In an update on this story, the Indonesian Foreign minister discards national police deputy spokesman Anton Bahrul Alam's assertion that “We can and will prevent them from leaving.”
From Reuters: "Indonesia says can't keep militants out of Mideast"
JAKARTA (Reuters) - Indonesia has no way to prevent Muslim militants travelling from its shores to the Middle East or elsewhere to wage war against Israel, Foreign Minister Hassan Wirajuda said on Tuesday. The self-styled head of the Jakarta-based ASEAN Muslim Youth Movement said last week that more than 200 militants had been sent on missions to attack Israel's interests and countries that support the Jewish state.
Militant groups in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, have made claims in the past of sending volunteers to participate in conflicts overseas which have often proved exaggerated.
"We are a country with a system in which people are extremely free to travel overseas and no exit permit is required," Minister Wirajuda told reporters.
"Therefore we don't have a method to prevent people (from travelling) but we have issued a travel advisory... to remind our citizens that it is not safe to travel to Lebanon for any purpose," he said.
Wirajuda's comments appeared to contradict earlier police statements that they would prevent people from going to the Middle East or elsewhere to fight.
[...]
On Tuesday, a spokesman for a group led by firebrand Muslim cleric Abu Bakar Bashir, the Indonesian Mujahideen Council, said 500 volunteers were ready to be dispatched to Lebanon and Palestinian territory.
"We should not let anyone stand in the way of the intention by some Muslims to go to Lebanon and Palestine," Fauzan al Anshori told Metro TV.
Wirajuda said sending volunteers to fight Israeli troops would be a "reckless" move.
But go ahead and travel to Lebanon, and we'll trust you not to fight.
"There are many ways to carry out jihad (holy struggle). What's most urgently needed by the Lebanese is humanitarian assistance such as medicine and medical supplies," he said.
So they'll travel to Lebanon to wage the inner Jihad. Nothing that can be done in Sumatra or Java.
Bright side - fewer worries for local Infidels.
Memo to the IDF:
Stop all immigration, right now, from Indonesia, at least to this country. No tourist visas, no student visas, no nothing. Not until this all gets cleared up -- and let those whose plans were foiled be sure to blame the people making these threats, the imams who whip them up, the groups to which they belong or that support them, the televsion channels and madrasas and mosques supported by Saudi or other Arab money that are bringing to the attention of some who were once not quite to attentive to Islam, and therefore easier to deal with, less menacing, the full Qur'an, the full Sunna.
And perhaps a list can be complied as well of Western companies that have factories in Indonesia. Perhaps Nike, or Calvin Klein, or whatever it is, would prefer to move those factories to low-cost non-Muslim China, and to give up on Indonesia altogether, because clients can start to boycott, refuse to buy your products, and not only in this country, but in other Lands of the Infidels.
But first -- that list.
If dying in the name of Allah is so wonderful how come those rat infested bearded dipwads don't go blow themselves up and become martyrs?
No they enjoy preaching their hate and being the center of attention....Can't someone just plant a few sticks of dynamite in the podium before they belch out their BS?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2006/08/08/car-firebombed.html
And they won't stop them in Canada either.
Terrorist car-bomb portrayed as Corporate
agnst by working class, while Iraq and Bush are clearly mentioned the Keystone Kopps still don't see the Elephant in the room.
Toronto had 17 Jihadists arrested trying to purchase 6600 lbs. of amonium nitrate for truck bombs and the Police Chief holds a press conference at a Mosque to assure the public that Muslims and Islam had nothing to do with it , they were a mix of criminals from a cross section of society.
This is why the People ( as in WE the People)
must take back Governing from the Lawyers and elite Judges that just don't get it , Civil rights only work when everyone else is Civil .
The recent Pro-Hezbollah rallies in Canada by Arabs and Muslims claiming to want Peace are making it clear that THEY are becoming the "Invaders" and "Occupiers" wanting to claim North America for Islam and Allah.
Why doesn't the West set up a volunteer program a la the Flying Tigers or Ernest Hemingway where those who wanted to could fight with the Israelis?
It would be powerful, and every time something goes wrong, the Israelis could blame it.
Come on down, the IDF is waiting.
I agree with Hugh.
Stop the immigration and start voicing with your wallet, but verbalize it too.
Don't buy anything from Indonesia.
And if the goverment of Indonesia "can't stop it", then am I to assume that we will not be hearing condemnation or anything else from the Indonesian goverment with their Indonesian citizens start dying in Lebanan?
I CAN GUARENTEE that if Americans citizens started signing up and shipping off to attack Indonesia, the Indonesian goverment and all Human Rights groups would be screaming for the United States goverment and the U.N. to stop the American citizens.
Since Jakarta does seem to be unable to stem the tide of Indonesian jihadists heading off to Lebanon and other places (Middle) East and elsewhere, we certainly would be unable to prevent these dickheads from getting massacred over there!
Now, ain't THAT A PISSER!!!!!!!!!!!!
Watch this sentence:
Who inserts the parenthetical 'holy struggle'? I'm guessing Reuters. But no matter who did it, they managed to soften Wirajuda's words. He means it is more practical to send relief supplies. The parenthetical makes him sound as if he's saying it is holier to send supplies, instead of fighting.
The indo's will probably come back - but to Australia as Lebanese "refugees"; and our PC Multi-culti's will fight all the way to let them in the country.
HINEH LO YANUM V'LO YISHAN SHOMER YISRA'EL
Behold, He who keeps Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.
Any one here actually been to Indonesia?
I'm in Bali right now. My wife is Balinese (Hindu) and we've been married eight years.
What always strikes me about Indonesia is how poorly it has developed in comparison to its immediate neighbour Singapore (and even Malaysia or Thailand)
Singapore is an ultra-succesful, shiny new metropolis that has gone from third world backwater to first world global power in only thirty years.
Indonesians should be ashamed at their comparative failure. If they'd copied Singapore's approach they'd too be driving to and from work in shiny new Mercedes and BMWs.
Instead they find radical muslim groups springing up exhorting war.
It is certain apsects simply the predominant religion and culture that exists here that keeps Indonesia pegged back from proper development and the conditions for fomenting jihadists thrive in the classical way. Ignorance and bigotry are taught by one generation to the next with proper education, open mindedness and worldly experience (the only way to break the cycle) being denied to those who need it most.
Well, Singaporeans learnt this from the British, who founded that colony in 1819: If you think education is expensive try ignorance.
In my last job, some of our customers, who did have manufacturing facilities in Indonesia and Malaysia, decided to shift their manufacturing facilities to China following 9/11 - just the perception that these countries had become hotbeds of Jihad worked badly for them. Apart from China, Phillipines and Thailand are the newest places of cheap manufacturing. I believe that no company would be setting up shop in Malaysia or Indonesia, except to target their markets - political instability is enough of a put-off. Only question is getting companies already there to move out.
nmarks
Has the Indonesian Jihad on Christians as yet spilled over to Hindus in Bali and Lombok?
Infidel Pride: In someways it did when the 2002 bombing took place. More than 50 Balinese were killed in that atrocity, a fact oft forgotten. The 2005 Bali bombing, which affected my wife and I so disasterously, killed Balinese almost exclusively.
There were very few foreign casualties from that bombing. Westerners more often than not refer to The Bali Bombing (singular) when they should be refering to The Bali Bombings (plural).
The second bombing has all but been forgotten by the West because it wasn't affected . . . so that's alright then.
Changing the subject slightly; last night I was having a conversation with my wife and friends and raised the prospect of an Islamic Syariah insurrection.
Fans of Star Wars (Revenge of the
Sith) will already understand this: Remember the bit where the emperor orders troops to carry out secret plans to slaughter the Jedi?
This storyline is based on the real life plan executed by King Philip IV of France on Friday, October 13, 1307 to wipe out the the all powerful Knights Templar.
My fears are that Abu Bakar Baasyir, or such like, has already instigated similar moves. I mentioned in the discussion last night that the President of Indonesia, the Government, local authortiy leaders and especially in Bali the regency governors and banjars are all targets for such an insurrection:
Namely, cut off the head to leave the country in a power vacuum. Worse still the Balinese Hindus would be forced into converting to Islam.
Afterall, don't forget that the fundamentalists want a Caliphate running from Morocco to the Philippines. This explains the local troubles in each country east to west including the Philippines and Thailand.
This is the nightmare scenario, but then who thought on September 30th last year there'd be a second bomb in Bali? Neither did I.
Indonesia: We can't stop jihadists from leaving to fight Israel.
I suspect they don't want to stop them. The government reasons that if the terrorists leave to fight elswhere, maybe they won't fight here. I also suspect Indonesia would provide free airfare to those who want to leave to fight.
Indonesia is owned by the Muslim terrorists.I also agree that anyone who has factories or businesses in this hotbed of hatred seriously consider relocating. It is clear that the Muslims will take over the businesses or bomb them in the near future. There are many other countries more worthy of the dollars and jobs these businesses would bring.
I further agree the US should institute an immediate ban on all immigration of people from this area. From time to time the US has had a incident of boatloads of illegal people from this part of the world arrive trying to sneak into the country unannounced. Maybe they are looking for jobs but they could be arriving for
a more sinister motive.
The US government should immediately cease any weapons and aircraft sales to this country. The US Navy should be at a higher state of alert. You could see a "USS COLE" type of attack one day in Indonesia. There is a World War going on and the battlezone is indeed the entire world.
I remember reading a National Geographic magazine some time ago regarding Indonesia, Jakarta, and the islands of this area. The people are stripping and burning the land as such a pace that soon there will be no forests and no viable farms. Just like all Muslim lands, the Muslims turn the land into miserable dumps of despair. The Religion of Peace turns its followers into crazed zombies. After destroying the land, the people turn to destroying people -- all because the crazed clerics tell the people the Qu'ran tells them it is the honorable thing to do. And if you cannot kill enough people in your own land then you must go out and seek others to kill. You must seek out other lands to destroy, and if you die in the process then you have won.
This Islam--what an evil ideology it is.
Although other Southeast Asian nations may have developed more 'properly' than has Indonesia, they are virtually ALL ecological disasters and showcases of what should NOT be done to natural ecosystems! Most of these countries' practices regarding harvesting of natural resources have been prohibited by law in developed countries (and some underdeveloped ones too, luckily)for generations.
All of the forests in the region are have been badly decimated (even in non-Islamic countries like Thailand and the Philippines). Since 1960,
it is lkely that over 500,000 square miles of forested terrain in this region have been deforested by logging, plantation owners, and settlers. The coasts have been stripped of mangroves for shrimp farms, the beaches paved over relentlessly for resorts, and the wildlife ruthlessly and systematically extirpated. In the 1990s, the global orangutan population declined by at least 50%, and orangutans inhabit Malaysia AND Indonesia. In the 1990s a massive mudslide on Leyte Island in the Philippines took thousands of lives--the cause was massive deforestation.
If THIS is your idea of development, you can keep it. There must be other ways to bring the benefits of modernization to these countries without laying such waste to the land. With depleted natural resources,this region's future does not look so rosy. I see desertification, droughts, and potential famines ahead! I also suspect logging companies active in the area have ties to mosques and sell timber on the black market and funnel the profits to al-Qaeda (Malaysia is a prime suspect).
Before you begin the tired old argument that the developed nations all did the same thing I would like to mention that conservation practices DID accompany development in many developed nations the likes of which are rarely if ever seen in Southeast Asia. The 9000 square mile Adirondack Mountains Preserve in New York state was initiated in 1890.
A friend of mine from Bandung, Java once remarked to me that he was certain that Southeast Asia would be a desert within one hundred years. I believe he was right (and this would apply to ALL of the region, not only Indonesia).
pythagoras
Indonesia is racked with corruption. It regularly features in the top three most corrupt countries in the world according to all sorts of polls, from the most august institutions, including the United Nations.
This largely stems from the ancient Javanese feudal practice of presenting gifts to kings in their courts. This practice permeated through every layer of society so that today, whenever one visits those in positions of authority one is considered to be in their court and therefore must present gifts.
When Indonesia began adopting Western institutions such as Government, the Judiciary and so on, with their Greco-Roman hierachical structures, the old Javanese habits were necessarily sown into the fabric.
Quite simply, Western institutions only work well in the culture they were developed by, or the host culture must adapt to the new style of thinking. Where the host culture is incompatible, such institutions will fail to function to their potential.
Under Suharto's regime (1966-1998) corruption was at the grandest possible scale. The Suharto family set up a quango in Jakarta for the stated purpose of scutinizing inward foreign investment proposals. Naturally those intending to invest in Indonesia had to cough up substantial sums of money to facilitate the scrutinization process. In reality it was a form of extortion. The Suhartos, through their quango were really saying this: Want low cost labour? A bundle of unmarked notes first, thankyou.
Suharto made billions of dollars which to this day still sit in bank accounts in Geneva. His son, Tommy owns (or did) Lamborgini the sports car manufacturer.
Suharto's wife, Tien Suharto,(the power behind the throne) became so adept at corrupt practices she earned the nick name 'Tien Percent', for the commission she earned.
Suharto was deposed from power 8 years ago and there has been something of a struggle between die-hard Suharto loyalists and anti-Suharto firebrands to bring the former President to justice, Pinochet style.
The loyalists have largely won as Suharto has managed to evade attempts to try him for his abuse of office. He's too old, too infirm, failing memory. Any excuse to keep him out of court.
Since 1998, Indonesia has seen several Presidents elected democratically to office, notably Megawati Sukarnoputri and the current President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono (SBY).
I am not Indonesian and not Muslim, am I nor a supporter or apologist for either.
I would however urge you to do some more homework before condeming so readily. About two months ago the Straits Times in Singapore published an interview with SBY. Knowing nothing about the guy I was actually humbled and pleasantly suprised by what he had to say. The guy has a Phd and is a former army general. He has a clear direction where he wants to take Indonesia and its actually the sort of vision most fair minded Westeners would recognise and feel comfortable with.
SBY has done a considerable amount to tackle corruption by concedes a lot more needs to be done.
Corruption is largely the reason so much of Indonesia's vast forests are under threat.
If like me, you feel strongly about eco conservation, one measure you can take is to boycott products gotten from such appalling acts.
For example, in the UK there has over the last few years, been a huge fad over wooden floor decking in people's homes. This is merely a passing egotistical novelty but one which encourages illegal logging and the destruction of irreplaceable ancient rain forests.
Brazil is another infamous example. Incidentally a few years ago I heared a statistic that the UK is the fourth largest consumer of wood products in the world. Well, if you want to know where the rain forests have gone trying looking under your feet.
Corruption, vanity, ignorance, bigotry. Jsut a few of the human flaws that hasten the end of human civilisation. Armageddon out of here.
PS: hands up who knew all this stuff in this detail already?