The Byzantine icon above is the work of the 16th-century iconographer Theophanes the Cretan. There are many things that are un-Islamic about it:
1. It is an image of human beings, which violates the traditional Islamic prohibition of images;
2. It depicts Jesus not as a Muslim prophet but as the incarnate Son of God (his halo reads ο ων, the One Who Is, a title of divinity derived from the name of God that God gives to Moses in Exodus 3:14), in violation of the oft-repeated Qur'anic injunction that Allah has no Son (4:171; 9:30; 25:2; 39:4; 72:3; etc. etc.);
3. In line with #2, it depicts what Muslims would consider to be idolatry, as the holy child's mother kneels and adores him;
4. In the beam or spear coming from heaven down to the child in the cradle, it depicts the activity of the Divine in the world, assuming the doctrine of the Trinity, which is rejected somewhat imprecisely in Qur'an 4:171 and 5:116;
5. The cradle resembles a casket, foreshadowing the redemptive death of Christ, which is denied in Qur'an 4:157.
Now, whether you are a Christian or not, whether or not you believe all or any of these things, the question that is before us this Christmas and every Christmas these days is whether or not people should be allowed to believe these things if they think they are true. Nowhere in the Islamic world today do people who believe these things enjoy full equality of rights with Muslims. In Pakistan, Iraq, Egypt and elsewhere Christians are frequently victimized because, as I have tried to show above, some of their core beliefs are considered blasphemous in authoritative Islam.
And that assumption of blasphemy, since Islam is a political program as well as a set of religious beliefs, does not allow for live-and-let live tolerance of those with whom one disagrees. The blasphemers and those who insult Islam must be subjugated under the rule of the Muslims. We see this agenda being articulated every day; we see Christians and others victimized by it every day; and we see the world largely yawning and indifferent as all this goes on.
This Christmas, remember that the Islamic supremacist program has you on its list. You may not be a Christian. You may not be a Jew. You may not be a Hindu. But the jihad is universal. You are on the list.
So this Christmas, may all of us whose conversion, subjugation, or death is envisioned by the adherents of Sharia stand together. Let us stand together as Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, secularists, what have you, and stand up against those who would kill us or subject us to institutionalized discrimination because they find our beliefs offensive.
For be assured: if we do not stand together, they will prevail. And if they do, and all the rich expressions of the human spirit, from Theophanes the Cretan to the fashioners of the Buddhas of Bamiyan, from Aristotle to Oriana, will be trampled into the mud, destroyed, exploded, ruined, effaced. We will all be the poorer. Our children will be the poorer.
Merry Christmas to all Christian Jihad Watchers who celebrate the Feast on this day.
I too would like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas. Have a good one.
Thank you for your honourable mission to protect and defend equal and equitable human rights despite the evils of the Koran and Sharia camouflaged within Islam's dark heart. Please visit as at Syntheopoiesis, and our petition
against genocide in Uganda. Praying for you much prosperity and strength of spirit now at Christmas and throughout the new year, Greek Orthodox Constantinopolitans knowing dhimmitude first-hand through mental trauma, physical torture and death, but never by spiritual distress of the soul. Our hearts they cannot touch or diminish.
My best wishes to you all.
Dag.
Merry Christmas to everyone.
Merry Christmas to everyone.
My best wishes to you, Robert, and thank you for your courage and dedication to educate us. May the world and all its citizens survive this third jihad brought upon us by muslims, so that we become better individuals free of obtuse theologies and ready to make this indeed a better world to live in for generations to come.
God Bless us everyone....MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
that's a great post. It's a good thing we don't live in muslim-majority nations. We have the freedom to celebrate christmas, or not. Merry X-mas to jihad watch and pamela geller and all others who talk about the real islam.
" Nowhere in the Islamic world today do people who believe these things enjoy full equality of rights with Muslims."
Does Central Asia count as part of the Islamic world?
Second, do you not consider the policies advocated by you, Hugh Fitzgerald and Mr. Wilders to be discriminatory towards Muslims? It's a little difficult to take you seriously if you contradict the very principles you claim to be defending.
Fitzgerald: What's at stake
A short list of what has been put at risk with the rapid Islamization of Europe:
Some time ago I observed that “without Europe the West becomes comical” – and was almost immediately asked to explain. Here goes:
The British Museum.
The Louvre.
The Prado.
The National Gallery.
The Uffizi.
The Rijksmeum.
Alte Pinakothek.
The Vatican Museum.
The Library at Chatsworth.
The Concertgebouw.
The canals of Venice.
The Piazza della Signoria.
Florence.
Umbria.
The Dulwich Gallery.
Paris.
Toledo.
The Tivoli Gardens.
The Boboli Gardens.
The Jardin des Plantes.
Las Ramblas in Barcelona.
The Juderia in Cordoba.
The Portuguese Synagogue in Amsterdam.
Trinity College Great Court.
Rome.
Pushkin's house and library in St. Petersburg.
Musee Guimet. Musee of Nissim Camondo. Jeu de Paume. The Luxembourg Gardens
Versailles.
Tolstoy's house at Yasnaya Polyana.
Linnaeus's house in Uppsala.
Uppsala.
Tsarskoe Selo.
The Dulwich Gallery.
Dickens's House.
Samuel Johnson's House.
Oxford.
Cambridge.
The National Railway Museum in York.
The islands of Lewis and Harris.
Chartres.
The house of Bourges.
The birthplace of Hans Christian Andersen in Odense.
Stratford-on-Avon.
Swans on the Avon River.
The Thames.
The Seine.
The Ebro.
The Tiber.
The Danube.
The Palazzo of the D'Este family in Ferrara.
The Palazzo Pubblico in Siena.
The Pinacoteca in Siena.
Spoleto.
San Gimignano.
The Villa Lante.
The caves of Lascaux.
The caves of Altamira.
St. Sulpice.
The Palazzo Farnese.
The Piazza Farnese.
The Piazza Navona.
The Spanish Steps.
The house of Gogol at 47, via Sistina.
The house of Keats (now called the Keats-Shelley House).
Via Condotti. Via del Babuino.
The obelisk in the Piazza Minerva.
The fountain in the Piazza Navona.
La Barcaccia.
Trinita dei Monti.
Musee de Cluny.
Mont Saint-Michel.
Ile de Re.
Musee Andre-Jacquemart.
The lavander fields in Senanque.
The Bibliotheque Nationale.
The Colosseum.
The Parthenon.
Arezzo.
The street of alfarrabistas in Lisbon.
Lisbon.
The mist on Malvern Hill.
Tintern Abbey.
The gardens at Chiswick.
Lac Leman.
Prague.
Cracow.
Buda.
Pest.
And all the rest.
The King James version of the Bible. The Wyclif. The Tyndale.
Wynkyn de Worde. Sir Kenelm Digby. Sir John Maundeville. Boswell. Bosworth Field.
And lest we forget, Geoffrey and William and John, and Jane, and Charles, and Philip. Michel, Andre, Victor, Charles, Paul, Marcel, and Georges and Philip. Wislawa and Zbigniew and Czeslaw. Jaroslav. Jorge, Teresa, Francisco, Miguel, Teresa, JorgePiet, Harry. Gavriil, Aleksandr, Nikolai, Fyodor, Afanasy, Lev, Anton, Ivan, Mark, Osip, Marina, Boris, Vladimir, Vladislav, Mikhail. Jacopone, Guido, Francesco and Dante, all the way up to Giacomo, Eugenio, Dino and Primo and Italo. Christoph, Johann, Franz, Karl.
Have I left anyone out? Yes, because I only have 3 minutes to write this article before other duties call.
So fill it all in yourself. Don't forget a few it may be, in all the fuss, simply to overlook -- you know, such as Mozart, and Isaac Newton, and Spinoza, and Hume, and Rembrandt, and a few people like that whom I just forgot to list. Gosh, I left out Leonardo. And Michelangelo. And Beethoven. Oops, I keep thinking of new names, new places, new things to add.
Goodness, this could go on for more than five minutes -- I'm now up to seven minutes.
Not all Europeans are named Patten, Solana, and Prodi. Not all are called Jacques Chirac, Dominique de Villepin, George Galloway, and Gerhard Schroder. Some of them are worth thinking about.
Everyone has his own private list. I open to my own O and find Odile, Oswyn, Osvaldo, and Oscar, and...well, you do it with your own mental address-book. And ask yourself, would you like to turn your backs on all of these people, and have them, or their descendants, live in an islamized Europe, with all that that implies?
You don't care? They deserve what they get? But aren't you looking forward to the American version of a British original -- "The Office" -- tonight? You're not?
Why not?
[Posted by Hugh on May 18, 2005]
Mr. Spencer,
A special Merry Christmas to you, the godfather of the counter-jihad.
To all JW supporters:
Merry Christmas to you! We'll hang separately if we don't hang together.
"Merry Christmas to all Christian Jihad Watchers who celebrate the Feast on this day."
I'm not a Christian but I still celebrate Christmas.
Greeting & merry Christmas, Shalom if you are Jewish, Sat Sri Kal if Sikh, Namaste if Buddhist or Hindu.
We will prevail.
AI
MP11, you cannot ruin this day with your misrepresentations. Hugh and Robert have killed, raped, stoned, lashed, humiliated, blown up or destroyed the lives of no one, not a Muslim, not anyone else who isn't subject to that scourge, nor have they advocated that for Muslims or anybody else. Nice try and Merry Christmas to you.
To all my JW buddies, God bless all here and have a Merry Christmas and an Islamic free day.
(The eggnog with the Jim Beam is ready. ; )
Merry Christmas to all!
My wish for Christmas is that in the coming year all of those "conservatives" who naively think that "rule of law" in America is all that is needed to withstand the destructive force of Islamic jihad will somehow be awakened to the fact that Islam is unique and immune from whatever "laws" or "constitutions" they might dream up. The only way to save America and Western civilization, especially if Europe is lost to Islam, is to exclude, permanently, Islam from America. If the constitution needs to be amended then so be it. It is a matter of our very survival.
Merry Christmas to all, and especially those Christians suffering, yet holding on in faith, in lands subjugated by the evil ideology of Satan on Earth, Islam.
Here 'Down Under' Christmas Day is already ending - it's well after 11 pm, and soon I'll be crawling into bed.
So: a Merry Christmas to all - especially, of course, to Mr Spencer and Marisol and Mr Fitzgerald and the rest of the jihadwatch team, but also to all the other non-Muslim regulars here whom I have come to count as friends and colleagues, whether Christian or non-Christian, even though I've never seen your faces.
And God's blessing be upon you this day and always.
Merry Christmas, everyone.
Merry Christmas, everyone @ JW.
Merry Christmas to all our readers and commenters who celebrate it.
Merry Christmas to you Mr Spencer (I know you didn't mean to exclude those of us non-believers who do celebrate Christmas on its own terms), and to all fellow posters and readers here.
I hope your Christmas can be filled the happiness and joy I feel today, as I take time out, yet again, to be thankful for many things - not only the good things that have happened to me this year, but also that I know I can walk outside, freely, wearing head covering only because it's freaking cold out.
I have my freedom back. I appreciate that freedom more than ever. I truly appreciate living in a free country now. And I intend to help preserve that freedom, for myself and my countrymates.
Peace and happiness to all this Christmas, and may the new year be better than the old for you and yours.
"MP11, you cannot ruin this day with your misrepresentations. Hugh and Robert have killed, raped, stoned, lashed, humiliated, blown up or destroyed the lives of no one, not a Muslim, not anyone else who isn't subject to that scourge, nor have they advocated that for Muslims or anybody else. Nice try and Merry Christmas to you."
First of all, a very merry christmas to you Isabella (Im hoping my taqqiya will work for a change).
But more seriously, I havent said that Robert and co. are raping or stoning anyone, only that they are advocating discrimination, mass deportation etc. against Muslims as a group.
All the best
Joyeux Noel, people. Have a wonderful day.
And Thank You RS for all that you seemingly indefatigably do.
Merry Christmas to all and may all have a very happy New Year....
I am thankful this morning. I am thankful that Christ was born 2009 years ago. I am thankful for my health, my family, and my friends, including all the Jihad Watchers. I am thankful for all the JW crew - Robert, Hugh, and Marisol. I am thankful for Pamela.
I am thankful that a growing number of people, both here in the US, in Europe, Australia, and all over the world are beginning to recognize the threat that Islam poses to our freedoms and culture, indeed to our very ability to celebrate Christmas, Hannukah, or any non-Islamic holiday. My Christmas wish is that the penny drops for our political leaders and that they also recognize the threat so that concrete action can begin to be taken against it.
Thank you everyone and I hope you all have a very merry Christmas day.
mp11:
You're a liar, and so is Charles Johnson. I have never advocated those things.
Merry Christmas.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
thank you all at JW for fine work.
thank you, trolls, for your expressions, baring your souls, so to speak.
Thank You, Immanuel, for bringing PEACE with God to the world.
May many more come to know that peace which You give.
"You're a liar, and so is Charles Johnson. I have never advocated those things.
Merry Christmas.
Cordially
Robert Spencer"
Great, then why haven't you spoken out against Mr. Wilders proposed tax on the Muslim veil or Mr. Fitzgerald's frequent calls for mass deportation of Muslims (see Benes decree) on your website as the vice-president of jwatch?
And if what you say about Islam and Muslims is true, do you feel these measures are morally unacceptable?
Merry christmas and please address my point about Central Asia when you find the time.
Best
"...only that they are advocating discrimination, mass deportation etc. against Muslims as a group."
That is a total lie. Oh, BOO-HOO! The poor Brainwashed Billion! Everybody's always victimizing them! "Whaaaaaah! You hurt my feelings!"
Actually, it's the opposite. YOU terrorize and victimize everybody else with your unholy Jihads, both mass-murdering and demographic.
"I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah." -- Mohamet (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 59).
"Allah?" Your non-existent pagan moon deity? Yeah, that'll be the day when only your moon god is worshipped! LOL - nice try, Warlord Psycho Mass-Murdering Mo, but that ain't happenin'! Oh, btw, guess you're keeping nice and warm down there in Hades, eh? lol
Oh, and shut-up with your "all the best" insincere al-taqiyya. It just makes you look like a fool. Which you are. Anyone who buys into the self-proclaimed "prophet" Warlord's fictitious moon god from Arabian mythology and the equally-fictitious "Recitation" is a fool. Mohamet - a self-proclaimed prophet with no other witnesses to his "Prophethood." Fraud. Charlatan. Flim-Flam Man. Con Artist. Etc.
Islam has a demographic advantage due to 1400 years of polygamy, child brides, and Mo's pronouncement that a woman's "job" is to "manufacture men." Barbarism unparalleled toward females - plus the Honor Murders and Stoning of females that STILL take place in islamic countries, and now in the West due to en masse Mohammedan immigration. Well, Honor Killings. However, if they could Stone over here, rest assured, they would.
Indeed, why do Mohammedan's leave their own countries? Hmmm...that's a tough one, isn't it?! But then the irony is they do not assimilate in the West where they have found better lives, but instead set up duplicate islamic cesspools in their new countries! Of course, they are also migrating Westward in order to eventually islamize the West. This must be stopped. The Swedish "No more minarets" is just the beginning of our fighting back against the Barbarians as we have had to do before in previous centuries.
The Light of Jesus will prevail. The Darkness of "allah" and Mo will be vanquished. Count on it.
Excuse me, the SWISS "No more minarets."
Hey Sweden - do the same. Start saving yourselves from the Brainwashed Barbarians and their "Jihad" doctrine in their unholy Supremacist, 100% Intolerant, 7th century AD ideology.
I have a question. I'm curious. Why don't Muslims stay in their own countries?
We're not flocking over in droves to your islamic countries.
So, what's the deal? Thanks for replying.
Well it has to do with opportunities and development, the west is obviously such a space - not just for immigrants from Muslim countries but immigrants from around the world.
Islamic countries which have achieved a certain degree of development receive their share of western immigrants such as Dubai or the many french retirees who decide to live in Morroco or Tunisia. Indonesia is another example. You have to remember that the Muslim world isnt limited to Afghanistan and post-saddam Iraq.
I think you need to realize that there are Muslims who come to the west without a plot to rape your daughters and establish a Shariah state. Its hard to imagine if you're a jwatcher but it might be true.
From the very start Islam has expanded by first immigrating in small numbers to the target society and then at some point engaging in full jihad to take over. They can hate the target society with a deep bitter hatred that you probably would not be able to comprehend if you tried, a hatred that you, as a civilized westerner would not be able to muster even for someone that killed your whole family, but at the same time immigrate there with the knowledge that eventually their presence along with the other Muslims that follow them will destroy the target society, their ultimate goal, and worth whatever frustrations or aggravations they undergo in immigrating and living there.
"From the very start Islam has expanded by first immigrating in small numbers to the target society and then at some point engaging in full jihad to take over."
You mean, like this:
"Islam must dominate, and not be dominated." -- Muhammed
Right. Gotcha. As Brigitte Gabriel says, "They Must Be Stopped."
Oh, and ThinkThrice? Kinda like this, too:
"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Qur'an should be the highest authority in America and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." - Omar Ahmad, CAIR co-Founder
I can't recall where I found this, ThinkThrice. Says it all, doesn't it?
"Political Islam has annihilated every culture it has invaded or immigrated to. The total time for annihilation takes centuries, but once Islam is ascendant it never fails. The host culture disappears and becomes extinct.
We must learn the doctrine of political Islam to survive. The doctrine is very clear that all forms of force and persuasion may and must be used to conquer us. Islam is a self-declared enemy of all unbelievers. The brilliant Chinese philosopher of war, Sun Tzu, had the dictum—know the enemy. We must know the doctrine of our enemy or be annihilated."
Muslims should not be allowed to immigrate to the West until they allow full unrestricted and unlimited rights to Christians already in those countries and to those of us in the West who would like to immigrate to Islamic countries and start huge churches and radio and television ministries. But you wouldn't allow that would you? Those Christian immigrants would be killed and their churches burned to the ground. Islam out of the West, now.
"Well it has to do with opportunities and development"
Yup, someone wrote a book about it. It's called stealth Jihad. You should read it some time.
OH yeah, and a Merry Christmas to all you freedom loving Kuffar.
"Islam out of the West, now."
Ditto. With the exception of a few who assimilate and contribute, Muslims are here to eventually take us over by Demographics. That's a no-brainer. And once they reach critical mass, which has almost happened in Western Europe, 'bye-bye to the indigenous culture. Islam reminds me of the bubonic plague of mid-14th century Europe - pestilence over-taking health.
You know how dhimmis in the media will always say "holy city" or "holy month" when referring to Islamic towns or holidays? Well just now on NPR the twit was talking about Christmas celebrations in Bethlehem and he qualified it saying the city that "Christians believe" is the birthplace of Jesus. So they don't qualify Muslim claims with "Muslim holy city" or "what Muslims believe..." but for Christians on Christmas is is merely what Christians "believe" - and we all know that no one else, no one in their right mind, also "believes" that!
ROBERT SPENCER IN ENGLISH
ROBERT SPENCER EN FRANCAIS
VIDEo SOUS-titree
http://www.avraidire.eu/2009/12/robert-spencer-demonte-lislam-sous-titres-francais-1/
"I think you need to realize that there are Muslims who come to the west without a plot to rape your daughters and establish a Shariah state. Its hard to imagine if you're a jwatcher but it might be true."
There might well be. But how many "bad eggs" does it need to make a bad omelette? If one gang rides around Northern England and "grooms" or rapes many teenage girls, they are grooming and raping those girls, and they are causing fear and insecurity for many others - even if that gang makes up only a tiny portion of the local 18-30 male Muslim population. As for the Shariah state - in a survey some time back, 40% of Muslims responded to wanting Sharia law. That's not the whole Muslim population - or even an absolute majority - but it's enough to win elections.
And thanks to Taqiyya, there are many more like-minded people who you won't have a clue are inclined that way. Until they're strong-enough not to care.
Which is not to say any of the names you mention is advocating the discrimination or forced deportation of all Muslims. In fact, one of Geert Wilders' closest allies is an Iranian ex-Muslim called Ehsan Jami. I highly doubt Wilders, or anyone on this website, would want the likes of him, or others like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie, Wafa Sultan, Rifqa Bary or any other freedom-loving person of Muslim background to be deported.
A very Merry Christmas to you.
It is really going to be heartbreaking to see the great cathedrals and museums and all the other things Hugh listed gradually destroyed either by direct action or neglect. The current residents of the West don't have the right to allow it to be destroyed, but they will nevertheless. Perhaps the West is already destroyed, by multiculturalism and modern liberal ideologies, the actual physical destruction is really a secondary result. This is too much of a downer to think about on Christmas, but that is what Islam forces upon the world, the constant thinking about evil and tragic events.
As for the thread, let's all stand together - Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, secular, atheist, agnostic, and people of Muslim background who respect us as equals - and join forces in resisting "Submission" to the Religion of Peace.
And may the likes of Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller and the many other un-chic but honest bloggers continue to shed light on facts and stories we would otherwise have no way of knowing existed!
Merry Christmas to Robert and all Jwatchers, and snoops, on this thread.
Merry Christmas to all at Jihadwatch!
"and people of Muslim background who respect us as equals"
Sorry but it just doesn't help to include them. Any Muslim who has not renounced Islam and therefore become an ex-Muslim, not a Muslim, whatever words they may say, whatever protestations they may make about respecting other religions or wanting equal rights, is meaningless since they are still part of the numbers of Muslims. In fact, by putting such a face on Islam they merely confuse infidels and delay the day when the infidels will realize that they cannot coexist with Islam collectively. The so-called "nice" Muslim, the "westernized" Muslim is every bit of dangerous to the survival of the West as the violent jihadist.
And in the New World:
the Metropolitan (both Museum and Opera)
the Cloisters
the Frick Collection
the Gardner Museum
the Barnes Foundation
the Art Institute
the Lyric Opera
the Field Museum
the Getty
the Norton Simon Collection
the New York Public Library
the Library of Congress
every Carnegie library
plus every other art museum, historical museum, library, liberal-arts college, church, and court in the country
Merry Christmas to everyone at JW, especially to Robert, a true prophet of our time!
Joyeux Noel
Nadolig Llawen
Fröhliche Weihnachten
Buon Natale
Feliz Navidad
Glaedelig Jul
Vrolijk Kerstfeest
Etc. etc...
"Merry Christmas to all Christian Jihad Watchers who celebrate the Feast on this day."
Thank you, Robert! ..and Merry Christmas to you and yours!
Merry Christmas, everyone :)
"As for the Shariah state - in a survey some time back, 40% of Muslims responded to wanting Sharia law."
And what percentage was clever enough not to respond in an incriminating way?
First of all, although I don't celebrate Christmas, I wish all JihadWatchers who do "Merry Christmas" and everybody Hashem's blessing, even morons like mp11. May G*d enligthen you to find the path of truth and knowledge.
I'm wondering why shouldn't Geert Wilders propose a tax on Muslim veils. I can't see anything wrong in that. Unlike Islam we've got a great culture and we're entitled to defend it. So does Geert Wilders, he's a great freedom fighter. For the token of women's oppression there is no place in our society, we are civilised.
As for some Westerners working in Saudi Arabia or the gulf states, they're doing it for money. And you need them and the Indians and all the other intelligent people to do skilled work. Mohammedans never achieved anything in science, technology and literature. You're rich, because you collected a lot of petro-dollars, but mentally you're still camel drivers, like your self-appointed prophet.
A heartfelt Merry Christmas to you Robert, the only one here who doesn't hide under the cloak of anonymity. If we all had your courage, it would be a different world.
"And thanks to Taqiyya, there are many more like-minded people who you won't have a clue are inclined that way. Until they're strong-enough not to care.
Which is not to say any of the names you mention is advocating the discrimination or forced deportation of all Muslims. In fact, one of Geert Wilders' closest allies is an Iranian ex-Muslim called Ehsan Jami. I highly doubt Wilders, or anyone on this website, would want the likes of him, or others like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie, Wafa Sultan, Rifqa Bary or any other freedom-loving person of Muslim background to be deported."
Thats because they are ex-muslims, I was talking about Muslims.
"Sorry but it just doesn't help to include them. Any Muslim who has not renounced Islam and therefore become an ex-Muslim, not a Muslim, whatever words they may say, whatever protestations they may make about respecting other religions or wanting equal rights, is meaningless since they are still part of the numbers of Muslims. In fact, by putting such a face on Islam they merely confuse infidels and delay the day when the infidels will realize that they cannot coexist with Islam collectively. The so-called "nice" Muslim, the "westernized" Muslim is every bit of dangerous to the survival of the West as the violent jihadist."
This is indeed the logical conclusion to reach after one has spent enough time on jwatch.
And in that survey, 19% were dont knows. And in my book, anyone who doesn't know if they want Sharia law or not counts as a definite "Yes" - so make that an absolute minimum of 59% who want Sharia law, and you can bet that figure will be much higher still.
"And what percentage was clever enough not to respond in an incriminating way? "
40% didnt want to use taqqiya for some incomprehensible reason while the other 60% felt like using it.
Since Muslims are ordered to lie to infidels we can never know can we? This is why its so completely useless to discuss polls on jwatch since any Muslim who doesnt support extremism is automatically accused of taqqiya.
Don't miss www.thereligionofpeace.com, while JihadWatch performs a most valuable service to mankind, thereligionofpeace educates from other angles including the most informative listing of jihad attacks since 9/11, nearly 15 THOUSAND at this point.
"completely useless to discuss polls on jwatch since any Muslim who doesnt support extremism is automatically accused of taqqiya."
More concretely, it is why Islam is a failed ideology. Since it does authorize followers to lie one can NEVER KNOW if they are lying in any given circumstance. That destroys the ability to deal with others in a normal societal way, making contracting business and engaging in other forms of human interaction nearly impossible. This is why societies with large numbers of Muslims are in total disarray. In normal societies even if someone is a liar they "know" that lying is wrong. That limits it enough to allow the society to function. Islam, destroyer of civilizations.
"our petition
against genocide in Uganda. Praying for you much prosperity and strength of spirit now at Christmas and throughout the new year, Greek Orthodox Constantinopolitans knowing dhimmitude first-hand through mental trauma, physical torture and death, but never by spiritual distress of the soul."
An old ex-friend of mine is a Greek Orthodox missionary in Uganda, and regrettably he is an absolute idiot about Islam: he thinks there is no dangerous problem of Islam.
So if they're ex-Muslims, then once-upon-a-time, they must have been Muslims, right? So, would Wilders, Spencer and Hugh want these people, and their future equivalents to be forcibly-deported while they are still Muslims? I don't believe I've ever read anything of the sort.
I have, however, read lots at Jihadwatch about supposedly-moderate Muslims being exposed. And heard similar from family and friends bout, for example, very friendly Arabs, with a photo of bin Laden dropping out onto the seat of their parked car. Does that mean that all Muslims are Taqiyya-artists? Of course not.
But if they nicely claim something which just happens to conveniently fit-in with what they're trying to prove, but with just their smile, trust and "friendliness" as arguments for why they're right, it might just be the "do not take nonbelievers for friends" part of their religion at work.
"I havent said that Robert and co. are raping or stoning anyone, only that they are advocating discrimination, mass deportation etc. against Muslims as a group." -- mp11
From your lips to Allah's ear! Would that it were only so!
A couple of points of information to help people understand what they are seeing.
In Orthodox iconography, any time a mountain is depicted, it is a symbol of an epiphany, an unveiling or manifestation of deity.
The hairy cloaked man talking to Joseph in the lower left corner is the devil, trying to tempt Joseph to leave Mary. The halo around Christ is distinct, though its hard to see here. It has the three Greek letters, omicron, omega and ni, taken from the Greek Ho Ohn, meaning "I am." Only images of Christ have this, indicating that Christ is the God of the OT who gave the law to Moses.
The Manger is in a cave, which combines the two gospel accounts where Jesus is born in a manger and also a cave. The manger was probably built into the side of a hill from a house next to a hill.
A Merry Christ's Mass to all!
"In Orthodox iconography, any time a mountain is depicted, it is a symbol of an epiphany, an unveiling or manifestation of deity."
If Mohammad can't go to the mountain, let the mountain come to Mohammad.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/32/messages/362.html
"If one cannot get one's own way, one must adjust to the inevitable. The legend goes that when the founder of Islam was asked to give proofs of his teaching, he ordered Mount Safa to come to him. When the mountain did not comply, Mohammed raised his hands toward heaven and said, 'God is merciful. Had it obeyed my words, it would have fallen on us to our destruction. I will therefore go to the mountain and thank God that he has had mercy on a stiff-necked generation.'
Merry Christmas Robert and Marisol! I am truly grateful for all you do :)
Merry Christmas to my JW buddies....Undaunted, Champ, QE, KafirKanuck, KrazyKafir, Eastview, Hesperado, DDA, DS and so many more of you regular posters. I learn from you every day.
I'm grateful to have found a forum with such wonderful like-minded people :)
Celebrate Jesus' birth, enjoy your Christmas meal!!
Be more grateful every day that you are right where God wants you to be.
"From your lips to Allah's ear! Would that it were only so!"
Simple, google Hugh Fitzgerald and Benes.
To the dishonest one commenting here and your obfuscating, Geert Wilders does not propose mass deportation. What he said is quite different, as follows:
"I have a clear message to all Muslims in our societies: If you subscribe to our laws, our values and our constitutions you are very welcome to stay and we will help you to assimilate. But, if you cross the red line and commit violent crimes or the implementation of shariah law and start practicing jihad, you are not welcome anymore, then we will expel you if possible the same day."
You make a great point in your opening statement: "From the very start Islam has expanded by first immigrating in small numbers to the target society and then at some point engaging in full jihad to take over."
There is a popular myth that Islam spread peacefully in Southeast Asia by Muslim merchant traders traveling there, establishing trading colonies, and "spreading the word of Islam." M.A Khan (Editor, Islam-Watch.org) recently published (2009) the book, "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery" that expands on that narrative. Khan is an ex-Muslim apostate who has researched multitudes of original source documents to reveal the truth about the Islamic conquest of India and SE Asia.
Yes, Muslim merchants did first establish peaceful trading colonies, but once the Muslim population reached sufficient numbers, they turned on the native populations and waged classic, brutal, bloody jihad to force them to submit. I highly recommend the book.
Finally, a quote from Robert's initial post that resonates with me: "Let us stand together as Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, secularists, what have you, and stand up against those who would kill us or subject us to institutionalized discrimination because they find our beliefs offensive."
As an Agnostic, I will say a hearty "amen" and wish everyone a Merry Christmas.
Never Submit, T.H.
Merry Christmas to so many of those who are regular posters at Jihad Watch, a site for informing the world at large about all the dangers, repressions, violence and intolerance that reside in the Islamic faith. Though not religious, I find Christianity to be an almost infinitely superior religion in every way compared to Islam. There is nothing in Islam which is better than what is found in Christianity. Nothing. Any good that still resides in Islam can be found elsewhere and yet there is much evil in Islam that can be found in few other ideologies. Islam is dispensable. Christianity is not. Merry Christmas to all, especially to Robert Spencer, a brave soul and a great American.
Today I did see in Google’s first page some faceless cards having some snowmen, space rockets and peace emblems and saying a lifeless ‘good holidays’… Totally spiritless… A Christmas empty of its content, without Christ. We, the Westerners, are the ones who initiated the most destructive treachery against our very selves. Jesus was too checking for our narcissism, we ostracized him… so now we will have to face Muhammad’s sword. You reap what you sow. Accepting others does not mean loosing your own identity. Accepting others means having an identity of your own and be able to co-exist with others’ different identities, means to live in diversity. Does not mean just surviving biologically in a faceless pulp as is the so nihilistic leftist, politically correct blindness, presented as a respect requiring, sane social vision. Loosing personality and identity constitutes a slip to totalitarian directions, beyond doubt. Slip’s taking place quietly and slyly does not change the fact. It just makes it more poisonous.
Those days I did read somewhere the words of a well known liberal, former leftist, atheist somehow, Turkish intellectual. If I had to choose a religion, he said, I would be a Christian or, at least, choose to walk a way from those Far Eastern ones. It is not a matter of some metaphysical quest, it is a matter of finding a sane, viable, humane way to live life, he said, I did read John’s gospel and did find a so deep humanism in it… And, reading this, it came to my mind that we, in the West, we spitted, in a paranoia of arrogance, to the face of this so conscience freedom respecting, sane and peaceful life view proposition, even if seen from a totally social, non spiritual, perspective. It is a shocking ungratefulness, an open blasphemy, a crime, really. And, now, we have to pay for this blasphemy as it seems. We have to search first in ourselves, for our own sin, indeed. We have to question very seriously why we came to a point where it is considered a shame to say openly that you are a Christian. A faceless society without any identity of its own is like a feeble body, without resistance to any disease invasion. So are, unfortunately, nowadays our Western societies and because of this they have reached a point to experience so dreadful conditions.
Happy Christmas all, anyway… may God have pity on us with this so difficult situation we got ourselves… May He help Muslims too because they are brothers and sisters to us, as human beings… and unfortunately they are sinking, because of their deeply rooted delusions, day after day in a position that will get them in a very grave situation in some years, as it seems.
Merry Christmas mp11
Merry Christmas !!
Thank you ~ for a great Blog !!
A very merry Christmas to RS, the JW crew and all the excellent resistance thinkers and posters at JW.
All the best.
I"m a bit late but Christmas blessings on all of us here, believers and non believers alike -- because we all share the same love of freedom and of life itself --
mp11 -
"... only that they are advocating discrimination, mass deportation etc. against Muslims as a group."
Defend your slander with evidence demonstrating this. YOu can't, because you're a flat-out liar.
Goodbye.
Robert,
Thank you for this picture and the explanation of the images.
Merry Christmas to you and everyone at JW. God's blessings continue to be upon you all.
Thank you for fighting the good fight. We will prevail!
Merry Christmas! Robert, Marisol, and Hugh.
Merry Christmas JW commenters:
DDA
Thanks for all your great posts. I’m just not going to find things like this http://www.brokenhill.nsw.gov.au/about/1002/4058.html anywhere else.
Wellington you are a good guy. You are always here like a pro.
Hesperado thinks well, writes well, and has a great blog.
Undaunted thanks for the Krav Magra take down - love it!
Gravenimage I appreciate your thoughtful, well manicured comments. More drawings!
SaleemSmith looking forward to more of your writing.
Champ thanks for the tip about “Taking Chance”. Have you seen Ratatouille? It is excellent.
BigPete you had the last word on the minaret thing. Good find. I like your work.
Merry Christmas to long time commentor Duh Swami.
Merry Christmas to Sheik yer’mami http://sheikyermami.com/new-album-out-soon/
Merry Christmas QuestionEverything, the hard working SpiritWolf,, Enragedsince1999, CHOI, IndianTiger, Plotino, Darcy you are the new jdamn, Kuffar a great find.
Merry Christmas Fjordman.
I have only been participating at JihadWatch since the Mumbai attacks, but it feels longer than that.
It was this year I learned the story of Muhammad, and the history of the Koran. I read Ibn Warraq only this year.
I have learned so many things by, as DDA puts it “comparing notes” here at Jihad Watch.
Jihad Watch has been a learning experience, and a super gift.
Thank you.
Merry Christmas
Bahhhh, Humbug. Why are you all here chattering and wasting time when you could be turning yourselves toward some sort of useful profit, ehh? I'll bet a gold sovereign Bob Crachit is on here somewhere, when he should be doing my books! Always whining about Tiny Tim! Bah.
mp11, where in Central Asia? The nations of Central Asia, as far as I can tell from a cursory survey, have terrible human rights records.
mp11, though not all Muslims want Sharia, it seems that many do. The percentage is disputed, and it would be extremely useful if one could more or less nail down real percentages.
But regardless of percentages, there are two problems that make Islam a grave concern: 1) the human rights situation in the Islamic nations varies from horrific to rather bad, particularly for non-Muslims. That has been documented by many human rights groups; 2) even if only 20% of Muslims want to live under Islamic law -- and I think the number is something more like half -- the Islamic law lovers have Islam's core texts on their side; 3) Islamic populations bring with them a violent vanguard that finds much justification in core Islamic texts. This violent vanguard casts a chill on public free speech, and intimidates the media, the academy, artists, women, non-Muslims, and homosexuals, and anyone who gets in the way of Islam. If only 1% of Muslims want to actually participate in jihad terrorism -- and polls have indicated 1% are interested in direct participation -- that means in a population of one million Muslims, there are some 10,000 would-be militant jihadists. Another 5% to 10% of Muslims back the jihadists morally or otherwise. Perhaps 40% to 60% of Muslims want to live under Islamic law, but do not support violent jihad to get there. All these numbers in support of non-democratic society are huge numbers. 1% for direct participation in terror is no tiny minority.
Given the horrific human rights situation in the Islamic world (let's not forget the OIC's Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam, which puts Islamic law above real human rights and was signed by 45 Islamic nations), and given press reports of murders and death threats against intellectuals, politicians, artists, feminists and others who criticize Islam, and given the nearly 15,000 deadly attacks committed around the globe since after 9/11/01 in the name of Islam, and collected from the world press at the site www.religionofpeace.com, why are you here trying to argue with Robert Spencer? Why are you not doing something publicly to reform Islam?
In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical of hadith collections, Muhammad said, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."
In the same hadith collection, Muhammad said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."
In other words, if you are not a Muslim, Muhammad says your blood and property will not be safe from Muslims.
mp11, why are you more concerned about Robert Spencer pointing this out, than you are about the fact that it's there in the core Islamic texts?
Yes, it is all the infidel's fault. I do not see blown up mosques and churches in the United States. Are you too much of a coward to go after the people who actually do such things? No, you do not. Hurt feelings do not equal slashed throats my friend.
As I'm sure you are, Worry01, and a multitude of others who post here at Jihad Watch, I am heartily sick of the half dozen or so apologists at JW who regularly try to exculpate the spiritual totalitarianism which is Islam. Whether it be moral equivalency thinking, actually faulting the West more than the Islamic world, a mindless, suicidal pacifism, outright distortion of the historical record or some other pseudo-logical enabling of evil, it's repugnant to see the continued attempt by these enablers to somehow whitewash Islam, a creed which is replete with freedom-crushing, mind-closing elements. It is, however, instructive of how any evil, no matter how terrible, will invariably finds its apologists. Islam has been finding them for going on a millennium and half now.
On a happier note, may I wish you and yours a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. One should never overlook the good in the world while combatting evil. Take care.
mp11,
I've read the Benes decree(s) article by Hugh (as well as his many long statements about that subject over a long period of time before he wrote that formal article), and I even wrote about it on my blog. I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree, as I can sum up that particular "evidence" in four words: "Close but no cigar." But I suspect you, like Islam apologists usually are, are pathologically hypersensitive, and you doubtlessly still think that Muslims are an inordinate target of "hate crimes" throughout the West.
To quote the inimitable Wellington, "On a happier note, may I wish you and yours a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. One should never overlook the good in the world while combating evil. Take care."
So I wish all "pious, observant Muslims" like Nidal Hasan an
"as-salami-alaikum". Look up the ingredients of "salami."
Never Submit, T.H.
Does everyone know the True Meaning of the Twelve Days of Christmas? It wasn't just about the "five gold rings and four calling doves. There is much more significance to the song.
Each element in the carol is a code word for a religious reality.
1.The partridge in a pear tree is Jesus Christ.
2.The two turtle doves are the Old and New Testaments.
3.Three French hens stand for faith, hope and love.
4.The four calling birds are the four Gospels.
5.The five gold rings recall the torah (Law) the first
five books of the Old Testament.
6.The six geese a-laying stand for the six days of
creation.
7.Seven swans a-swimming represent the sevenfold gifts
of the Spirit.
8.The eight maids a-milking are the eight beatitudes
9.Nine ladies dancing are the nine fruits of the spirit
(Gal.5).
10.The ten lords a-leaping are the Ten Commandments.
11.Eleven pipers piping stand for the eleven faithful
disciples.
12.Twelve drummers drumming symbolize the 12 points of
belief in the Apostles Creed.
I thank the Almighty for allowing me to be born into a Christian family and in such a richly diverse country where we can live our daily lives in freedom.
We must cherish and protect this freedom at all costs.
Merry Christmas to everyone of all faiths and peace on earth and good will towards humankind.
Thanks, Gymgal! ...Merry Christmas to you, too! ..and have a blessed New Year :)
"Champ thanks for the tip about “Taking Chance”. Have you seen Ratatouille? It is excellent."
You're welcome, Livingengine! ...and my husband wants to take to a movie for my birthday, so I definitely want him to take me to see Disney's Ratatouille ...thank you for suggesting it :)
"10.The ten lords a-leaping are the Ten Commandments."
Sounds downright fun!
Mo -
seconding your appreciation of Mr Spencer's posting the icon - by doing so, he sent a lovely Christmas card to all the regular posters and lurkers here.
Over at the New English Review, Esmerelda Weatherwax posted a link to a marvellous piece of pub art which treats the same subject in a reverent yet homely manner that also, in a very different manner, expresses the Divine humility of 'God-with-us'.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1238118/Artist-opens-door-Christmas-past-extraordinarily-realistic-Nativity-mural-painted-pub-wall.html
A Merry Christmas to Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald, Marisol Seibold, and all the members of the JihadWatch board.
A Merry Christmas to Dumbledore's Army, Wellington, Eastview, Cornelius, Living Engine, Ebonystone, Bosch Fawstin, Duh Swami, Treah, Tanstaafl, Isabella the Crusader, Darcy, Hesperado, Josephine, Susan P., Champ, Epistemology, Mrs. J, Lorfalcon, Spirit of 1683, Ethoman, Gymgal, Spirit Wolf, Pulsar, Boakai Ngombu, Krazy Kafir, Kafir Kanuck, Joe Blough, Jewcat, American Delight, Worry01, Mo, and all the other wonderful posters here at JW, whose comments add so much.
Merry Christmas to you as well, Gravenimage! :)
Hey, you said he advocated those things, and now you slip into saying why he does not denounce specific people. You are being slippery now.
I wish you all of the best as well. Decent arguments are welcome, but the robotic trolling and spamming are becoming a bit much. Do keep posting.
My dear MP11: You may very well have good intentions but you are out numbered here. You are not out numbered by people, you are out numbered by facts with which you cannot win the argument. In a court of law you are found guilty by a preponderence of evidence and not always beyond a shadow of a doubt. In this case it is beyond a shadow of a doubt. It has taken decades for us infadels to start studying islam
and the provebial cat is out of the bag. I wish you and yours the best, I really do. But your continued attempts to argue this point speaks volumes about what is deep inside you. No JW reader is responsible for putting that inside you which has always been there. MPBUY.
Merry Christmas; well written, thanks Mr.R.S.
I was not "on the list" but chose to be "on the list" so that
I can put islam "on my list" and only "Time" will tell as to
who prevailed.
Merry Christams, Glaeding Jul, Frohliche Weinacht, Joyeux Noel, Feliz Navidad, and Sheng Dan Kuaile to all and sundry here, albeit a day late--and from a Christian who doesn't make a big to-do about Christmas!
Thanks much for your post, RObert Spencer--and, Al-Kidya, I never heard the Twelve Days of Christmas so explained.
But, since we have people here confessing that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us", I try to read through the entire Bible once per year, so not too long ago, I read Revelation:
[the words of the risen Jesus] Fear not, I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth and was dead; and behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and death.
(Rev. 1:18, KJV).
Yes, let us all thank God that we may openly witness to these great truths and the boundless saving grace of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
Amen, Kepha! :)
The Byzantine icon above is the work of the 16th-century iconographer Theophanes the Cretan. There are many things that are un-Islamic about it:
.......................
Excellent art historical analysis, Robert. There is at least one other bit of un-Islamic symbolism that comes to mind:
6. the manger is here depicted in a cave—a common motif in both Orthodox and Western Christian iconography. like the casket-shaped cradle, this is meant to remind the viewer of the other time Christ is laid in a cave—his tomb after his crucifiction.
This refers both to Christ's death on the cross—denied by Muslims—and even more un-Islamic, to his resurrection on the third day, when the stone is rolled away from the cave's entrance.
Even more than Christ's death, the concept of his resurrection—perhaps the central issue for Christians-is entirely denied by Muslims. This would not be an issue if they were not so willing to kill and persecute Christians for having the temerity to hold these beliefs.
God bless you, Mr. Spencer, and all your brave colleagues, Mr. Fitzgerald, sheik yer'mami, Ms Geller, Ms Gabriel, Mr Horowitz, Mr. Wilders, Mr. Marisol, gandalf, Mr. Trento, Mr. Petrulla, Mr. Steyn, Mr. Levant... the list is endless, and all the most erudite and freedom-loving posters here on JW.