OPINIONS

Divestment doesn’t foster discrimination — Hillel and the ADL do

Recent unsubstantiated allegations by a candidate for Undergraduate Senate against the Students of Color Coalition (SOCC) have caused a media storm. Despite a lack of concrete evidence from the candidate and a complete rebuttal from SOCC, her claims that SOCC questioned her about her Jewish faith in relation to her position on divestment from the Occupation of Palestine (she opposes it) have garnered international media attention. SOCC has refuted these claims, saying that they asked all SOCC candidates the same standard question about divestment. However, the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has further alleged that the incident was a result of the campus-wide debate over divestment itself.

The subtext is clear: We cannot discuss divestment from the Occupation of Palestine on campus without eventual accusations of anti-Semitism, whether that discussion is in an endorsement interview, in a dormitory or in the Undergraduate Senate. As Jews supportive of divestment, we challenge the notion that the discussion of divestment is inherently anti-Semitic or necessarily leads to anti-Semitic acts. It is the silencing of open discussion on Israel/Palestine within and outside of the Jewish community by mainstream Israel advocacy organizations such as Hillel and the ADL, as well as by individual students, that is truly discriminatory.

Stanford is not the first campus to face ADL allegations that efforts to divest from the Occupation of Palestine are anti-Semitic or cause a “hostile campus climate” that fosters anti-Semitism. At UC Davis earlier this year, swastikas were painted on a Jewish fraternity a few days after a divestment resolution passed in the student senate, and the ADL was quick to infer a connection without an iota of evidence. And similarly, when a Jewish UCLA student was inappropriately questioned about her Jewish faith, the ADL took it upon themselves to make a connection between the divestment resolution that passed at UCLA last November and this completely unrelated incident. The ADL is seemingly unable to separate criticism of Israel, a nation-state, from hatred of Jews. As Jews who heartily criticize Israel, we reject this false equivalency.

Hillel is supposed to be an organization for all Jewish college students, but in fact in recent years many campus Hillels have become organizations for Jewish college students who are opposed to divestment. In fact, Hillel International publishes “Hillel Guidelines for Campus Israel Activities” to prohibit any speakers who hold supportive views of divestment from speaking at campus Hillels. There is little to no support for Jewish students at Stanford Hillel who may be supportive of divestment; the director of Stanford Hillel regularly sends out emails to students, alumni, and “Friends of Hillel” assuming uniform opposition to divestment. Hillel International CEO Eric Fingerhut recently refused to speak at a conference because the head Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, was also speaking. It is clear that a primary goal of Israel advocacy institutions on college campuses is to silence and erase Jewish and non-Jewish voices that support divestment.

That erasure is evident when the head of Stanford Israel Alliance states in The Daily that she is “speaking on behalf of the majority of Israeli and Jewish students” in opposing divestment. It is evident when Hillel International threatens to sue Swarthmore Open Hillel for putting on an event featuring leftist civil rights veterans, because some of those veterans have dissident views on Israel/Palestine. And it is evident when Hillel and the ADL jump to a senate candidate’s defense over unsubstantiated allegations while Hillel bans speakers supportive of divestment and makes Jewish students supportive of divestment feel unwelcome.

Discussing divestment is not anti-Semitic, no matter what the ADL would have you believe. Advocating for the fundamental human rights of Palestinians should not be seen as a problem on Stanford’s campus, or on any campus. But the intolerance perpetuated by individuals and institutions alike against all students, Jews and non-Jews alike, who support divestment is a problem. These institutions need to start rethinking their policies and their purposes if they don’t want to alienate the new generation of thinkers and activists and find themselves on the wrong side of history.

Emma Hartung ‘17
Melanie Malinas, Biophysics PhD student

Contact Emma Hartung at ehartung ‘at’ stanford.edu and Melanie Malinas at mmalinas ‘at’ stanford.edu.

  • freespeechlover

    You’re falling for the trap. They make demands in the form of questions. You are then forced to answer false questions, debate diversions and nonsense. They don’t want to dialogue. They want to charge you with anti-Semitism for defending Israeli policies. They don’t care about anti-Semitism. They care about not permitting you or anyone who disagrees with their opinions to have a voice on campus. They’re bullies. You can try to reason with them, but most bullies cannot be reasoned with; you can only stand up to them, and the best way to do that is for the students of color to get a lawyer and charge them with libel.

  • freespeechlover

    Oh the Gatestone Institute. Now there’s an objective think tank. LMAO.

  • rab

    Somehow I missed this response. I don’t have time to respond to all 26, but I thought I’d explore some of them.

    Let’s start with #1. The claim is that Israeli soldiers were eating “crisps” and then just for the heck of it cut a family down, killing two girls. Apparently that isn’t what happened at all. Here’s what we know thanks to Palestinian sources:

    Statement of Khaled Muhammad Abd Rabbo

    Khaled Abd Rabbo reported on the deaths of two of his children on January 7, 2009.25 Khaled lives in Jabaliya near the Israeli border in a four-story house. He and his family did not leave it even when the land battles began. He claimed he saw no activity of armed Palestinians in the area. He said that on January 7 an IDF force entered the area around his house and positioned tanks nearby. The soldiers used a megaphone to call the residents out of the house. They came out holding a white flag, and one of the soldiers got out of a tank and shot at his children for no reason. He said two of his daughters were killed, another was seriously wounded, and his wife was also wounded.

    Contrary to the claims made by Khaled Abd Rabbo, Palestinian sources reported on armed Palestinian activity in the area near the incident and on exchanges of fire between Palestinians and IDF forces. At the time Khaled claimed his daughters were shot by IDF soldiers, four other Palestinians were killed nearby: Ibrahim Abd al-Rahim Suleiman, 19, an Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades operative; Shadi
    Issam Hamad, 33, a Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine
    (George Habash) operative; Muhammad Ali al-Sultan, 55, an Izz al-Din
    al-Qassam Brigades operative; and Ahmad Adib Faraj Juneid, 26, an Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades operative.26

    The circumstances of Ahmed Juneid’s death shed light on the event: Ahmed Juneid joined Hamas in 2003 and later joined the Muslim Brotherhood and also became an Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades operative. He was posted to the front-line positions in Jabaliya, joined the Brigades’ sabotage and suicide bomber unit, and participated in ambushes and fighting with IDF forces. According to the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades website, Ahmed Juneid was another one of its operatives who, after the IDF attack on December 27, 2008, was ordered to take up a position at the front according to previous instructions. According to the website report, on January 7 he participated in an ambush of IDF soldiers in one of the houses in the eastern part of Jabaliya along with other Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades operatives. The Hamas squad was identified by the IDF and an exchange of fire ensued. The IDF force was forced to withdraw and armed vehicles were brought in, forcing Juneid to leave the house he was in and go elsewhere. A surveillance plane located him and fired a rocket, killing him.27

    The Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades report reveals information about the exchange of fire between the IDF and armed Palestinians in the area where Khaled Abu Rabbo’s daughters were killed, and its closeness in time to the events he reported. His version and the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades website provided similar descriptions of the advance of IDF armored vehicles into the area at the same time. However, Khaled Abu Rabbo did not tell the UN commission about the
    exchanges of fire between IDF forces and Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades operatives. The possibility cannot be ruled out that his children were caught in the crossfire and may have been killed by Palestinians.

    http://jcpa.org/article/blocking-the-truth-of-the-gaza-war/

  • Rahim Moosa

    Hello Rab:

    No problem. Let me read your response and I’ll get back to you. Thanks for looking into it.

  • Rahim Moosa

    Hello Rab:

    Thanks for the reference. I read the paragraph from this site:

    http://jcpa.org/article/blocking-the-truth-of-the-gaza-war/

    which you provided (Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, article by Jonathan D. Halevi (Lt. Col. Retired). He basically infers that there was fighting between IDF and Palestinians at the (exact same) time and that the children were caught in the cross-fire.

    Well, we clearly have a discrepancy between what the father and grand-mother say and what Lt. Col. Halevi infers from field reports. The grand-mother said (in a separate BBC TV segment in a hospital) that the soldier shot at us “slowly slowly”. The father, in a separate interview (recall that he did not even know that the BBC was looking for him and was found by luck) says that a soldier came out of a tank (on which soldiers were eating chocolates and crisps) and shot at the children. It is really the family account versus the inference of Lt. Col. Halevi from field reports. Can Lt. Col Halevi assure us that this incident happened at the same time and location as the engagement between the IDF and Palestinians.

    What do you think? Isn’t it true that many Israelis think that Palestinian children are future terrorists and so it is OK to kill them? Didn’t an IDF soldier beat up on a Palestinian American?

    Also, are you willing and do you have the time and inclination to go thru the other examples in the list?

    I’ll tell you what my bottom line is. I think Abbas has shown himself to be a man of peace. The PA is cooperating in a serious way with the IDF. But the Israeli side does not want to discuss border issues to start with. Furthermore they continually make Abbas and the US look like fools by not freezing settlements during the talks. Why? Because Netanyahu really will not give up the West Bank on his watch. So, what option is left to the Palestinians? BDS and going to the UN. Now about Hamas. I am no fan of Hamas. They are killers and idiots to boot. If I were Abbas I would tell them to change their charter. But aren’t there extremist parties in Israel (Beitenu, e.g.) that have made genocidal statements w.r.t. Gaza. Hamas has said that it would join a govt. that recognized Israel (though itself, it wouldn’t).
    It seems to me that security arrangements can be worked out for the Jordan valley as well as to treat an eventuality such as Hamas coming to power.

    It’s really a tough problem Rab.

  • rab

    Let’s take #3 (can’t find information on 2) since this is a famous case because this doctor is such a good man and his tragedy is horrific. This story was on Israeli TV in real time and so the investigation was publicized. While this is a significant and unfortunate tragedy, it most certainly isn’t an example of Israel targeting civilians.

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Tank-shells-killed-doctors-daughters

    “The IDF said that a Golani Brigade force was operating near Beit Lahiya
    when it came under sniper and mortar fire in an area laden with
    explosives. After determining that the source of the fire was in a
    building adjacent to Abuelaish’s home, the force returned fire.

    While the IDF was shooting, suspicious figures were identified in the
    top floors of the doctor’s house, and the troops believed the figures
    were directing the Hamas sniper and mortar fire, the army said.

    Upon assessing the situation in the field while under heavy fire, the
    commander of the force gave the order to open fire on the suspicious
    figures, and it was from this fire that his three daughters were killed,
    said the IDF.

    Once the soldiers realized that civilians, and not Hamas gunmen, were in
    the house they ceased fire immediately, continued the army.”

    And more:

    “The IDF Spokesman’s Unit stressed that in the days prior to the
    incident, Abuelaish – who had worked before at Beersheba’s Soroka
    University Medical Center and had very good connections with Israelis –
    was contacted personally several times by officers in the Gaza
    Coordination and Liaison Administration to urge him to evacuate his home
    because of Hamas operations and the intense fighting that was already
    taking place in that area for several days.”

    And

    “In addition to the personal contact made directly with the doctor, the
    IDF issued warnings to the residents of Sajaiya by dropping thousands of
    leaflets and by issuing warnings via Palestinian media outlets.”

  • rab

    5. First of all, you should never use Silverstein as a source. He’s an idiot. Be that as it may, I’m familiar with this story as well. It turns out that none of the young men reporting this were actually there. It caused a huge storm in Israel and was investigated.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/30/israeli-army-gaza-shooting-accounts-from-hearsay/

    The military prosecutor investigated and dropped the investigation, pointing out that there was no evidence at all. It seems the main story-teller had “clarified in the investigation that he did not witness it.”

    By the way, the very director of the school that initially leaked this story to the press, subsequently castigated Israeli and foreign media for attacking the moral IDF. Here you go:

    Operation
    Cast Lead was completely justified, isolated acts of vandalism do not
    make the IDF an army of war criminals, and religious graduates of the
    military preparatory programs add to the morality of the IDF…

    “From
    an internal discussion where soldiers talked about what was difficult
    and painful in the war, and which I took to the army because I expected
    them to deal with the issues raised, the international media turned the
    IDF into war criminals.”

    “It was as if the media were altogether
    so eager to find reason to criticize the IDF that they pounced on one
    discussion by nine soldiers who met after returning from the battlefield
    to share their experiences and subjective feelings with each other,
    using that one episode to draw conclusions that felt more like an
    indictment… ”

    “Dogma replaced balance and led to a dangerous
    misunderstanding of the depth and complexity of Israeli reality. The
    individual accounts were never intended to serve as a basis for broad
    generalizations and summary conclusions by the media; they were
    published internally, intended for program graduates and their parents
    as a tool to be used in the process of educating and guiding the next
    generation…”

    “THE GUIDING principle that directs IDF combat
    soldiers, both in their planning and conduct in combat, encompasses a
    balance between two needs: to defend soldiers’ lives and to minimize
    harm to the civilians behind whom terrorists try to hide…

    “These guidelines [see The Ethical Code of the IDF
    – a.i. ] and the obligation to uphold them are an inseparable part of
    the Jewish-Zionist world of IDF soldiers, and deeply anchored in
    generations of Jewish heritage, particularly in the doctrine of military
    conduct renewed by the early socialist-Zionists a century ago. They
    called this principle by a name that’s unlikely to have been given by
    any other nationalist movement fighting for its independence: “Purity of
    Arms” – that is, preventing harm to those not involved in or supporting
    the combat.

    “This moral commandment remains a central motto of
    the IDF; it is the complete opposite of the code of conduct of Islamist
    terror organizations such as Hamas, whose judgment on every Israeli and
    Jew is death. “Purity of arms” is not part of their world, not even in
    theory.

    “The outsider may not understand this, but we – the Jews of the State of Israel – live this every day, every hour.

    “In
    order to appreciate this moral code, one must note the context in which
    it operates. The State of Israel is under a prolonged attack by the
    Hamas movement – a fundamentalist Islamic terror movement, based on a
    racist and ultra-nationalist ideology that seeks the killing of Jews for
    being Jews and the actual elimination of the State of Israel as its
    declared aspiration, and formally part of its foundation platform. And
    bear in mind that Hamas is not a marginal extremist underground, but a
    movement freely chosen by the Palestinians to head their elected
    government.

    “Our war against an unrestrained terror organization
    that uses civilian populations as human shields in various ways, such as
    hospitals and masquerading as women and children, presents the IDF – an
    army obligated to an ethical code of combat based on humanism and
    international law – with almost impossible complexities. The nature of
    combat in complex conditions (such as in Gaza) brings with it
    difficulties and failures. The greatness of an army fighting under such
    conditions lies in its aspiring to “zero errors” and in its openness to
    examining its failures – finding them and fixing them.

  • rab

    The analysis I provided relied on Palestinian sources that reported there were indeed Palestinian militants operating there and who were killed. So, both Israeli and Palestinian sources agree that civilians were not targeted here. What some media like to make of it afterward is a different problem. If there were four fighters killed in this incident, clearly there was a real fight going on and civilian deaths were caused – and we don’t know by which side, since now that we know Palestinians were fighting Israelis we may also surmise it could have been an accidental shooting by Palestinians of Palestinians. This happens a lot. Amnesty Int’l, an organization that is no friend of Israel (or of Jews, for that matter, having just voted down a resolution to do a report about global antisemitism) recently reported about a case of 19 Palestinian deaths blamed on Israel but which were actually caused by Hamas rockets.

  • rab

    #6. Pallywood. Bad Pallywood. Seriously, if this guy was shot, I’m a horse’s patootie. It’s ISM and their shenanigans. Take a look slowly and methodically, frame by frame around 2:20 when the ostensible shot takes place. You will see some tricky editing and how the supposedly shot guy has moved 10-15 feet and from a standing to a lying position in about 5 frames (video moves at 30 frames per second).

  • rab

    #7. This story may be true, I have no way of knowing, but it’s almost certain that if the ambulance was targeted, it’s because it was being used for other purposes than medicine. Here is an example of how ambulances are sometimes cynically and illegally used in Gaza:

    https://youtu.be/QHlRLDKCqlc

    You will note that after the terrorists climb in, so does a man in medical uniform. They’re all traveling in the ambulance, in violation not just of law but every ethical consideration possible. There are many such stories from the past 13 years in particular. Do a search for “Hamas ambulance” or “Palestinian smuggle ambulance.” Here’s an example from 2006 of explosives being smuggled on an ambulance. Interesting part starts at around 2:30. https://youtu.be/iCsMI-_v0gk You can see from the camera’s date and time this is all part of one incident.

  • rab

    8. Sorry, but former high ranking generals who did a thorough report on the recent war in Gaza disagree with Al Jazeera, The Qatar regime’s mouthpiece media company. In fact, these senior generals, all retired, claim that by going as far as it did to attempt to minimize civilian injuries and deaths, Israel was undermining proper warfare norms and could harm future warfare tactics. Here is the report: http://www.jinsa.org/gaza-assessment authored by: a USAF general, co-leader of the National Security Project at the (bipartisan) Policy Center and Former Deputy Commander of United States European Command, a Lieutenant General and Former Commander of U.S. Army North, another Lieutenant General who was Commander of U.S. Marine Corps Forces Command, a Major General who was Director of Operational Planning, Policy, and Strategy – Headquarters Air Force and another Major General who was former Chief of Staff at U.S. Central Command.

    Oh, and by the way, the top US general, Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that Israel “went to extraordinary lengths to limit collateral damage and civilian casualties” during its war in Gaza.

    http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/11/07/top-u-s-general-israel-%E2%80%98went-to-extraordinary-lengths%E2%80%99-to-limit-gaza-casualties-video/

  • rab

    9. The ambulances didn’t come under fire. They arrived at a scene where a warehouse had been hit and apparently some explosives nearby or inside it blew up as a result.

  • Rahim Moosa

    I’ll look into it and the other cases you have looked into below. Can you look into the case of Dr. Izzeldin Abuelash’s daughters. What happened there?

  • rab

    I did. My responses included a reference to that. Please see the response that begins with “Let’s take #3…”

  • http://www.ihwlaw.com Isaac H. Winer

    I wish all anti-Israel people could understand Hebrew and see how the Israeli people generally all want peace. The tougher question is how to get there, but we need more partners like Lucy Aharish to make it happen. On Israel’s 67th birthday, the media celebrated an Israeli Arab Muslim woman’s partnership with all Israeli’s — Jews and Arabs alike — to work toward peace. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JBXLiXTMac

  • Rahim Moosa

    #6. Please refer me to a specific online video version and point out the exact location of what you are saying.

    Here is another story about the same incident:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy_Th5mOTMc

    which interviews the people with Shamaly when he was shot and then goes over to the house from where the soldiers did the shooting.

  • rab

    https://www.google.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D_AN2KIp-Vtg&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

    Aside from the fact it’s all ridiculous, the part that’s most important starts around 2:20, as I wrote above.

  • Rahim Moosa

    (1) Rab, I clearly saw the puff of the landing of one of the shots (near 15:27). I am looking at this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbZxbziFV5w
    These people are clearly being shot at.

    (2) From the time that one sees a man standing with the green shirt standing to the time that he is on the ground both the guy with the camera and Shamaly must have moved away from each other.

    (3) Elan Efrati talked to the soldiers who did the firing and they told him that they drew an imaginary line and shot anyone that crossed it.

    W.r.t. to the Abed-Rabbo family incident (#1), is it your claim that all 3 family members (interviewed separately without knowledge that they were going to be interviewed) are lying?

  • aseparatepiece

    Have you seen Amy Goodman interview Shulamit Aloni on the defamation tactic of using the Anti-Semite smear to stifle criticism of Israel? “It’s a trick, we always use it”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb62Lk7JKM4

    It’s been a successful tactic for many years, but it’s fast losing its efficacy, these days.

  • aseparatepiece

    Bravo Rahim. I see no substantive rebuttals. But that’s because the “Israel my country, right or wrong” crowd is more interested in their own propaganda than the facts. Fortunately most of them are middle aged or older. Younger generations of Jews are learning the truth about Israel, and they don’t like it.

  • freespeechlover

    Thanks much for linking this.

  • freespeechlover

    amen.

  • freespeechlover

    The fact that Jews are a privileged minority, aka that through struggle they have become “white” in America-noticing this is not the equivalent of saying that there can be no anti-Semitism.

    Attending to anti-Semitism, however, is not the same thing as taking some, and I mean some, “complaints” by pro-Israeli, Jewish (but in the US pro-Israeli includes right-wing Christianity very prominently) people “seriously.”

    Also, telling people who think BDS is anti-Semitic “you’re wrong,” is not an anti-Semitic act. It’s an act of deeply felt political disagreement. Just because someone feels something deeply doesn’t make it a singular truth.

  • aseparatepiece

    Yup, they are in a panic. Have you seen this video, “Jews Talk Justice?” Boy the Jewish Right Wing is battling hard for the hearts and minds of its youngsters. This video is an exercise in desperation and unintentionally comedic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-Nvk8k7DGI

    Thanks God for the Max Blumenthals of the world. What a mensch that guy is. Funnily enough, I think Israel’s staunchest critics are Israel’s best hope for a functional future. Because the right wingers in power over there now, combined with AIPAC and the Sheldon Adelsons of world and all their minions here in America — they have no viable plan for Israel, vis a vis what to do with the four million Palestinians that live in Gaza and the illegally occupied territories.

    Israel is currently in self destruct mode.

  • aseparatepiece

    Here’s one more for you, freespeechlover, because you could probably use the laugh, The SNL Hagel Hearings:

    http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2013/02/11/snl-video-the-hagel-confirmation-hearing-we-didnt-see-the-fellating-a-donkey-mention-might-be-why-we-didnt/

  • rab

    Eran Efraty is a delusional person who gets attention because he feeds the anti-Israel side what they want to hear. His story in this case makes no sense whatsoever.

    More to the point, in the video I provided, the one ISM – a propaganda outfit – released, they edited where there was no reason to edit, at the critical moment of the supposed shooting. Green Shirt (Hamas?) guy is next to the camera person. You can see his shirt in the frame. Then there’s an unseen “shot” which could be anything including a shot added in editing…and within 5 frames (less than one second) Green Shirt is 10-15 feet away already lying on the ground. There simply isn’t enough time for him to get shot and fall, much less get shot, fall and end up 10-15 feet away already lying on his back.

    Also, if someone fell that fast on the broken concrete, you’d see him writhing in pain or grabbing some part of his body. He doesn’t grab anything, he’s not bleeding, his body is perfectly comfortable. This is simply bad cinema.

  • Rahim Moosa

    First shot 13:15–no one hurt.
    13:24 Get Get down
    14:47 Guy with green shirt yells (for his family?)
    14:49: Second shot is heard.
    Camera moving very fast and we hear a thud.

    14:51: We see the green shirt guy on the ground. He is still alive and doing something with his cell phone. He moves his left arm and right leg.
    15:03: Third shot.
    15:08: Guy on the ground throws the cell phone behind him.
    15:21 Fourth shot.
    15:22 Guy on the ground is still moving.
    15:38 Guy on the ground moves some more.

    May I ask: Were the shots we hear (and the one puff I saw of the shot landing) faked as well?

    Ref:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbZxbziFV5w

  • rab

    Is this the video with Efraty giving an interview first? Okay, so the first question I have for you is why you’re not using the video I provided which is the same one except that mine is the original filmed and distributed by ISM and is therefore of far higher quality and precisely the edited version ISM wanted the world to see. Your source is re-editing the original that ISM distributed and to which I provided links. Please look up Salem Shamaly on Youtube and look for the 3:23 video. Then look again at my point about the shot at 2:20 which is supposedly when he is hit.

    But I will deal with your video. Please answer the following questions.
    1. Why isn’t his body recoiling from the shots – snipers use powerful guns and this man was supposedly hit multiple times.
    2. Where is the blood? 3-4 shots and zero blood?
    3. Why isn’t he yelling in pain after each shot?
    4. Look carefully around 13:40 of your tape. Do you see the aid workers in the background with bright yellow vests? If there were three shots by now, loud as the tape indicates (though we can’t see them or see their effects on Green man) then why is it that the aid workers are not reacting at all? Don’t you think they would at least look up? Would you hide or run away? Alternatively, wouldn’t they run to help him? But they do nothing. They don’t look up. They don’t run or hide or come to help. They just keep doing what they had been doing before.

  • Kosh

    I am confused because your statements are full of contradictions.
    The state of Israel, according to Bibi, is the homeland and national state of the Jews (His words not mine). I.e the Jewish people. The people who bombed and killed the Palestinians are that same Jewish people of Israel. Therefore quite simply the Jewish people of Israel launched a war in Gaza and killed Palestinians.

    I am not refusing to acknowledge that Arabs serve in the IDF, but even by the census data from Israel it is less than 1% of the Arab population. So how does that justify the Arabs participating fully in Israel?

    Everyone has a right to decide whether they accept a Jewish State or not. When the British were occupying India, many people did not accept India as part of the British empire. Hence its independence.

    Some of your highest judicial Jewish bodies have stated unequivocally that praying at the temple mount is forbidden. So are you calling those Jewish bodies anti-Semitic. Do you know what your talking about?

  • Kosh

    You confuse me. The Jewish people of Israel are running an occupation. It has been doing on for so long that many people are confused about what part belongs to Israel and what part does not. But there is no Israeli government official who denies the occupation. Even Netanyahu has stated clearly he wants the occupation to end. His words, not mine. But he also states that now is not the right time to do so.

    There is a fundamental problem in everything you just wrote Isaac. To occupy another people is an act of racism. I respect what the BDS is doing, but I am not actually actively looking up what to boycott and what not. But people like you keep attacking the anti-boycott movement, but do not offer any alternatives. So what is your alternative. Let me guess, “Lets return to the negotiating table.” But we already know that Netanyahu doesn’t want to solve the problem.

  • Kosh

    I understand what you wrote and it is fair to say. However there is a very very serious problem. A large number of people are being oppressed by a military occupation. An even larger number of people are being prevented from returning to their homes or their homeland.

    Right now the Jewish people have full rights in Israel. The Arab population are discriminated as acknowledged by the President of Israel, the previous president of Israel and widely by their own public opinions. On top of that the Jewish people of Israel are occupying people to whom they have not conferred voting rights. I.e the Palestinian people.

    So I know that you are saying that the BDS movement is trying to call for the destruction of Israel. As a gesture of goodwill, I have accepted your contention. I.e that you may be right. However the BDS came after all the occupation. Just as Hezbollah came after the occupation of Lebanon.

    I think the main thing BDS or not, is to stop the occupation altogether. It is complete racism. That is how it is seen all across Europe.

    So if you are attacking the BDS, then you need to first address why the BDS is there. If you disagree with the BDS’s unstated goal of seeking the end of Israel, then you have to find a way to finish the occupation. If Israel is not in the business of running detention centres, prison camps, military checkpoints, walls, water resource controls(must I go on) and the like then surely you dry the well up.

    Think before you leap sir.

  • ModernMaccabi

    Part of the problem, as far as I see it, is the vague notion of the term occupation. Indeed, many people believe that the entire country is occupied. If that is the case, how can Israel end the occupation without agreeing to its own demise? It can’t. However, if you are talking about ending the occupation of the West Bank and the discontinuation of restrictions in Gaza, I agree that it should end, although I don’t agree that it is racist. I think many Israelis and those that support Israel want it to end. But it can’t end without a negotiated settlement and cessation of violence. And, sadly, I just don’t think the Palestinians and their supporters have it in them to stop the violence against Jews/Israelis. Especially since many believe the entire country is occupied.

  • Kosh

    You are making the term occupation vague. Of course many of the Palestinians believe their entire country is occupied. For the simple reason: What do you call millions of Palestinians without a state, without a home and living in squalid refugee camps? What do you call generations of them living in such camps. So from their perspective they have every right to claim that Palestine is occupied. Because for many of them, the British mandate of Palestine was their home. And for many of them, they no longer live there. No government, save for Israel, has ever challenged that notion. Not even the US. What the US states is that

    I think even you are starting to understand, that Israel is losing the legitimacy. That all around the world people are disgusted by what they are having to see. That the Israelis do not want to make a choice between occupation or no occupation, because they are worried about the preservation of the Jewish character of the country. But people will not sit by idly and watch. You know in the 1970s the strength of support for Israel was very strong in the western nations. Now that strength of support is primarily in the US.

    “although I don’t agree that it is racist”

    Then if it is not racist, then it means there is nothing wrong with the occupation… That means it contradicts the fact that you claim you want it to end! More likely than not that you obviously do not understand what racism is for if you had experienced it personally you would know. When Israelis(Jews) state that Arabs in Israel face discrimination, what does that mean? It is racial discrimination, is it not? Unless you are going to tell me that Arabs do not face discrimination and that former presidents/prime ministers(leaders) of Israel were wrong to say that… Now Israel is occupying the West Bank, so they arrest a large number of civilians-Arabs. Rarely are Jewish settlers arrested. Even when they are, they are seen to get off rather lightly compared to their Arab neighbours. Many of the detentions of Arabs are without charge for years. That is not too dissimilar to the South Africans under apartheid arresting the blacks. The people in the West Bank are genuinely fearful of the Israelis who are Jewish, not the ones who are Arab. What does that say, to you? That the Jewish people of Israel are a people to be feared?? Is that how the Jewish people should be seen and remembered.

    So I have to ask what do you call occupying another people for 50 years then? Furthermore what will you call it when it reaches 100 years?

    You mention it cannot end without a negotiated settlement and cessation of violence. What violence are you talking about? Has violence not decreased dramatically since the 80,90s,00s.. Do a people not have the right to defend themselves against an occupation. If the Lebanese didn’t form Hizbollah and resist, then Israel would still be occupying Lebanon. So resistance to an occupation is an inalienable right. In any case Netanyahu clearly does not want a settlement, but he wants to negotiate. So if he doesn’t want a settlement, then what are you negotiating about? Anyway he promised before the election that he would never allow a Palestinian state to be created whilst in power. So please try to explain to me how the Palestinians can negotiate with someone who doesn’t want to give them anything.

    Now let me tell you what I think, going forward. The best thing the Palestinians can do is to make the occupation costly. To stop co-operation with the Israelis. That means the Israeli army will need to do the policing on a full-time basis. That means demonstrations and the Israeli army are very very brutal when they arrest Palestinians. Especially when they arrest children.

    Then the Palestinians will resist the Israelis in the westbank, violently. But when the Jewish people of Israel start coming for the Arabs in the Westbank in their homes- as they did in the past using bulldozers and missiles and what not; things will escalate further. Then Israel will need a full force occupation army in the territories, even more brutal than before. A battle in Gaza, a battle in the West Bank. A battle in Lebanon. It will have to be even more brutal and it is going to cost the Palestinians tens of thousands in lives. It will cost the Jewish people of Israel hundreds in blood and billions in wealth. While this is ongoing, there will be more calls for boycotts around the world. There will be a tremendous amount of pressure on the US and Israel. I think then and only then, can a solution be found.

    Of course we can avoid all that, if people like you stood up and just said the occupation needs to end right now.

  • ModernMaccabi

    I really do not know where to begin to respond to your diatribe. I’ll try to make it as simple as possible. The Arabs/Palestinians have been using violence against the Jews/Israelis since the 1920s, which is long before the so-called occupation. So the argument that the violence is because of the “occupation” is just the latest excuse for Arabs/Palestinians to try to harm Jews/Israelis.

    Throughout the 20th Century the Jews/Israelis took steps to defend themselves and the Arabs/Palestinians lost on numerous fronts: 1948, 1967, 1973, First Intifada, Second Intifada, Gaza I, Gaza II….The fact that Arabs/Palestinians have been attacking Jews/Israelis since long before the creation of Israel or the so-called occupation are historical facts that do not fit in with your narrative of the Arabs/Palestinians are fighting against oppression and occupation. Yet you continue to insist on the vague notion of “occupation” because it is an effective propaganda tool. I get it. However, it won’t end the violence or bring about peace. Just like the BDS movement, which demands that Jews/Israelis be thrown out and banished from their ancestral homeland, does nothing to bring about a workable solution or peace.

    Moving forward, the only way to find a peaceful solution is for the Arabs/Palestinians to accept the Jews/Israelis and for the Jews/Israelis to accept the Arab/Palestinians. Both parties need to stop needless violence and persecution and negotiate a fair and just solution for both sides. If not, then they will be condemned to a continued existence full of war, violence and heartache.

  • Ed Holmes
  • http://www.ihwlaw.com Isaac H. Winer

    Now that the proof is in, shame on those who previously suggested that someone from the pro-Israel community was behind the swastika tagging at SAE to play-up an anti-BDS agenda. http://www.stanforddaily.com/2015/06/26/suspect-arrested-for-sae-swastika-and-pentagon-graffiti-from-april/

  • Cpt_Justice

    I am confused because nothing he said was contradictory, but you certainly are making some weird statements.

    So, because Netanyahu acknowledges that Israel is the homeland of the Jews, this makes all Jews responsible for everything Israel does. OK – you mean the same way that French Americans are responsible for everything that France does? France is, after all, the undisputed ancestral homeland of all French-speaking people.

    I only ask this rhetorically, because I actually have very little problem with what Israel does, if only because I understand the difference between attack & defense, & the actual history of the area. You, OTOH, prove yourself very ignorant about what’s going on over there.

    The people who bomb Gaza were & are responding to attacks, as always. The innocents who died were, as per military expert opinion, the deliberate fault of Hamas. Israel is a world-leader in lowest civilian casualty ratios; there is an actual strategy on the part of Hamas to have as large a civilian body count to use as propaganda. Why do you not know this? They openly confess it – you can even find interviews on YouTube!

    If everyone had a right to vote on Israel, then everyone has a right to vote on the existence of every single other country on the planet. And yet, no one does. Why is that?

    Are you seriously blaming ISRAEL for NOT FORCING Arabs to join the military? See, this is what some of us like to call “Israel Derangement Syndrome”, because you would be the first to scream if Israel DID subject Arab Israelis to the draft.

    Do you know WHY *those* rabbis don’t want people praying on the Temple Mount? I suspect not. Nor do you know why all the other rabbis who are complaining about the ruling are doing so.

    YOU are the one who has no clue as to what YOU’RE talking about.

  • Cpt_Justice

    The idea that truth is subjective is extremely dangerous. and the ongoing deaths in Israel, etc., can attest to the extent of that danger.

    When someone can back up their “opinions” with fact, both legal & historical, that makes it truth, rather than some subjective opinion.

  • Cpt_Justice

    Dodge noted.