OPINIONS

Letter to the Editor: A dangerous premise

Letters to the Editor

By: Letters to the Editor

To the Editor:

Recently, I read an op-ed titled “Ethics and efficacy of Israel divestment,” by Neil Chaudhary. I was surprised to see this article allowed in The Daily. It makes some distasteful and questionable connections (e.g. equating Israel with apartheid South Africa), but I want to highlight its more egregious statements.

I was taken aback when Chaudhary began to discuss Israeli Jews’ “bunker mentality.”

He relies on a paper by Ronald Krebs to support his claim that Israeli Jews suffer from a “bunker mentality.” This article asserts that “the Israeli-Palestinian conflict does threaten Israel, but not…because militant and even seemingly moderate Palestinians harbor plans to drive the Jews into the sea.” Krebs claims that orthodox Jews have puppeteered the country into danger. “These are the real threats.” The paper claims that Israel’s neighbors are not real threats. Rather, Israel is endangering itself.

Chaudhary not only delegitimizes the threats from Israel’s neighbors, he implies they don’t exist. They are, instead, “perceived.” We must critique Israel’s response to its existential threats. But to posit that these threats are imagined is patently false and irresponsible. The argument implies that the Jews manufacture non-existent dangers as a tool of subjugation.

Israel faces real and possibly lethal threats. The 1948 Arab-Israeli War happened. Former Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Israel should be wiped off the map. The President of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, believes the Holocaust was a Zionist-Nazi plot. Hamas calls for the extermination of all Jews. These are only a few examples of how Israel is actually, not just perceivably, threatened. The article frames Israeli Jews as a group full of fabricated paranoia. This is a classically antisemitic trope — the Jew creating the illusion of the world against her. Holocaust deniers tout the same conspiracy. These false stereotypes and explanations of the Jewish mentality are destructive to Stanford’s welcoming environment.

The ideas perpetuated in this article make me feel unsafe on my own campus. I want to be clear: I am confident that the antisemitism perpetuated in this article is entirely inconsistent with Chaudhary’s (and most others’ who express the same narrative) beliefs. He wouldn’t deny or skew the holocaust; he doesn’t have racist views of Jews. However, the ideas are out there, and they are destructive.

Aaron Sabin ‘17

Contact Aaron Sabin at asabin ‘at’ stanford.edu.

Facts

My word, the Daily really is going all-out against SOOP today, isn’t it? Here’s another article with a number of false premises.

Ahmadinejad never said Israel should be wiped off the map. That’s a mistranslation. Look it up.

Hamas’ charter may be awful, but in practice the organization has been very willing to negotiate cease fires and peace deals… offers that Israel has repeatedly turned down, usually with violence.

Israel doesn’t have to create the illusion of the world opposing its positions; that is the reality. Look at the repeated votes in the UN against what it is doing… they often come out the world on one side, the US and Israel on the other.
Brownstudent

SJP and BDS are explicitly opposed to peace and a two state solution and explicitly in favor of the destruction of Israel. Do you deny this?
Guest

I believe that denying Jews sovereignty in the one country on the planet that is the home of their historic beginning is indeed anti-Semitic. Especially when you consider that Muslims already have 56 sovereign countries (Organization of the Islamic Conference) – 21 of these Arab (Arab League).
Guest

“From a small village of a few thousand inhabitants, Tel Aviv has grown into a most impressive modern metropolis of over 200,000. They have truly done much with what all agree was very little.

The Jews point with pride to the fact that over 500,000 Arabs in the 12 years between 1932 and 1944, came into Palestine to take advantage of living conditions existing in no other Arab state. This is the only country in the Near and Middle East where an Arab
middle class is in existence.”

Robert Kennedy, June 3, 1948
http://robertkennedyandisrael.blogspot.com/
mxm123

Chaudhary in his submission talks almost entirely about Israels treatment of it Palestinians citizens. Aaron Saabin not once challenges any of Chaudharys’ assertions of such treatment. But rather goes on the usual talking points spiel.

Why ? Because Aaron Saabin can’t deny Israels apartheid like treatment. Therefore time to roll out the “antisemitism” canard. Shame.
mxm123

They are for equal rights. Do you deny this ?
Brownstudent

SJP and BDS are explicitly against Jews having the same rights as Arabs.
mxm123

And about that “bunker mentality”.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/strenger-than-fiction/strenger-than-fiction-israel-s-bunker-mentality-1.293767

” This inability to listen is reinforced by self-righteousness: Israel is stuck in the belief that it is right, and everybody else is wrong and hence incapable of admitting that Israeli policy vis-à-vis the Palestinians has been disastrous; that Israel should have engaged with the Arab League peace initiative years ago, and that a U turn needs to be made. Admitting that one has been wrong is always difficult; but Israel’s need for self-righteousness makes it even more difficult.”

Haaretz is an Israeli newspaper. So much for the supposed “antisemitism”.

Man up Mr Saabin. Quit pretending that Israel is not an apartheid state when it comes to Palestinians. Quit hiding behing “anti-semitism”.
Guest

Very well said. The only motivation behind minimizing or pretending that Israel has no national security threats is to demonize Israel and, let’s face it, Jews. This is not a new phenomenon. It is an all-too-oft repeated story in the history of the Jewish people and it is disgraceful. Because this point of view has gained so much currency these days, particularly on college campuses, it feels uncomfortable to call this anti-Semitic. It feels impolite. It is, however, unfortunately true. And I’m glad the author had the courage to say it.
mxm123

Prove it. Else you’re lying. But then what would be new with that.
Brownstudent

I don’t lie. You’re thinking of yourself. Here’s some proof, not that you will accept it anyway:

“I am completely and categorically against binationalism because it
assumes that there are two nations with equal moral claims to the land.”

-Omar Bargouti

http://electronicintifada.net/content/boycotts-work-interview-omar-barghouti/8263

“[Israel] was Palestine, and there is no reason why it should not be renamed Palestine.”

-Omar Barghouti

http://books.google.com/books?id=qDO5YrLYGtMC&lpg=PA176&dq=This%20was%20Palestine%2C%20and%20there%20is%20no%20reason%20why%20it%20should%20not%20be%20renamed%20Palestine.&pg=PA176#v=onepage&q&f=false

“The goal of #BDS is the full restoration
of Palestinian rights, not an agreement to create an artificial
mini-state in order to save Zionism”

-Ali Abunimah, BDS activist

https://twitter.com/AliAbunimah/status/430888024864342016

BDS’ objective is to give Arabs all the rights and Jews no rights at all. They admit this. Time for you to do the same.
Guest

This is good fact-checking, but it does nothing to refute the central claims of the article. The author is talking about anti-semitism not SOOP or how the world feels about Israel.
mxm123

Again. None of those statements negate equal rights. Your claim of no rights for Jews is an utter fabrication that you’ve yet to prove.

But then whats new.
Brownstudent

First quote: Omar Barghouti says that the two nations don’t have equal claims to the land. Guess which one he thinks has more?
mxm123

Omar wants a single nation Palestine. How does that deny equal rights ?
Brownstudent

Because Palestinian Arabs will have fulfilled their rights of self-determination and statehood and the Israelis will be denied their rights to the same.
mxm123

So equal rights for both is not equal for Jews. Great. So you just made up your spiel about “equal rights” because you don’t like the supposed result. Ain’t that dishonest.
Brownstudent

How exactly is an Arab/Muslim State of Palestine in which Jews are an oppressed minority ground under an apartheid rule (assuming the Arabs are generous and leave any of them alive) “equal rights for both?”

Ain’t that dishonest.
mxm123

How does one become an “oppressed minority” when you have equal rights.

Quit being dishonest.
Brownstudent

Since when do Arabs treat non-Arabs with equal rights? Can you name a single Arab country in which racial or religious minorities have equal rights to the majority? If not, then why should anyone believe you or BDS when they say that Palestine will be different?
mxm123

You can’t prove that BDS / SJP advocate for equal rights. So you just make it up.

Thanks for your dishonesty.
Brownstudent

BDS/SJP advocate for Arab/Muslim boots stomping on Jewish faces forever. Thanks for your dishonesty. Now go run along back to Electronic Intifada.
mxm123

Repeatedly asked you to prove that BDS / SJP advocate for equal rights.

And you couldn’t. That says a lot about your honesty.
Student ’18

Because an Israeli newspaper printed it (the famously left-leaning Ha’aretz, no less), it must be true! Please note that there have been, and still are, African-Americans racist against other African-Americans and women sexist against other women. The fact that the columnist is Israeli (he isn’t, by the way, he’s a Swiss-born secular atheist, but my point stands even if he were) has nothing to do with whether or not he can be anti-Semitic.

Your definition of Israel being an apartheid state implies that different ethnicities have different rights under Israeli law, which is wrong. Israel is the freest state in the Mid-East. It gives all its citizens the most rights out of any country in the Mid-East. Arab Muslims have seats in the Knesset proportional to their population in Israel. OTOH, Muslim countries, particularly Muslim countries whose government is run by a terrorist organization, don’t have a great track record as far as their citizens’ rights go. The one state solution proposed by BDS might be different, but we don’t need to find out, because there is already a country there in which Muslims and Jews can peacefully coexist. It’s called Israel.
Brownstudent

I’m saying that BDS/SJP advocate *against* equal rights for Arabs and Jews. And I have provided much evidence to back that up. Go back and read my comments again if you’re still confused.
mxm123

An Israeli newspaper publishes an Opinion with pretty much the same argument as Chaudhary’s. But Haaretz is not antisemitic. However Chaudhary is !!! This is a perfect display of mendacious arguments by pro-Israeli Shills.

And the next time you go on and on about rights for Arabs in Israel, please do tell why you don’t compare them with American rights. After all isn’t Israel “just like America” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mxm123

Correction : Repeatedly asked you to prove that BDS / SJP advocate AGAINST equal rights.

You’ve provided no link, no quote where BDS/SJP advocate against equal rights for all on that land.

You keep lying.
Student ’18

Congrats! You win the prize for the most heinous misinterpretation of any remark I have ever seen! The thing that I said was literally that Ha’aretz can, and sometimes is, anti-Semitic. You misread my comment as saying the exact opposite. That takes talent.

Not sure what your second half is saying, but yeah, Israel and America are two of the shockingly few countries in the world that offer equal protection under the law for all of its citizens regardless of ethnicity. Good on you for recognizing that.
Brownstudent

Whoever is paying you to troll every BDS-related article on college newspapers should get their money back.
mxm123

Point me to the line where you claim Haaretz is sometimes antisemitic. Cause you reference antisemitism in this quote, which clearly doesn’t claim so. Why do you lie.

“The fact that the columnist is Israeli (he isn’t, by the way, he’s a Swiss-born secular atheist, but my point stands even if he were) has nothing to do with whether or not he can be anti-Semitic.”

Oh wait Israel has the same rights as America ? Like Jewish only immigration to Israel ? Like discrimination on land sales to non-Jews in Israel. Ha Ha, how you lie !!!
mxm123

Again, you lied. And I’m pointing it out. Inconvenient for your Hasbara trolling.
Student ’18

Am I being trolled? I seriously think I am being trolled. The quotation you pulled literally is says that Israelis are capable of being anti-Semitic. I’m not sure how much clearer I can get. Here, let me say this, so that there are no more questions. I’ll capitalize all of it too, in the hopes that you will finally get it.

ISRAELIS CAN BE ANTI-SEMITIC. HA’ARETZ, AN ISRAELI NEWSPAPER, CAN BE ANTI-SEMITIC.

Please respond to this point rather than focusing on semantics, which are the tactics of one who has no ground to stand on.

Israel only allows Jews to immigrate to Israel? Then how come the Israeli-Arab population is growing at a faster rate (2.2%) than the Israeli-Jewish population (1.7%)? Magic? And yes, I disagree with Israel’s state-owned land leasing policy, just like I disagree with some discriminatory American policies, such as the Patriot Act.

Nevertheless, I pose you the following question. Which group has more rights: Muslims living in Israel, or Jews living in any of the other 50-odd Muslim countries?
mxm123

First you claim it has nothing to do whether the author is or is not anti-semitic.

Then you claim that Haaretz is anti-semitc.

Then you blame me for pointing out your lies.

Then you dance around the fact that only Jews can immigrate to Israel. Then you claim the Patriot Act is just like laws in Israel that benefit only Jews.

And finally you’re back to comparing Israel to other Arab countries and not America.

Very convenient.
Student ’18

My original comment said that whether the author or the publication is Israeli or not has no bearing on whether the work is anti-Semitic. Every single thing I have said after that has been consistent with that. I am done arguing this point with you, since it is clear that you don’t want to understand what I’m saying.

I have refuted each and every one of your arguments. You can’t tell me why the Arab growth rate in Israel is higher than the Jewish one despite so-called immigration bans. You can’t tell me how there can be laws that unfairly discriminate in both countries. You can’t even answer a very simple question that I posed to you, because you know that if you answered truthfully, your argument would be shot to hell. All you can do, and all you are doing, is debate the semantics of my points rather than refute the points themselves, because you can’t refute them.

If you’re a troll, let me congratulate you on a job well done. If you’re arguing in earnest, then I would hope that you’re merely misinformed and misguided, because the alternative does not look kindly upon your intellect.
mxm123

“My original comment said that whether the author or the publication is Israeli or not has no bearing on whether the work is anti-Semitic. ”

And then you claimed

“The thing that I said was literally that Ha’aretz can, and sometimes is, anti-Semitic.”

I’m not debating semantics. I’m putting up your dishonesty for full display.
Student ’18

Like I said, I’m done debating this point with you. If someone else has a problem or doesn’t understand what I said, they can comment themselves, but I think I have made myself clear enough on this point to anyone with an open mind.

You have anything for the last three-fourths of my prior post? Or are you just giving up now?
mxm123

I’m not debating you. I’m just putting up for full display your lies.

“You can’t tell me why the Arab growth rate in Israel is higher than the Jewish one despite so-called immigration bans.” – Another specious argument. What does growth rate have to do with discrimination against immigration ?

“You can’t tell me how there can be laws that unfairly discriminate in both countries.” – Umm, there are no laws in America that discriminate based on religion and or race. Unlike Israel.
Student ’18

So if Israel really does not allow any Arabs to immigrate, how is the growth rate so high? Magic? I’m unaware of any way for a population to grow besides childbirth and immigration, and while I don’t have the statistics, I sincerely doubt that the Israeli-Arab fertility rate is so high as to match and exceed the Israeli-Jewish fertility rate and immigration rate. If I am correct about that, then there must be Arabs entering the country. How are they doing that?

In theory, the Patriot Act does not discriminate based on religion and/or race, but in practice, it does. That’s the same with Israeli land leases; it doesn’t discriminate in the letter of the law, but in practice, it does. There are other laws, both in America and Israel, that do not discriminate in the wording of the law but do discriminate in the real world. However, no law, in America or in Israel, discriminates explicitly in addition to implicitly/in practice. This is unlike the Muslim world, in which laws that explicitly discriminate are commonplace.

I notice you still haven’t answered my question. For your convenience, let me restate it. Which group has more rights: Muslims living in Israel, or Jews living in any of the other 50-odd Muslim countries?
mxm123

“So if Israel really does not allow any Arabs to immigrate, how is the growth rate so high? Magic? I’m unaware of any way for a population to grow besides childbirth and immigration, and while I don’t have the statistics, I sincerely doubt that the Israeli-Arab fertility rate is so high as to match and exceed the Israeli-Jewish fertility rate and immigration rate. If I am correct about that, then there must be Arabs entering the country. How are they doing that?”

Its a fact. Look it up and quit playing dumb.

“In theory, the Patriot Act does not discriminate based on religion and/or race, but in practice, it does. ”

That would be a far cry from openly discriminatory laws.

“Which group has more rights: Muslims living in Israel, or Jews living in any of the other 50-odd Muslim countries?”

Muslims living in Israel. Oh wait lets ask the Palestinians in Gaza and or the West Bank !!!!!
Student ’18

I’m not disputing Israel’s immigration policies. Those are very well documented, and I am not looking to play dumb. I am wondering honestly how the Arab population seems to be continually growing at a rate higher than the Jewish population despite the Israeli immigration laws.

Regardless of whatever you say, if you create a spectrum of discrimination, and put America on one end and the Muslim world on the other, Israel is just about all the way on the American end. Some Israeli laws are discriminatory, as are some American laws, but neither country holds a candle to any of the myriad of Muslim countries in the Mid-East, the world experts on overt discrimination.

I agree with you that the current situation for Palestinians is bleak and quite unfortunate. You’re mixed up on who is to blame. That would be Hamas. Any resolution ending in peace either ends with Hamas out of power or every Jew in the Mid-East dead or gone.
mxm123

Black population in South Africa grew. Does that mean there was no ethnic cleansing in South Africa ?

Blaming Hamas. Oh wait there is no Hamas in the West Bank, but the ethnic cleansing / apartheid goes on.

I guess its on to your next set of talking points.
Student ’18

The percentage of black people in South Africa grew because white people left South Africa.

There is, in fact, Hamas in the West Bank. Google the 2014 Palestinian unity government.

Calling what is currently going on in Palestine ethnic cleansing or apartheid is an insult to those subject to the South African apartheid.
Guest

Lets be clear. There is no freedom of the press in Arab countries or in the Pali territories. Any Arab who would speak out in defense of a state for Jews in Israel, or against Hamas or the Palestinian Authority will be jailed or killed. In Israel, where there is freedom of speech and press you will hear many views.
mxm123

“The percentage of black people in South Africa grew because white people left South Africa.” – Another fine fabrication. Even if you included the population of whites that left Apartheid South Africa in the total the percent of blacks rose.

Conclusion ethnic cleansing has nothing to do with population growth. Nice try though.

And regards your Hamas in the West Bank. Another fine fabrication. The Unity Govt was Fatah in the West Bank with Hamas in Gaza.

Onto your next fabrication.