdom from Thomas Jefferson:
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necesity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country, by scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us: thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."
SO keep railing about those "Constitutional issues", and remember to quote them to the guy that is in the middle of blowing up the aircraft in which you are riding or sawing off your head while screaming allahu akbar.
Hugh/
"...his upper-class-twit existence..."
Oh, come on. What world do you live in? The events in Boston which occurred in Lord North's administration were 233 years ago. Grow up and come into the 21st. Century. The hard economic fact is that 'upper-class-twits' simply don't exist outside the pages of a P.G. Wodehouse novel - and probably never did.
I'm beginning to have some handle on how moslems must feel about profiling! If this really is how you Americans see the UK then God help us all!
Dominic.
The President Has No Right: The Definition of Hypocrisy
Constitutional issues?
Yes, by all means let us adhere to those precious "Constitutional issues."
As Benjamin Franklin said "those who desire security above liberty deserve neither" or something along those lines.
A more important thing to remember though is words of wisdom from Thomas Jefferson:
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necesity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country, by scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us: thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."
SO keep railing about those "Constitutional issues", and remember to quote them to the guy that is in the middle of blowing up the aircraft in which you are riding or sawing off your head while screaming allahu akbar.
Hugh/
"...his upper-class-twit existence..."
Oh, come on. What world do you live in? The events in Boston which occurred in Lord North's administration were 233 years ago. Grow up and come into the 21st. Century. The hard economic fact is that 'upper-class-twits' simply don't exist outside the pages of a P.G. Wodehouse novel - and probably never did.
I'm beginning to have some handle on how moslems must feel about profiling! If this really is how you Americans see the UK then God help us all!
Dominic.
Not all muslims are terrorists, but that doesn't need to be the case to make them dangerous as a group. Indeed if only 2% of muslims are involved in terrorist activity, then out of 7 million muslims in the US, that would mean we have 140,000 active terrorists in our midst. Think about that number. In WW II, the Germans landed 6 spies whose job it was to blow up installations and such. Six. We have 140,000 such spies awaiting activation in the US alone. And of those 140,000, almost all of those are currently "law-abidding". They have yet to join the fight overtly.
And that is now. If we go to war with Iran, you can be assured that the muslim population will become far more radicalized and that 2% figure may be more like 10%. Then will will have an army of 700,000 people engaged in terrorist or even guerilla activity within our cities and towns. 700,000 guerillas. That by the way, is twice the number that America has in its active duty armed forces deplored everywhere overseas.
That 10% minority could literally take us over by sheer numbers.
So when people say, the vast majority of muslims are law-abidding, that is not saying very much.
Perfect solution, very simple, very easy, after many deadly attacks by muslims, the U.S. and other Western governments have now deemed "ISLAM" a terrorist organization, and all mosques to be destroyed or converted to other uses, and those who refuse to lose this cult, can emigrate to any muslim country. now how many bombings, losses do we need before our government comes to their senses? or can
"We the People" decide?
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 10, 2006 10:46 PM
.. of all the solutions I have heard so far, this one seems to come closest to solve the problem. Also, trying other solutions, themselves lead to other problems (like muslims hiding heir own faith to get airport jobs, like lying to questions about Jihad and Quran, like discrimination lawsuits etc...), which will lead to this solution. Ofcourse, to the "discrtimination" charges, all muslims have to do is leave Islam and they will be treated equally, but to have Islam masquarading as a 'RELIGION' and slaughtering non-muslims, is simply unpractical, and unacceptable!
Thank you ZenaWarriorPrincess
August22: I think that Islamic terrorists will
avoid very large scale terrorist attacks
on US because they do not want the Americans
to wake up and take drastic measures.
A never-ending series of smaller attacks works
better for them.
I think you're wrong George. Look at the news today. They planned to blow up 10 airliners, say with an average load of 300 passengers each. That is 3000 dead right there. Then they planned on blowing up the planes as they flew over the cities or airports before landing, to cause maximum carnage on the ground. Large widebody airliners would have fallen onto skyscrapers.
This attack today was bigger than 9/11. But it was busted.
And this doesn't even begin to discuss any WMD attack by Iran.
Big attacks are coming. Big.
Our countries have declared war - war on terror and, therefore, on terrorists. It is customary in times of war for countries to intern enemy aliens in order to prevent a fifth column from forming and becoming active. Such internments are usually conducted in a civilised fashion, but none-the-less they happen.
The reason why our Governments will not openly identify islam as the enemy is that then they would be forced to intern all moslems for the duration.
Force our administrations to acknowledge the reality and internment of all enemy aliens follows as a logical consequence.
One can dream can't one?
Dominic.
Steven,
Maybe I wasnt clear. I think that there should be racial profiling. It has in some cases worked in the past.
I am not sure why blacks would be worried---as you said Middle Eastern men are the people who are blowing things up--so I am all for it!!!!
Internment of all Muslims?! No. That would destroy our democracy and turn all Muslim citizens into mortal enemies.
The right approach is to be very nice to them in our public discourse (it serves NO purpose whatsoever to call them 'ragheads' on TV like that stupid Coulter woman did) while at the same time using secret political police methods to monitor them, divide them, undemine them. Disapperances should also be used in extreme cases.
"And that is now. If we go to war with Iran, you can be assured that the muslim population will become far more radicalized and that 2% figure may be more like 10%. Then will will have an army of 700,000 people engaged in terrorist or even guerilla activity within our cities and towns. 700,000 guerillas. That by the way, is twice the number that America has in its active duty armed forces deplored everywhere overseas.
That 10% minority could literally take us over by sheer numbers. "
I like these numbers better:
"There are an estimated 193 million guns in America. Some estimates range as high as 250 million. That's almost one gun for every man, woman and child in the United States. Guns are not just in urban and rural homes, they're everywhere – cities, towns, suburbs and farms."
I was watching O'Reilly tonight and he and his guests were actually talking about the need for profiling.O'Reilly said its ridiculous that people are not going to be able to take a bottle of water on a plane and that passengers will be subjected to endless delays while we attempt to screen everyone.When the reality is the guy named Mohammed should be subject to greater scrutiny then the 80 year old grandmother.
I think I am going to have an Iranian, Hezbollah, and Hamas flag buring "protest" in my home town soon. Heck we should put one together I'd take a vacation to meet up with any and all that wanted to do it. We could even burn effigies of Hassan Nasralla, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
From Hot Air...
Asjad Ibn Abdussamed, the head imam of the Abu Bakr mosque, recalled that after the July 7 terrorist attacks the faithful had slept there to protect it from reprisals.
“This morning I was upset,” he said yesterday, playing with his young son in his office. “I knew that Islam would be portrayed in a bad light again. As soon as I heard that Heathrow was closed, I thought — I bet they will say that Muslims were behind it. The key word is ‘alleged’. Nothing is proven. We must accept that just because we have a beard or dress Islamically we are going to be the first targets.And here’s a broad-strata alert:
Muhammed Abdul Bari, the secretary-general of the council, said that the links had to be found between the suicide bombers on July 7 and other attacks to avoid a general assault on the Muslim community. “We need to find out what was the connection between 7/7 and subsequent attacks. It is imperative to find that link to stop continuing Islamophobic attacks,” he said. [Isn’t it more imperative to “find” that link to stop terrorist attacks? — ed.]Abdurahman Jafar, the vice-chairman of the council’s legal affairs committee, said that the Muslim community was holding its breath as events unfolded. “Whether the result is successful or not does not matter. Muslims will be stigmatised and kids will come back from school with more vitriol thrown at them.
“Muslims today feel another layer of deep despair as they know what tomorrow’s headlines will say.”
As always, worried about how muslims are perceived instead of the people murdered by the muslim terrorists.
"We have to find constitutional ways of dealing with the Muslim problem. Talking about mass deportations and the like is not only childish,it prevents us from focusing on practical solutions."
Posted by: george_rem
Oh, so we shouldn't discuss Islam, and what the TRUTH of it's tenents are? Just what constitutional rules prevent us from BANNING this cult of hate?
Any politician with the GUTS to stand up and show that Islam's "scripture" is nothing but a book of hate which commands it's followers to murder any and all those who refuse to accept it, and is especially hatefull to Jews and calls for their genocide should not have any problem introducing LAW banning it's practice.
Unfortunately we no longer have a sane government, we don't have ay politicians with a SPINE who are willing to speak the truth and disregard the PCness which has so badly infested the country, nor do we have politicians educated enough to flip through the pages of the koran and use the hadith to figure out what it instructs it's followers to do- namely kill all those who resist Islam and it's totalitarian rule.
There ARE constitutional ways of dealing with Islam, and the HATRED it teaches. #1. Recognize it for what it is. It is NOT a religion. It does NOT contain any message of peace.
#2. BAN it from being taught under the hate crime laws that already exist.
Enforce the law. Deport those who are not willing to be de- programmed.
Or, we can just sit here like idiots and allow them to take over the country, our freedom, and life as we know it.
It may not matter to you, and it really doesn't matter to me, because I am willing to fight till i die, which isn't that far away anyways, but it just might matter to those who care about the future their children will have, and the freedom they may not have.
Mullahmasher: I favor a more subtle approach.
I reproduce my post from above:
Internment of all Muslims?! No. That would destroy our democracy and turn all Muslim citizens into mortal enemies.
The right approach is to be very nice to them in our public discourse (it serves NO purpose whatsoever to call them 'ragheads' on TV like that stupid Coulter woman did) while at the same time using secret political police methods to monitor them, divide them, undemine them. Disapperances should also be used in extreme cases.
"BBC is just the UK office of the global islamic media front/muslim propaganda and BS provider. I’d bet with that much bull the grass around that station must really be bright green.
Posted by: Ronin
The BBC has become like the UN, full of Islamists. Both need to be dismantled.
Let's not forget Rueter's, AFP, the Guardian, and other pro-Islam, anti western apoligists.
They go beyond media bias, they create "news" in an attempt to justify the actions of that murderous cult, which hasn't been any other way since Muhammad the flea infested pedophile brought it into the world 1400 years ago.
"Another fruit of the politically correct refusal to ask Muslim applicants for airport jobs hard questions about their views on jihad and Sharia."
Spencer's editorial comment is disingenuous. "Hard questions" won't do. A Muslim who gives a "correct" answer could by lying.
The obvious answer, which Spencer doesn't want to state for fear of being branded as a "racist" or "Islamophobe" is that Muslims need to be DISCRIMINATED AGAINST AS MUSLIMS. Period.
I can well imagine reading Jihad Watch ten years later, in 2016, after another few horrible attacks on us, and Spencer still pussyfooting around the issue.
The right approach is to be very nice to them
Posted by: george_rem
Nope. offer a choice. Abandon the cult, or leave.
Just making them actually READ the Koran and hadith (Life of Muhammad) would be enough to convert most muslims claiming ignorance of it's "scripture".
The argument that Islam is taken out of context just doesn't hold water. language has only one purpose, and that is for humans to communicate
with each other. The koran and hadith is not a secret code that few people except special (illiterate) Imams can understand. In fact the Koran says it is simple and written so all can understand. It was never "written in Arabic" as some Muslims claim, it was recited orally in the language of the day, which during Mohammad's life was Mostly Syriac, with local Arabic just beginning to develop. Arabic didn't become a written language for another 200 years later.
By then, whatever Mohammad has muttered was forgotten, abrogated versions where claimed to be recorded by Muhammad's successors, and all other versions burned.
Mullahmasher: Muslims are very devious. They
will publicly renounce Islam and continue
to plot murder and terror in their secret meetings.
EricaC,
I'm glad to hear it. Here's the latest example where profiling could work. The Brits just released the names and ages of the 19 men they arrested for this alleged terrorist plot today. From their names, can you see what they might all have in common?
As you can tell from names like "Muhammed," "Arafat," "Abdul," "Hussain," and "Islam," could these men possibly be:
Oh, wait....
Yeah, what Mullahmasher said...ban Islam and the Quran under the hate crime law!! This is appropriate because in Suran 9:5, for example, the Quran COMMANDS muslims to kill unbelievers (all of us.) THAT IS INCITING A HATE CRIME and could and should be enforced. Futhermore, the deportation of those who do not comply could be a legitimate way of taking control of this out of control problem.
But then again, maybe it's going to come down to those 193,000 that private American citizens own...
AND Hugh is right,the quran and its ideology is clearly purely evil. I am glad that he and others are getting the word out. I have been sounding this alarm for 20 years and have repeatedly, told as many as would listen about the dangers of islam. We must all keep telling people, passing along emails on this topic until it becomes mainstream understanding etc. We MUST keep raising this point until we CAN get some attention in Congress. Unfortunatley I am afraid it will take another disaster to wake up the sleeping democrats.
And thank God in heaven that we are not depending on president Gore or president Kerry to lead us in this fight. We would already have been doomed.
Kudos to British Intelligence.
As always, worried about how muslims are perceived instead of the people murdered by the muslim terrorists.
Posted by: Carolyn2
Isn't it amazing? It very easy for a "Muslim" to avoid reactions from the rest of society. Either show how those actions violate the tenents of Islam, denounce the actions of the terrorists, or simply abandon the cult, and stop dressing their female children in head to toe burka's.
If they really want to believe in God, then they should put all that faith into the real one, the one that teaches love, respect, kindness and living peacefully with each other.
To continue to believe in this Allah fellow who is mean, hateful, loves to spend all his time in hell torturing the people he created over and over again, burning their skin off, putting it back on, and burning it off again, pouring lava down their throats, shoving red hot iron rods into them, hanging women up by their breasts because THEY somehow "fathered" bastards (How in the world did they manage to father their own children?) just doesn't make sense.
To believe in this Allah fellow is to admit that these terrorist animals are only following the Koran's commandments, and it is acceptable to them, as is what the koran commands them do do to those who reject the blood cult.
"Muslims are very devious. They
will publicly renounce Islam and continue
to plot murder and terror in their secret meetings.
Posted by: george_rem
Of course they will. But it will be ILLEGAL, and mosks will notbe built, madrasa's (Islamic brainwashing schools) will not be built.
The cult will eventually die out.
ANy solution is going to take generations to implement and cause a change.
"I was watching O'Reilly tonight and he and his guests were actually talking about the need for profiling.
Posted by: Roxane
You should have listened to Micheal savage's radio show. He was really letting loose, calling for profiling. There were even a couple of jihadists that called in.
M. Masher posted:
"Any politician with the GUTS to stand up and show that Islam's "scripture" is nothing but a book of hate which commands it's followers to murder any and all those who refuse to accept it, and is especially hatefull to Jews and calls for their genocide should not have any problem introducing LAW banning it's practice."
No rational, compassionate human being, who, living in a free society and having read Qur'an, ahadith, and sira can possibly elect, voluntarily, to either remain a Muslim or to convert to Islam.
Our politicians don't, in the main, I suspect, even know what Islam actually means, and they probably never do flip through a page or two of the Qur'an during their time in the offices where they actually could make a difference.
But I keep writing letters to them.
Right on cue from the Daily Telegraph (now referred to contemptuously by some as the Daily Hezzbollagraph) comes today's editorial - a patchwork of maundering nonsense which talks about "winning around" what it describes as "alienated young Muslims". It thinks that "the one thing that unites Muslims in this country is their respect for the family". This phrase is almost completely meaningless, ignores the compulsive and brutal nature of the "Muslim family" and shys away from the fact that its very structure involves the subjection of women.
See Gender Apartheid and Islam: a symposium in which the redoubtable Ali Sina an ex-Muslim who runs the Faith Freedom website says:
How can anyone be so wrong? What could be more glaringly obviously a case of "self-assured editorialists presuming to preach about subjects they have no right to have an opinion about"?
I'll quote Hugh's comment on editorialists again.
We recall that, at this difficult time, when Iran, through its proxy Hizballah in Lebanon threatens Israel with extinction and tells the rest of the free world it'll deal with it when it gets around to it, the Daily Telegraph has been joining the feeding frenzy against Israel. It's News Editor Shane Richmond airily dismisses the evidence of staging in photographs coming out of Lebanon - something which has now been conclusively proved. It's columnist Simon Heffer comes very close here to saying "it's all the Jews".
Telegraph writers are adding to the problem. And in an editorial the Telegraph has the gall to suggests "solutions" to matters it doesn't understand.
"For now we think we can allow them to drive taxis -- but think of a taxi plowing in to a "Salute to Israel" parade, or into this or that gathering of Infidels for any reason, should someone have a lapsus."
posted by Hugh
Absolutely correct.
Also, according to Hugh's irrefutable logic Muslims should not even be allowed drivers licenses, lest they plow into that "Salute to Israel" parade on their day off...or be allowed to own knives or even cricket and baseball bats.
So, no sports involving heavy weilded objects for Muslim children.
Islam and the West are like oil and water - they don't mix.
Still, my advice, watch Russia.
I agree that Islam should be considered a criminal organisation and be banned. I agree that we cannot allow Muslims to do all the things Hugh numerated. I agree that there should be no further Islamic immigration to our countries and that we should start to send Muslims (at least those who don't own Western citizenship...as a beginning) back to their home countries.
But I do not agree, that all of our politicians are naive about Islam. It is just against overwhelming odds. If we as ordinary people can inform ourselves about Islam ( and it ist not difficult to do so ) why should politicians - who have intelligence services at their disposal - not be able to do so? This is unbelievable to me.
And so I asked myself: Why don't they do what is to be done? Traitors? Conspirators? Perhaps some (many?) of them, especially in the EU. But even not all of our Europeans politicians. And surely a much smaller number among American politicians. There must be another reason.
From a posting above: "if something isn't done about the moslem problem, and soon, there is very likly to be blood in the streets."
That's absolutely true. But if there is something done about the moslem problem there will be blood in the streets as well! Concerning the near future: much more blood.
Anyone thinking, that Muslims will accept all these things? That they will say: "Oh, you don't like us and our religion? We are so sorry. Of course we will peacefully leave your country. Thank you for all the welfare payings and education. Good bye and have a nice life without us." ??? They will start riots if only a politician TALKS about that. Don't forget: we are talking about easily "offended" people who riot about someone throwing a Quran in a toilet or drawing some cartoons. And surely the Islamic countries won't like us to damage their strategy of slow jihad. They will play the oil-card. At least!
And what will be the reaction of our own fellow citizens? I fear they will be unpleased as well. They will say: "Everthing was better before. I did'nt fear to ride a bus or travel in a plane before. Now I do fear all that. Why did this stupid politician create this mess just because of some hysterical islamophobia?" They would tear such a politician limb from limb. And if one Western country alone would take these measures, how would the other ones react? Not only the Muslims - we as well have unpleasant people among ourselves who would start to do unpleasant things towards poor Muslims? Remember what happened to Serbia. Not by Muslim countries but by NATO.
I do not want to discourage you. Not at all. But I want to make aware that confronting Islam will be hard and bloody. Unfortunately I am sure, we will have to do it. The sooner the better and less bloodier. But everyone should know the price of it. It could be widespread civil war.
At the moment we are sitting in a still largely comfortable trap. Getting out of the trap is a hurtful way to go. Staying sitting in it seems much more comfortable for the moment! Democratic politicians tend to think in short terms.
As democrats we - the people - are the sovereign. Domocratic politicians are not our bosses but our servants. The first thing we should do is to inform, to inform, to inform and to encourage politicians and the media(!), that they can be sure, they will not be torn into pieces if they start to talk. I am sure, YOUR president - even if saying "Islam is a religion of peace" - knows at least as much about Islam as we do. I am sure he does not at all believe this is a 'religion of peace' and all the crap about the 'tiny minority'.
(I apologize for my English. I understand the written language well but I'm not used to speak or to write in English. I hope it is not too awful to read. Last time I had to write something in English was at school - and that was deep in the last century ;-) )
Well, we can continue to be nice to them, we can continue to coddle them, and guess what? You wont see your children grow up.
Steven--even though we all know that when the word terrorism pops up, we know that Muslm will be following shortly, people will continue to say, "Oh they are not bad people". They will continually bring up Timothy McVeigh (which if you believe he and Terry Nichols acted alone, I will make sure to give you my card--I am selling swamp land in Florida) and how whites are capable of it too. They will use the Beltway Snipers. They will use examples of John Walker Lindh, and say that extremists (the PC term for terrorist) might not always be what we think. I know what I think--the common denominator is that they are MUSLIM regardless of color.
Got an idea--if you are muslim--great-I think you should be able to practice your religion--GET out!!! Practice over there, and leave us alone.
Allow me to be President for just about 3 hours and I promise the problem will end.
--First, just as in WWII, we must have intermint camps for the Muslims that are here.
--Second,The ones that are here illegally--Get out!! The ones coming in--Sorry, denied.
--Gitmo--strike a match to it. What are they still around for?
Then and only then do we really have a handle on this problem--but with people walking around, hanging out, driving vehicles (taxis) etc.. Who is the enemy and who is not.
Last thing, Question for you. How can you tell the difference between a good muslim (and by that I mean one that doesnt wish to kill all Western civilization) and a bad muslim? If one can tell me how that it is possible, maybe I will change my mind in some of how I feel. Example--the guy working at your local gas station--is he a bad or good muslim? Is he in a cell or not. Until we can figure that out- I will continue to be labeled insensitive, racist and any other thing the left can come up with!
Be prepared to see the vengeance of God in the face of the total opposition, in the form of nothing much, and thereafter, in the form of less.
God requires little in yhe way of inertercession,
to smite this world.
"There must be another reason."
Why?
Because you want there to be?
Perhaps human nature is by way of its nature inherently flawed.
Original Sin?
Why?
Because you want there to be?
No, Mike_W, on the opposite. I personllay would prefer the assumption that they are all naive und ignorant. Ignorance can be cleared. Deliberate actions are much more difficult to change.
The "naive"-assumption is just against plausibility. Thinking that all politicians with all their sources of information are stupid, does not seem realistic to me.
Coddling the Muslims and stating "Islam means peace" is - on a short term sight - the much easier way to go. Not the better way! But the easier one. And that's the way how politicians think.
Do you think any Muslim country allows westerners to work in their airports, government offices, post offices, banks, train stations, bus terminals or just about anywhere else. These Muslim countries do not allow it, We should treat them as they treat us.
Every wonder why so few non Muslims are in Muslim countries? I suspect they profile, discriminate, imprison, kill, deport or otherwise encourage non Muslims to not be in their country.
We should do the same to Muslims in the free world.
"We should do the same to Muslims in the free world."
Yes, we should.
But it is not that easy for us as it is for them. Non-Muslims in Muslim countries are dhimmis. They are left alone if they surrender to Muslim law. Those who are unruly find themselves in big trouble.
On the other hand: Non-Moslims in Non-Muslims countries are dhimmis as well! At least in Western Europe and perhaps in the USA too. We live in a very free form of dhimmitude, because we are a vast majority and even our political leaders are Non-Muslims. But who is ruling with the means of fear and murder if some dhimmi - as i.e. Theo van Gogh or the Danish cartoonists and many others - gets unruly? The Muslims!
We already are dhimmis and I don't use the word in the accusing sense as a cuss but in its original meaning. We are allowed to live in peace if we surrender and we are threatened or killed if we break the "law" Muslims consider appropriate for us, i.e. if we do "hate speech" or if we support Israel and so on. For most of us it's not yet difficult to be Muslim-law abiding - and thus unfortunately most of us don't even realize it.
We must confront Islam. But it is not possible to do so only by enacting a law. "no more Muslims in sensible jobs at airports" for example is not comparable to "no more smoking in restaurants". The latter one can be enforce by a simple law. Smokers won't blow up restaurants or send dead threats to politicians, will they? A law is completely sufficient to prevent people form smoking in restaurants. And Muslims? A law (or just the removement of existing anti-discrimination laws) is only the first step of a long and bitter way to go. Probably a bloody way as well.
We must KNOW, that confronting Islam is literally freedom fighting - against a tyrant with the means of death penalty in his hands. I think, it is very important to know that. If there are many people who don't know, they will scaredly give up soon after the fist step. To my impression many people in Europe do know that. That's the explanation for the fact, that Islam is considered negative in polls on the one hand and that everyone is eager to appease Muslims and Islamic countries on the other hand. They are disgusting cowards - but they assess the situation correctly.
The logical progression of muslim violence against citizens within and without the U.S. will result in conditions which muslims in this country may find so threatening that they will deport themselves.
I don't necessarilly approve or disapprove but it will happen. If the government won't protect Americans, they will do it themselves.
We are all sitting ducks until our apparent leaders learn to join the dots or atleast put two and two together, our esteem leaders remind me of rabbits staring in to the light. I heard some boofhead on the news say that this close call had nothing to do with religion...
Now Hugh, regarding that gorgeous list above, of all the should and should not does. If my memory serves me rights, isnt that exactly what you call dhimmittude?Maybe the Americans prefer to call it the Jim Crow system.How exactly is that different from the aims of the Jihadis? If as Bush said" the constitution is just a piece of paper" and as you demonstrate can be twisted at will, what makes you thinks every Muslim follows "the Koran" to the letter? Is that maybe genetically inherent? I want an answer please.
There is an interesting parrallel to make between those asking for clear discrimination against Muslims and the internment of a 100000 Japanese Americans, during World War Two. The discriminations finds its parralel in the Bushedo, the Japanese traditionals code of honor, and the Koran, the basis
of Muslim and Arab tradition. It was assumed and is today assumed for Muslims, that these two people share a collective mindset based on tradition and in the Japanese case to the Tenno, in the Muslim case to Allah(God). That was what made discrimination possible and with the same arguement people are trying to discriminate again. But who would doubt today that Japanese are loyal Americans citizens?
#2. BAN it from being taught under the hate crime laws that already exist.
Mullahmasher - can you point me at the laws which exist? I've thought about calling some people at the ACLU and trying to get a federal case going... I could use your help in knowing what the laws do say before I expose myself.
"The internment of the Japanese was absolutely justified and correct as the vast majority had very close ties to Japan and were still loyal to their Emperor. Fair in war, wouldn't you say?"
I think such an answer doesnt really deserve much thought.
"Their goal is not to become good citizens, but to destroy our civilization as we know it.
They want to either convert us, or for them better yet, to outbreed us and kill us off.
It's our lands they want, not us and not our democracies"
Dont make that mistake. The ultimate enemy is an illusion, a dangerous fabrication and the best excuse for war. He has been conjured up many times, as a Jew,a German,a communist,a Japanese,a Protestants ecs. The claim that Muslims want to see you dead is silly and childish.
"The internment of the Japanese was absolutely justified and correct as the vast majority had very close ties to Japan and were still loyal to their Emperor. Fair in war, wouldn't you say?"
I think such an answer doesnt really deserve much thought.
"Their goal is not to become good citizens, but to destroy our civilization as we know it.
They want to either convert us, or for them better yet, to outbreed us and kill us off.
It's our lands they want, not us and not our democracies"
Dont make that mistake. The ultimate enemy is an illusion, a dangerous fabrication and the best excuse for war. He has been conjured up many times, as a Jew,a German,a communist,a Japanese,a Protestants ecs. The claim that Muslims want to see you dead is silly and childish.
Eisvogel; I enjoy your posts and agree with your premise. Your observation:
But if there is something done about the moslem problem there will be blood in the streets as well! Concerning the near future: much more blood.
is correct. I believe (hope) that when this happens; the rules of engagement will change. I look to Israel, where 90% of the population is calling for a massive aerial bombing campaign.
I see this Believer/Infidel situation as a pending chemical reaction, awaiting a catalyst.
Your English is very good.
watcher 83... what do you make of these statements if you insist they don't want to see the infidel killed?
"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."
- Omar Bakri Muhammad
"The term 'civilians' does not exist in Islamic religious law. ... There is no such term as 'civilians' in the modern Western sense. People are either of Dar Al-Harb or not."
- Hani Sibai makes clear whJanuary 13, 2006
"We ask Muslims to . . . bleed the enemies of Allah anywhere by any means. You can’t do it by nuclear weapon, you have to do it by kitchen knife, no other solution. You can’t do it by chemical weapons, you have to do it by mice poison” Abu Hamsa -
"We know what happened over the last week and how the brothers of the monkeys and the swine (Jews) assassinated and murdered one of the heroes of Islam, the Salah al-Din of this day and age, Ahmed Yassin." "Then what will happen? Listen to the good news after that. The prophet ... says that the stone and the tree will say, 'Oh Muslim, oh slave of Allah, that verily behind me is a Jew. Then come and kill him,'"~ Sheik Younus Kathrada in Canada
“Any Israeli over age 18 is a legitimate target for suicide bombers because adult Israelis were required to do military service.” They are part of the Israeli army, even if they have civilian clothes." Mohamed Elmasry, President, Canadian Islamic Congress
"We are also proud of what Hamas and the Islamic Jihad are both doing in the occupied territories. We support the resistance and support, with all our might, the martyrdom operations carried out by the Palestinian liberation movements, operations that are a legitimate act against the cruel occupation, according to all international norms and conventions." Taj Al-Din Hamed Abdallah Al-Hilali
United States: "The Day of Judgment will never happen until you fight the Jews. . . . The trees and stones will say, oh Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him!" ~ Hatem Bazian, Lecturer, University of California at Berkeley.
I can conjure up hundreth of horrible statements here, reducing Muslims to animals,gleefullness at civillians death in Iraq and Lebanon(just stroll above,) but I am smart enough not to conjure up fantasies about an American conscience worked at by Military propaganda, witthout individuality or character.It has nothing to do with an imaginary Umma, when people support Hezbollah resistance against Israel and reject Israel brutal tactics. They are not doves to be at shot at at will. What about the Chassidim Rabbi saying that in this current war morality( the killing of civillians) is bad the troops morale? Explain that to me on the arguementation of a humane western state.
You and all the people here support the killing and bombing of Lebanese. What am I to draw of that? I asked you to bring me a verse from the Koran. You will not. There are many Hadith about Judgement day and many contradict each other, each trying to be more coloreful( like Johns book of prophecy). It has never meant much to me.
watch_83 - I'm responding to this:
Their goal is not to become good citizens, but to destroy our civilization as we know it.
They want to either convert us, or for them better yet, to outbreed us and kill us off.
It's our lands they want, not us and not our democracies",
Dont make that mistake. The ultimate enemy is an illusion, a dangerous fabrication and the best excuse for war. He has been conjured up many times, as a Jew,a German,a communist,a Japanese,a Protestants ecs. The claim that Muslims want to see you dead is silly and childish.
Would you like me to show you how the Qur'an shows infidel as 'the ultimate enemy' ?
The other thing is that every time a Muslim shows solidarity with the victims of terrorism, you call it taqqiya. What on earth are they to do if they guilty from the start?
Would you like me to show you how the Qur'an shows infidel as 'the ultimate enemy' ?
go ahead, make my day.
My take:
"Any Israeli over age 18 is a legitimate target for suicide bombers because adult Israelis were required to do military service. They are part of the Israeli army, even if they have civilian clothes." Mohamed Elmasry, President, Canadian Islamic Congress
For further reading on the lowest common denominator, check out the Punic Wars (the north Africans lost).
"Hugh... what makes you thinks [sic] every Muslim follows "the Koran" to the letter? Is that maybe genetically inherent? I want an answer please."
-- from a Muslim poster exhibiting mental desarroi above
I don't think, and have never written, that "every Muslim follows 'the Koran' to the letter." Find me one example in my 5000 or so postings at this site. Adduce it.
But the problem is what is to be found in that Qur'an, what is in those Hadith (properly ahadith), what is in that Life of Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil to inspire to violence and deception and cruelty so many Believers find so appealing. Do you think that these texts cannot be examined and studied by Infidels? Do you think we are incapable of understanding those texts,of figuring out what they must mean to hundreds of millions of people raised up in belief-system from which it is impossible to dissent openly, where any sign of apostasy can lead to social ostracism and declared apostasy to death, where every converation, every phrase, is infused with allusions to the Qur'an and to the Life of Muhammad, where every other sentence contains an "inshallah" that encourages, in so many ways, the inshallah-fatalism that explains the failure of Muslim societies to develop economically, even though many of them have been, over the past 30 years, the beneficiaries of the most gigantic transfer of wealth -- on the part of those Muslim and Arab states, wealth that is not the product of an industrious or entrepreneurial or clever population, but merely reflects an accident of geology -- in human history.
No, I don't think all Muslims take every bit of the Qur'an literally. So what? Enough of them do. And enough of those who don't are still infused with its atttidues, its inculcated hatred of Infidels. And they continue to promote Jihad, even if not through violence. And by their attempts to promote and support Jihad, whether of those actively participating in violent forms, or by participating themselves in other ways, including the all-important task of attempting to confuse and distract Infidels in as many ways, and for as long, as possible, objectively they are Jihadists. They further the Jihad. They are therefore, whether or not they take the Qur'an quite literally, a menace to Infidels, a threat that needs to be recognized and clearly identified. Terrorists and those who justify them are only part of the problem. The most obvious part, but only part.
There's your answer. Now go read "The Dhimmi" and "Islam and Dhimmitude" and go to a few sites, such as www.faithfreedom.org, and www.answering-islam.org, and learn a little more about Islam. No, you probably know it all already, but don't find it bothers you. No, you will continue to propaganize for Islam.
And that is the most telling thing of all.
Eisvogel's analysis is spot on. Western Europe is nearing a tipping point. Some event, or series of events will jolt western Europeans to the realization that there is far greater risk, not only to their uncomfortable peace, but indeed to life and limb itself, by continuing to acquiesce to muslim bullying than to confront it. Then, as Eisvogel suggests, things will get a lot worse --everywhere, including the U.S., before they start to get better. I'm not sure Western civilization will come out intact, but when viewed clearly against islamic hell-on-earth, many will make the choice to preserve what they can of it. Some of the ideas that seem impossible to implement will be seen as rational and practical.
But who would doubt today that Japanese are loyal Americans citizens?
The Japanese are not involved in over 90% of violence in the world today. They are not advocating total domination and/or enslavement of the non-Japanese. They have adapted well and follow the laws of any country they reside in. They do not hold mass protests, shaking fists, burning flags, carrying hate slogans,etc. They do not impose their beliefs or will upon anyone. The Japanese excell in business and education and contribute greatly to world cooperation and health. Them Muslims are just the opposite.
watcher_83 YOU BET YOUR STINKING ASS WE’RE GOING TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THE TREACHEROUS, VILE CREATURES OF ISLAM. Their evil monuments of mass murder, greed, and destruction stand all over the world, and their reverse logic will not protect them much longer.
Jesus said love your enemy as you love yourself, but he also said don’t give your pearls to swine.
I want to tell you something. When I was in high school not so long ago, I had a class with a Muslim teacher and a couple of Muslim students. Guess what? The Muslim students always got 100% on quizzes and tests. People! There are no Muslim citizens! Muslims are infiltrators, and an infiltration.
The war has begun, and it is only a matter of getting Westerners to see it.
It has nothing to do with an imaginary Umma, when people support Hezbollah resistance against Israel and reject Israel brutal tactics. They are not doves to be at shot at at will. What about the Chassid.
The Muslims support Hezbollah aggression, their resistance is a direct result of Hezbollah attacks, Hezbollah must fight because Israel is fighting back, Hezbollah attacked first.
KORAN commands to kill infidels:
Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98
On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161
Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191
Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39
Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.
..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43
If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8
You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71
Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74
Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76
But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89
Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54
Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39
O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65
It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67
Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5
Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28
Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.
Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41
O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73
Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111
Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....
As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15
Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60
Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14
When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5
Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25
Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29
Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51
Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)
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KORAN promises of houris in heaven:
Single-minded slaves of Allah... will be honored in the Gardens of delight, on couches facing one another; A cup from a gushing spring is brought round for them, white, delicious to the drinkers, wherein there is no headache nor are they made mad thereby. And with them are those of modest gaze, with lovely eyes, pure as they were hidden eggs. - Surah 37:40-49
Lo, for those who ward off evil is a happy journey's end, Gardens of Eden, whereof the gates are opened for the, wherein, reclining, they call for plenteous fruit and cool drink therein. And with them are those of modest gaze, companions. This it is that ye are promised for the Day of Reckoning. - 38:50-54
Lo! Those who kept their duty will be in a place secure, amid gardens and water-springs, attired in silk and silk embroidery, facing one another.... And we shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes. They call therein for every fruit in safety. They taste not death therein, save the first death. And He hath saved them from the doom of hell, a bounty from thy Lord. That is the supreme triumph. - 44:51-57
Lo! Those who kept their duty dwell in gardens and delight... reclining on ranged couches. And we wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes... and we provide them with fruit and meat such as they desire.... - 52:17-22
...Reclining upon couches lined with silk brocade, the fruit of both the gardens near to hand.... Therein are those of modest gaze, whom neither man nor jinni will have touched before them.... - 55:54-56
Those are they who will be brought nigh, in gardens of delight... reclining therein face to face. There wait on them immortal youths... and fair ones with wide, lovely eyes, like unto hidden pearls, reward for what they used to do.... Lo! We have created them a creation, and made them virgins, lovers, friends. - 56:11-37
(Different translation) Companions with beautiful, big and lustrous eyes... virgin-pure and undefiled.
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