Why was it even legal for Egypt to have a wall on its border with Gaza in the first place? Why wasn't this the subject of international protests?
"Exclusive: Hamas 'spent months cutting through Gaza wall in secret operation,'" by James Hider for the Times (thanks to all who sent this in):
As tens of thousands of Palestinians clambered back and forth between the Gaza strip and Egypt today, details emerged of the audacious operation that brought down a hated border wall and handed the Islamist group Hamas what might be its greatest propaganda coup.Hamas, which took control of the coastal territory last June after a stand-off with Fatah, has denied that its men set off the explosions that brought down as much as two-thirds of the 12-km wall in the early hours.
But a Hamas border guard interviewed by The Times at the border today admitted that the Islamist group was responsible and had been involved for months in slicing through the heavy metal wall using oxy-acetylene cutting torches.
That meant that when the explosive charges were set off in 17 different locations after midnight last night the 40ft wall came tumbling down, leaving it lying like a broken concertina down the middle of no-man's land as an estimated 350,000 Gazans flooded into Egypt.
The guard, Lieutenant Abu Usama of the Palestinian National Security, said of the cutting operation: "I've seen this happening over the last few months. It happened in the daytime but was covered up so that nobody would see."
Asked whether he had reported it to the government, he replied: "It was the government that was doing this. Who would I report it to?"
Abu Usama, who normally works from a small guard cabin in no-man's land, added: "Last night we were told to keep away from the wall. We were ordered to stay away because they were going to break the blockade."
The skill of the Hamas demolition operation was clear to see along the border today, although The Times could not visit the entire length of the border. Where the charges had been laid, the wall was heavily damaged. Elsewhere it appeared to be clearly cut.
The destruction of the wall prompted hundreds of thousands to cross into Egypt – and Egyptian border guards did not try to stem the tide of humanity.
"the tide of humanity"
I beg to differ
Let Egypt have them.
Feed them.
Clothe them.
Fuel them.
Serpents devouring serpents.
Like in a book I once read about Egypt.
The Carter Effect - Or No Thanks, I Think I'll Sit This One Out
The Egyptians had no problem annexing Gaza in 1948. Its people should be considered Egyptians. They deserve to get it dumped in their laps so that they can reap the rewards of forty years of jihad.
These people are up to so much evil we probably can't even comprehend it, meanwhile , we have politicians like Obama and Hillary arguing over whether she attacked Obama or her husband did.
Our politicians are so woefully inadequete for these times it's disturbing.
"Why was it even legal for Egypt to have a wall on its border with Gaza in the first place?"
....I am guessing, probably the same reason the Israelies are building their wall....to keep the murdering Palestinians away from decent people....?...
Wall jihad. Why is there a wall between Egypt and Gaza. Are they oppressors, islamophobes?
The Egyptians had no problem annexing Gaza in 1948.
Egypt *didn't* annex Gaza in 1948. Gaza was merely under Egyptian military administration, which was deliberately intended not to prejudice the establishment of a Palestinian state that included Gaza.
You're probably thinking of the West Bank, which Jordan *did* annex, because King Abdullah wasn't very enthusiastic about a Palestinian state in any case, and didn't mind if his annexation were to prejudice the future establishment of such a state. (That annexation, BTW, wasn't recognized by any country, other than Pakistan and the UK.)
Why wasn't this the subject of international protests?
Probably for the same reason there wouldn't have been a lot of international protests if Israel had built its security barrier along the Green Line.
It's only oppression if it's jews doing the opressing. If Egyptions (or other muslims) do it to other paleostinians, it's not oppression, it's the Egyptions protecting themselves from the Jews coming through Gaza.
"But a Hamas border guard interviewed by The Times at the border today admitted that the Islamist group was responsible and had been involved for months in slicing through the heavy metal wall using oxy-acetylene cutting torches."
...wow! .... have you ever seen the bright flashes and listened to the noises given off by licing through heavy metal by oxy=acetylyen torches?......
.....you would have to be blind and deaf not to notice...
...so much for Egyptian security....
The guard, Lieutenant Abu Usama of the Palestinian National Security, said of the cutting operation: "I've seen this happening over the last few months. It happened in the daytime but was covered up so that nobody would see."
"I've seen this happening...that nobody would see."
Verrry Interesting...So he sees something that no one sees.
And the Egyptian guards do nothing.
I smell a Hamas stage production with paid actors.
Theater jihad. Having two purposes, propaganda, and aiding deprived Palestinians get some cigarettes and milk.
Especially the cigarettes. I would walk a mile for a camel is especially true in Gaza...
Why doesn't Gaza become part of Egypt? And the west bank become part of Jordan? There isn't any reason not to is there? (Other than to harass Israel) Pride? They are the same people. Why don't they merge?
They aren't large enough to become viable states on their own.
And with a border open with Egypt and Jordan they certainly wouldn't be cut off from basic supplies and even more than basic supplies. They complain that Israel is cutting them off which makes it sound like Israel is the only option they have which it isn't.
And if they would take the money they get and create an economy with it, like tourism (can't do that when your fighting) or industry ( can't do that when your fighting) they wouldn't depend on Israel for anything.
If those nitwits spent half the time improving their economy that they do in Jihad and related shenanigans, Gaza would thrive. But that would be so boring...
40ft steel wall. First I heard of this wall. So now what. What is the real purpose of this move by Hamas? Will the heavy artillary now rumble in?
I think you missed the point of Robert's question. Here, you have the 'international community' protesting Israel's wall of separation from the West Bank, and now croc tears over the power outages in Gaza. Hence the question: if it's not legal for Israel to have a wall, why is it okay for Egypt to do so?
OT There is a teaser for Wilder's film on you tube.
HERE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYS3PCBsJjE
Robert,
Did you know he was going to use your videos?
Cordially,
Aunt Bea
Would be useful to have some sort of semi-responsible government running the show, I guess.
This event shows how terrible rulers Hamas are. They'll willing throw their own people to pure desperation and let everything descend into chaos.
Actually, the Arab countries should pay Israel to intervene and restore order :)
SonofIsaac said
Me too. So many gallons of ink wasted writing about the Iraeli "apartheid wall", which actually just saves the lives of the "Palestinian" homicide bombers and their Israeli victims, and here the Egyptians had a 40ft. steel wall all along.
We will look back on our coverage in bewilderment some day. Right now it just makes me very angry.
If it weren't for the fact that we'd be importing more Mohammedans, I'd ask whether we could import those Egyptians to build a 40ft wall on the US-Mexico border.
egypt knew all about this, and turned a blind eye - to gain deniability.
many gazans returned with non-necessities - like 25" tv's.
what they can't get by intimidating the west, they steal.
"Hence the question: if it's not legal for Israel to have a wall, why is it okay for Egypt to do so?
Posted by: Infidel Pride"
...ok...so I am not the sharpest tack in the room....thanks,....
I loved CNN's spin labeled article 'Egypt 'opens up' to Palestinians'.
Egypt is doing this out of compassion and humanitarian needs, according to the article.
It does not mention the wall was blown up. That alot of the Palestinians did not want to be in Palestine in the first place and would like to flee. That alot of the Palestinians are stealing 'electronic goods', which kind of puts the 'humanitarian needs' in question.
I agree that since we are already paying about 20-25% of Egypts national expenses we should increase the contribution to Egypt and then let Egypt run Gaza as a annexed housing project. They can run it for profit, but they are responsible as a 'State' for their people and their actions.
It is time that the muslim countries fix their local problem by taking in Palestinians, schooling them, giving them jobs, and make them citizens. Their 'brother' muslims needs to quit keeping Palestinians 'prisoners of and in a political agenda' and take them in.
I wonder what each rocket launched from Gaza into Israel actually costs, in terms of an economic penalty per capita? I bet those are some expensive rockets, but then, killing Zionists is priceless.
I'm not up on this. Why did they want to go to Egypt? Someone please explain.
"I'm not up on this. Why did they want to go to Egypt? Someone please explain.
Posted by: poetcomic1"
...those dang Israelies keep shooting back....
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
Nope, not even close to what's going on in Gaza. Hamas can't even supply it's people (victims) with the necessities of life (you try and get along without cigarettes and TV, infidel swine!) and the solution is (always) to blow something up.
"Mr. Olmert, we've blow up your wall!"
Nope, Ronnie's still got the chops.
And by the way, weren't the Egyptians responsible for building the pyramids? As for building a fence on the border with Gaza, not so much.
Wow. It's not just a breach, it's a near-total demolision, some 75 % of it brought down. A map is here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7204029.stm
Hamas really wanted to break it so they can have free access to ammo & explosives from Egypt.
"Nope, not even close to what's going on in Gaza. Hamas can't even supply it's people (victims) with the necessities of life (you try and get along without cigarettes and TV, infidel swine!) and the solution is (always) to blow something up."
...ADD...no jobs, no music allowed, no satellite tv allowed, can't buy cars, can't get haircuts, not allowed to be friends with your Jewish/Christian neighbors, very limited books allowed to be read, talk radio? forget that...sensible childrens books verbotten....no education, women can't wear comfortable clothes, dang feuding politicians running around all the time shooting up the neighborhoods, dang jihadists all the time shooting rockets causing sudden Israeli responses , often explosive Israeli responses....dang jihadists all the time kidnapping your women....sudden demand from jihadists for shar'ia law which greatly restricts your human individuality and freedom of thought....no air conditioning....and those dang jihadists all the time bellowing in your ear...kill yourself,kill yourself,kill yourself....perfume and cologne have been outlawed...travel permits are near impossible to get....those dang jihadists children think they run the place, heck they even carry guns....can't go fishing...Israel gunboats checking everything that moves....no campgrounds...no movies....no entertainment....no happiness.....only 5 prayers a day, hate spewing Islamic clerics, god awful heat.... and always the violence, the violence taught by the bearded fingerpointing clerics....
OT There is a teaser for Wilder's film on you tube.
HERE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYS3PCBsJjE
Robert,
Did you know he was going to use your videos?
Cordially,
Aunt Bea
Thanks for info Aunt Bea,
can't wait for the video to come out.....
I predict a riot!!!
exsgtbrown sums it up above perfectly...were it not so pitiful and dangerous, islam should be the laughing stock of the world.
I have a feeling that this is all a screen for a mass smuggling of weapons and fellow Jihad terrorists that are hard to bring in otherwise.
"I have a feeling that this is all a screen for a mass smuggling of weapons and fellow Jihad terrorists that are hard to bring in otherwise.
Posted by: SonofIsaac"
...Muslims have no problem getting weapon or jihadists into Gaza....no one is stopping them...
Well, at least this lays to rest the notion that the Palestinians are not creative and independent. Shows a can-do state of mind. Perhaps they don't need all that EU largess now.
Shouldn't this be referred to as an "Apartheid Wall?"
"Muslims have no problem getting weapon or jihadists into Gaza....no one is stopping them."
Actually, the Israelis used to stop them, which is part of the conditions that they left Gaza in the first place - they have the right to check the border for smuggling of weapons, explosives and known Jihadis, if I recall correctly.
Must say, some big hole they've blown in that control...
Sorry guys but according to the AP:
"The border fence was erected by Israel after the outbreak of a second Palestinian uprising in 2000."
But, if Israel built it, there should've been giant protests still, right? :-)
As reported by David Hornik, Frontpagemage this morning, George W. Bush got on the anti-Israel band wagon -- with the rest of the world's Jew-haters -- in defense of his jihadist friends:
Hornik wrote: "On Tuesday Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told reporters that “Nobody wants innocent Gazans to suffer and so we have spoken to the Israelis about the importance of not allowing a humanitarian crisis to unfold there.” She didn’t explain why, in her numerous visits to Israel in recent years, she has never perceived a humanitarian crisis in Sderot or any need to relieve its residents’ suffering.
"U.S. ambassador to the UN Zalmay Khalilzad chimed in with, “We do believe that attacks against Israel are unacceptable and that it has the right to defend itself, but we have also said that when Israel defends itself it has to take the impact on civilians into account.” Translation: “Israel does not have the right to defend itself, since in acting against Gaza terrorists it is impossible to avoid sometimes harming Gaza civilians, and we could much more easily live with another seventy years of bombardment of Sderot than have that happen.”
The existence of this wall must be one of the best kept secrets in the West! I, like several other commenters here, have never heard of it before!
And as Robert asks, why was it not the subject of international protests?
Right, monk. It's all just Bush doublespeak, otherwise known as Bushfusion.
The existence of this wall must be one of the best kept secrets in the West! I, like several other commenters here, have never heard of it before!
And as Robert asks, why was it not the subject of international protests?
Jewdog, what is Bushfusion? May I ask? I've not seen this term until now?
They aren’t able to administer themselves as a civilized state, so they should be annexed and merged into their Arab neighbors’ states. Problem solved… except for Egypt and Jordan, who now have hostile murderous jihadi hordes inside their borders. Too bad, then their problem and not ours. Maybe those Egyptian and Jordanian Arabs are “islamophobes” so don’t want them?
I say “tear down that wall, Mr. Mubarak”!... and let them all play in their sandbox together... if they can without murdering each other for their Prophet (pbuh)… he who said “War is deceit.”
Seamus,
Thanks for the correction. You were right about Egypt. They not only denied the Gazans Egyptian citizenship, they deliberately kept them in the refugee camps in order to tarnish Israel and to arouse pan-Arab sentiments. This 1956 quote from Nasser says a lot:
The Palestinans are useful to the Arab states as they are. We will always see that they do not become too powerful. Can you imagine yet another nation on the shores of the eastern Mediterranean?"
I've ordered my olivewood "Nativity with Wall" from Samir Wahbi's West Bank Souvenir
Shoppe. Wonder if they will have a "Flight of the Holy Family into Egypt with Wall". I'd like to collect the entire set.
The MSM press has often been full of outrage against Israel whenever it cuts electrical power to Gaza in respnse to rocket attacks. And I've seen numerous articles about how Israel has "blockaded" Gaza so that it can't get shipments of food and medicine. One article wept about how a Gaza hospital had only enough emergency electrical power to run either the maternity ward or the surgical unit, but not both, with the implication that many would die because of Israeli "cruelty". Reading these articles I often wondered how Israel could "blockade" Gaza, since the latter has both a seacoast and a land frontier with Egypt. Why weren't supplies of food and other necessities simply shipped across the Egypt-Gaza border? Why weren't there electrical power lines from Egypt to Gaza? One would think that the Egyptians could do a good business selling to the Gazans. Well now we know the answer: the Egyptians had built a rather more formidable barrier along their frontier with Gaza than had the Israelis. Yet it was the Israeli barrier that was the subject of MSM indignation and blustering from the Moslem world.
Posted by: alaskan1000
I loved CNN's spin labeled article 'Egypt 'opens up' to Palestinians'.
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=3&x_outlet=14&x_article=1429
January 21, 2008 by Gilead Ini
“Behind the Scenes” of CNN Bias
Ben Wedeman, CNN’s senior correspondent in Jerusalem, speaks fluent Arabic and has a "working knowledge" of Hebrew, according to his profile on CNN.com. But that doesn’t mean he should understand the grievances of Arabic speaking Palestinians better than those of Hebrew speaking Israelis.
"Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians crossed into Egypt from Gaza on Wednesday after gunmen destroyed about two-thirds of the Gaza-Egypt border wall. Most of the Gazans returned after stocking up on food and other basic supplies that have become scarce due to the blockade imposed on the territory by Israel."
cited from mideast.jpost.com
An example of the press coverage I mentioned in my previous post. Funny how it's the barrier on the Israeli frontier that is responsible for scarcities, and not the one on the Egyptian frontier.
monk quoted U.S. ambassador to the UN Zalmay Khalilzad, who said:
There is no "but". There is nothing more to add. The sentence is complete.
At my former job I worked next to a Naval Reserve Captain. He was an engineer. He said in his monthly breifings, that when the Jihadists want to start changing the boundaries of countries, the crap will hit the fan. I think this will be the start of something new.
An earlier poster alluded to the problems that these people will have with the Egyptian government. Things may prove very interesting.
OT
The San Francisco Bay Area police have arrested 140 in a copper theft sting. Oh, and by the way, they also nabbed several homemade bombs, built to be detonated by cell-phone.
No description or common characteristics of any of the suspects.
I question the timing of this.
Who's in the scrap metal business?
"Why was it even legal for Egypt to have a wall on its border with Gaza in the first place? Why wasn't this the subject of international protests?"
Like many posters have noted this wall in Egypt never rated a mention anywhere. I had known no muslim country wants Pallies, but this rarely gets into the news anywhere also.
I spoke to a few friends who had never heard of this wall till I told them.
Somewhat OT,
an Aussie weekly mag, called "The Bulletin", which looks, coverwise, a little like "Time" magazine has just published its last edition.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23100871-661,00.html
I am wondering if we are going to see a trend within the MSM of publications closing.
I believe this is possibly due to the fact that people aren't falling for the MSM as they have in the past. People are realising that the papers and tv news services are just dumbing us down.
I believe the 'blogosphere is on the verge of a major impact - more so than before.
BTW has anyone heard from Leonthepigfarmer? His 'blog has been down for a long time.
Maybe 'LeonThePigFarmer' recanted and converted to 'AlarmedPigFarmer'. I wonder.
Anyone who had not heard of this wall was not paying attention. Correct me if I am wrong here:
Israel traded Sinai back to Egypt in return for promises of peace and some security guarantees from Egypt. Smuggling of arms from the Sinai into Gaza nonetheless became an increasing security concern to Israel. When Israel was still attempting to control terrorism in Gaza, it built the wall in an effort to prevent arms from being smuggled into Gaza from the Sinai. Egypt was supposed to help prevent such arms smuggling, but the wall was being frequently breached by tunnels dug under it into Egypt. The Egyptian efforts to prevent such activity were not the best.
Now, with the wall coming down completely, and the Egyptians watching and doing nothing, the Israelis must be wondering what is left of their peace treaty with Egypt.
Havoc
maybe???
It's just that some sites, like Foehammer's Anvil have been brutally attacked.
Could someone help me out with this wall? I don't know the background.
Who built the wall? Did Egypt build it to keep Gazans out of Egypt or did Israel build it to control terrorists and their implements from flowing in freely from Egypt? How has this wall been functioning since it was built?
The function of the wall seems to make a great difference in how I will feel about its destruction.
Just a thought . . .
Premeditated. Flawlessly executed. "Hundreds of thousands" cross -
or should it read 'flee'?
Such actions, giving consideration to recent events in Lebanon, Syria and Iran bring to mind the events of 1948, when Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser warned fellow muhammedans to evacuate Israel because Arab forces would 'push the Jews into the Sea'.
Errata Sheet
For "Egypt *didn't* annex Gaza in 1948. Gaza was merely under Egyptian military administration, which was deliberately intended not to prejudice the establishment of a Palestinian state that included Gaza." (in a posting above)
Read "Egypt *didn't* annex Gaza in 1948. Gaza was merely under Egyptian military administration, which was deliberately intended not to prejudice the establishment of an Arab state in what had been in Mandatory Palestine, a state that would include Gaza."
For "You're probably thinking of the West Bank, which Jordan *did* annex, because King Abdullah wasn't very enthusiastic about a Palestinian state in any case, and didn't mind if his annexation were to prejudice the future establishment of such a state. (That annexation, BTW, wasn't recognized by any country, other than Pakistan and the UK.)
Read "You're probably thinking of the West Bank, which Jordan *did* annex, because King Abdullah wasn't very enthusiastic about a new Arab state in Western Palestine in any case, and didn't mind if his annexation were to prejudice the future establishment of such a state. (That annexation, BTW, wasn't recognized by any country, other than Pakistan and the UK.)"
One thereby avoids the anachronistic use of "Palestinian" which was not appropriated by the Arabs for use as a noun (the "Palestinians" in their conceivably "Palestinian state") until after the Six-Day War. And every word, of course, must be used with care so as not to unwittingly adopt the language that has been carefully crafted by those conducting Jihad -- whether that Jihad takes place against Israel, or against other Infidels, anywhere else.
Once again the Canadian media has made Israel the villian in this report , and yet they failed to notice a paradoxical irony because the alleged 350'000 fleeing Refugees went on a shopping spreee and then RETURNED to the hell-hole that forces them to be suicide bombers and Jihadist thugs.
The battered-spouse syndrome has crossed over to Palestinians as Battered-Mulims syndrome where no matter how oppressive and violent islam becomes under Sharia and Hamas , Muslims keep going back to Allah with the hope the "This time" Islam will be truely Peaceful as promised by Muhammad .
This looks like another Hamas stunt to exploit the useful idiots who volunteer to be Victims and Flee the Occupation and Strife to shop in Egypt which is such a worse hell-hole for Sharia and violence that Gaza under the israel controls looks pretty good and they run back to the border as a Refugee from Egypt .
Incredible but true folks.
OT but interesting
Michael Savage vs. CAIR
http://dustmybroom.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1859&Itemid=29
find the video here in 'recent articles'
http://www.americansagainsthate.org/cw/
Hugh - can I contribute to the errata sheet, too? I don't think it went quite far enough.
Here's my version.
For - "Egypt *didn't* annex Gaza in 1948. Gaza was merely under Egyptian military administration, which was deliberately intended not to prejudice the establishment of a Palestinian state that included Gaza." (in a posting above)
Read - "Egypt *didn't* annex Gaza in 1948. Gaza was merely under Egyptian Muslim military administration, which was deliberately intended not to prejudice the establishment of a Muslim-dominated Arab state in what had been Mandatory Palestine, a state that would include Gaza."
For "You're probably thinking of the West Bank, which Jordan *did* annex, because King Abdullah wasn't very enthusiastic about a Palestinian state in any case...
Read "You're probably thinking of the 'west bank' (sic: more correctly, historic Judea and Samaria), which Jordan *did* annex, because King Abdullah wasn't very enthusiastic about a new Arab state in Western Palestine in any case.."
From John Loftus, about the supposed electricity cut off. Sorry for the spam job.
http://www.loftusreport.com/
"Loftus says power outage is a Hamas fraud
Don’t be taken in by pictures of poor Palestinian kids holding candles in the dark and blaming Israel. Israel supplies 3/4 of all power to Gaza, and kept all the power running. It was Hamas which shut down their own power plant in Gaza, plunging a tiny corner into darkness. Hamas has been stealing fuel for its own coffers, but has run into a roadblock as Israel is now shipping fuel direct to Gaza hospitals.
Israel has not cut power, it has cut down on gasoline sales. If Hamas wants to keep firing rockets at Israel, let them walk. Since Hamas is effectively at war with Israel, the bordr crossings remain closed. Abbas has offered to let his forces into Gaza to run the crossings, but Hamas has objected as that would be an admission of failure. Instead, Hamas is sending thousands of women to the border with Egypt, demanding that their fellow muslims open the border. Not bloody likely, is the Egyptian response. They dont like Hamas either.
Shame on the LA Times, CBC and others for blaming this power debacle on Israel. The darkness in south Gaza is purely of Hamas making"
See? I can cut 'n' paste with the best of 'em.
"If Hamas wants to keep firing rockets at Israel, let them walk."
Ooooooooooh! Islamophobia.
Such actions, giving consideration to recent events in Lebanon, Syria and Iran bring to mind the events of 1948, when Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser warned fellow muhammedans to evacuate Israel because Arab forces would 'push the Jews into the Sea'.
That would have been a neat trick, given that Nasser didn't become the "Egyptian President" until 1954.