Happy Hour Roundup
* The town halls are back! Sort of. The NRCC is coordinating a “tele-town hall” — by phone — tonight in the districts of two key undecided Dems, Bill Owens and Scott Murphy, a GOP official says.
The call will be run by two GOP Reps, heart surgeon Charles Boustany (who responded to Obama’s speech) and NRCC deputy chair Greg Walden. They’ll be on a phone call that gets pumped into homes in the Dem districts. Recipients can sign into the call, whereupon the good doctor will explain to them why the Dem plan is disastrous for their health.
* MSNBC says Dem leaders are within five of getting the needed 216 to pass health reform.
* But David Dayen urges skepticism, since it’s in the interest of leaders to give passage an aura of inevitability in order to swing remaining undecides.
* Rep Travis Childers will vote No, which is a big deal because he was one of the core 15 or so truly undecided votes.
* Rep Betsy Markey of Colorado will switch from No to Yes, a vote that puts her in “political peril,” according to the Fort Collins Coloradoan.
* Rep Bart Gordon will also flip from No to Yes.
* Upshot of above announcements: As best as I can determine, many of the core true undecided Dems still haven’t made up their minds.
* Sam Stein concurs, says it all turns on whether former No votes who are still undecided can be flipped.
* The final bill is here.
* Also in that link (scroll down): Rep Bobby Rush is all over the map, appears to be back in the undecided camp.
* Research 2000 for DailyKos: Marco Rubio still crushing Charlie Crist, 58-30.
* White House announces renewed push for immigration reform, but those involved insist the timing has nothing to do with the need for Hispanic support for the health bill.
* Glenn Greenwald and Jane Hamsher say Ben Smith was mostly right about Rahm Emanuel’s vindication.
* And Joe Biden acknowledges in an interview with ABC News that he’s gotten an earful of criticism of White House “messaging” from nervous House Dems — but tells them everything’s gonna be alright.
What else is happening?
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“Gloomy Americans bash congress”
http://people-press.org/report/598/healthcare-reform
If they don’t pass this, it’s on them what happens next. And it won’t be good.
sbj – Americans always bash Congress.
At any given time I’ve never seen Congressional approvals much above the abysmal level.
Seriously, sbj – when have you ever seen an article titled: Americans delighted with Congress!
@tena: I’m simply providing a link to the highly-respected Pew poll. It’s good reading.
Very thoughty of you.
State of the health care debate: Talk radio attacks an 11-year old:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/18/90669/state-of-the-health-care-debate.html
SBJ Have you seen the WSJ poll that shows the pendelum has now swung to 46-45% in FAVOR of the bill. Have you also seen the poll from the Economist…
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/03/americas_views_health-care_reform_and_car_companies
Barack Obama’s effort to breathe new life into the health care reform debate by hosting a bipartisan summit of Congressional leaders last week may have been modestly successful. There is a small margin of support for the health care reform proposals put forth by the Obama Administration, with 53% supporting them and 47% opposing.
Have you EVER posted anything except negativity about Obama. You have NO credibility SBJ. Your party has people like Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann who are ABSOLUTE LIARS! Bachman’s latest on Sean Hannity’s radio show…Deem and pass means we should impeach Speaker Pelosi..Bachmann then said Dennis Hastert could have never gotten away with that…..DENNIS HASTERT USED DEEM AND PASS 100X!!!!!!!
You are lying with liars and losers SBJ and your going to get up with far worse than just fleas!!!!
@Ethan…if you’re still out there…re Rubio and the Fl Senate race…did I see you post on an earlier thread that Rubio’s lead over Kendrick Meek is only at 41-40% ?
If that’s true it’s a great day in Florida. We’ve heard nothing but Rubio..Rubio..Rubio..of course recently it’s been about his crooked dealings as Speaker of the Florida House but still Rubio’s name recognition compared to Meek has to be a large advantage…Meek hasn’t really started rolling out the big guns yet.
Humanity Critic – Man that is a bunch of sick vicious people.
Oh now I see why your so proud to vote republican and align yourself with the party of no.
They speak for GOD!!! Who wouldn’t want to be part of a group that speaks for GOD?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/18/iowa-congressman-and-glenn_n_504633.html
Glenn Beck and Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) expressed harmonized outrage on Beck’s radio program Thursday about news that the House might vote on the health care reform package this Sunday. Voting on a Sunday, they said, was offensive and heretical.
“They intend to vote on the Sabbath, during Lent, to take away the liberty that we have right from God,” King said.
As Think Progress points out, a Republican-controlled Senate convened on Palm Sunday in 2005 to pass a measure which granted a federal court the power to intervene in the religiously-charged Terri Schiavo case.
Seriously it must be humiliating for a rational person to be associated with this group of liars, hypocrites, and loons!!! Ohhh but I forget..they do speak for GOD!!
All, added a few more items above. apologies for the haste/tardiness of the roundup…had some **** to take care of
man, I got punked by my own filter.
““They intend to vote on the Sabbath, during Lent, to take away the liberty that we have right from God,” King said.a’;
Hysteria, much? LOL What a bunch of drama queens.
Greg – ROFLMAO!!!
But Tena don’t you find it dramatic that folks are able to speak for GOD?
ruk – Well, I kind of got used to it during the Bush Administration.
BTW While SBJ doesn’t find the WSJ poll or the Economist poll to be “meaningful” enough to share that info..it’s actually great news at the perfect time.
WSJ and the Economist are hardly considered lefty leaning publications. And it’s clear the momentum out there amongst the voters is swinging in favor of the bill. The Dems are using BOTH of these polls with undecideds.
@Greg
Might want to also note that Rubio only leads Kendrick Meek by 1 in that Kos poll and thats within the margin of error
Juan Cole on…well, read it http://www.salon.com/news/israel/index.html?story=/opinion/feature/2010/03/17/goldberg_israel_nationalism
Re: momentum.
Sully posted these graphs yesterday. There is no question that support is increasing and opposition decreasing.
This post suggests it’s because liberals in a big way & moderates to a lesser extent are changing their opinions from opposition to support. Conservatives, if anything, are more opposed than they used to be.
HMPH!
Here’s the first post.
Ed Kilgore on Stupak and his having none of the nuns…
“Stupak’s meaning couldn’t be clearer: in figuring out his position on health reform, he’s not identifying with fellow Catholics who are struggling to balance various ethical considerations; he’s acting as an agent for the Right-To-Life Movement and its often-machiavellian political game plans. It’s particularly interesting that he mentioned Focus on the Family, the right-wing evangelical Protestant “ministry,” as a greater influence on him than 59,000 nuns.
Why does this matter?…” http://www.thedemocraticstrategist.org/ (see Stupak: The Man and the Movement)
@Bernie
I honestly thought that people would have talked about the sexism inherent in Stupak’s statement and the irony that he is talking about abortion but explicitly will not consult with women of the cloth, nuns, in formulating his viewpoint. Maybe somebody has pointed it out but I haven’t seen or heard it and I think that its a very salient point which could really hurt him in his primary……against a woman.
Just sayin
My vote for quote of the day, from Ed Kilgore…
”
The teeth-grinding frenzy of the next 72 hours will be a sight to behold.”
@sg – Amazing omission, isn’t it? But I suspect that sexism is so pervasive in our culture (and many others) that it often isn’t even noticed by many. And there’s something about the modern right which is profoundly anti-woman, so for that crowd, denigration of women to second class status is like water to a fish. You are absolutely correct to note this omission and I don’t know how we can explain it other than something like the above.
And, yes, it ought to hurt him. It would be very inspiring to see women in his district get seriously angry and activist.
Walcott on JD Hayworth…
“I wonder what Mrs. Hayworth thinks of her husband’s cavalier attitude about the sanctity of marriage, his willingness to cast it and her aside if the right pony came along that he could make his horse-wife. “A devoted family man, J.D. is happily married to Mary, and they are blessed with 3 children, Nicole , Hannah, and John Micah.” Oh sure, now they are blessed; but if J. D. Hayworth insists on giving in to his affections, he may eventually be the proud sire of a second set of children named Flicka, Pegasus, and Phar Lap, whose glossy manes would be the envy of their classmates but would make any future candidacy “problematic,” even in a Palinized Republican Party barely distinguishable from your average freak show.”
via Amato (great piece) ***-animals" rel="nofollow">http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/what-it-republican-***-animals
Totally sexist. He was outright dismissive of the Nuns on Hardball for no reason whatsoever. ******* pig.
@sgwhite Thanks for the info on the Rubio Meeks matchup. If it’s truly 41-40 I’m very excited because Kendrick hasn’t really yet started to fight.
@Bernie…Wow the Juan Cole link was a fascinating read.
I’ve come to the gloomy conclusion that ignorance still rules the day and that people want to be told what they want to hear. What else could explain the success of documented Liars and ignoramuses like Palin and Bachmann.
And so Bernie my erudite friend how do we combat this mind boggling ignorance. My wife is a dentist and I’m her business manager. The first Practice Management seminar we attended the lecturer pointed out something frightening…when he talked about changes that needed to be made in that practice..the employees all chirped..”Change? You mean we have to change?”
When a baby is taken from a mother by social services because the mother has been abusive and even put cigarettes out on the baby..the baby still cries for it’s mother because fear of the unknown is greater than the fear of a known horror.
What can we do Bernie when ignorance rules and fear of change is simply an ingrained part of human nature?
RUK, just saw your post, Meek is the goods imho, I don’t know why he hasn’t had more umph. You’d think he’d be getting much more attention esp given the horrific fiery wreck going on on the GOP side of things. But I think you’re right. The big guns are going to come out when the time is right and we’ll be talking about the Meek/Rubio battle for sure!
@Ethan Are you a fellow Floridian or just an observer happy to see an R Senate seat snatched away by the Dems.
I am such a big Debbie W.S. fan as well as a fan of Robert Wexler that I was hoping one of them would have made that Senate run. But Sgwhite has converted me into a Meeks supporter. Being from WCentral Florida I wasn’t all that familiar with Meeks but after reading his bio and his positions on issues he seem like the real deal. And so thanks to Sgwhite for turning me on to Kendrick! It’s much more fun to SUPPORT someone than to simply be AGAINST someone.
Just a thought folks…we have spent lots of time talking about “primarying” those against HCR. We should be just as positive in helping those who have decided to help.
Betsy Markey of Colorado represents a district that voted for McCain. She switched from a No vote to a yes vote. We need to remember the Betsy Markey’s and when the midterm roll around..let’s all kick in a buck or two to her campaign. There is time enough to primary Stupak and Lincoln but it is just as important to remember those who did the right thing at peril to their own election.
And again let’s tell conservatives to STFU when they try to claim the American public does not support this bill. That is simply another LIE to add to their LONG LIST OF LIES!!!
WSJ..not exactly a libtard rag…46-45 in favor of the bill.
The Economist..again not a libtard rag..
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/03/americas_views_health-care_reform_and_car_companies
Barack Obama’s effort to breathe new life into the health care reform debate by hosting a bipartisan summit of Congressional leaders last week may have been modestly successful. There is a small margin of support for the health care reform proposals put forth by the Obama Administration, with 53% supporting them and 47% opposing.
The Beck-King histrionics about holding the vote on a Sunday exhibits the kind of desperation that reminds me of a scene in The Blues Brothers.
Cary Fisher has been hunting ex-boyfriend Jake for most of the film for what he did to her before he went off to Joliet. When she finally gets hold of him, after many near misses, he lets loose a litany of excuses:
“I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn’t have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn’t come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN’T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.”
I’d say at this point he GOP and its minions are at locusts.
BG It’s truly hard for me to understand how TRUE conservatives exist today. It must be a *****. They can’t possibly feel good about liars and frauds like Palin and Bachman…and then the so called conservative intelligentsia Kristol et al have sold out and actually support the morons in their party.
It must be a real ***** to be an intelligent principled conservative now days.
forcing the public to buy a product from an industry with an anti-trust exemption is not a substitute for a functioning democracy.
ruk, I think whatever smart conservatives remain have their heads between their legs hoping it’ll all just go away.
I think the worst of the teabag machinations are going to hit the GOP starting this summer. The latter are going to be forced into some seriously untenable political situations. In FL, for example, this is where Meeks has the advantage; Rubio has to stay so far to the right that he can’t be at all flexible.
Anyone else out there watching the NCAA tournament??
Wow, is it upset city!
Ohio looked amazing, and stupidass CBS didn’t even cut away to their amazing win over G’town. Oh mama my bracket is broken.
Now Marquette poised to go down! Other than St. Marys the Catholic schools are getting whooped. Maybe Jesus is mad at the bishops.
Democratic health care plans … are pretty simple
One Ring to rule them all,
One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.
Its the Chicago Way.
RU,
You profoundly misapprehend the modus vivendi. It has nothing to do with feeling good about personalities of any stripe.
Nevertheless politix ain’t beanbag.
The WSJ poll is a thin reed, given a few other cross-tabs. The pollster.com aggregate is 52-41, but yes, the margin has shrunk slightly.
http://www.pollster.com/
I’m definitely mad at the bishops. Luckily their ring of influence has been diminished somewhat by the nuns and the Catholic hospitals. And Bart Stupak is toast for catering not to the Catholic bishops but to his C Street Family and Focus on the Family. I don’t think many women in his district will vote for him who aren’t completely controlled by men or their religion.
Does it bother any of you sensible centrists that Obama was lying about his support for the public option? Or did you see the kabuki for what it was and approve of his con job on the gullible liberals?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html
BG, sorry, my husband’s watching the Madness but I’m just quietly waiting for opening day of baseball season.
From TPM.
“After taking heat for a “special deal” in the House’s health care reconciliation bill that would benefit the Bank of North Dakota, House leadership will submit a manager’s amendment to remove the deal.
The provision, seen as a deal for Sen. Kent Conrad (D-ND), would have allowed the Bank of North Dakota, a state bank, to continue receiving federal subsidies for student loans, even as the bill eliminated such subsidies for other banks. Student loan legislation is tied into the health care bill.
So Conrad had his staff call leadership and ask to get it removed.
“I’ve just sent a signal that they should remove that before they send the package, because in this heated environment, it is virtually impossible to discuss the merits or demerits of a difference,” Conrad told reporters today. “So I just called my staff and said, ‘call the House.’”
Adding a manager’s amendment will not restart the 72-hour clock in between when the bill is posted and when it’s voted on.”
barbados, as a liberal/progressive, I’ve watched the Kabuki from both sides and at this point am happy to see something move forward that interrupts the status quo and will improve the lives of the least and sickest of our citizens.
lms, well played.
Who’s your baseball team?
Angels all the way.
Have I mentioned lately how much fun it is being born and raised in CA. I’m trying to figure out how to get my state back.
“Not content with repeatedly humiliating herself on national TV, losing court case after court case and being fined five figures in the process, or being duped by obvious forgeries in her attempt to de-legitimize President Obama, birther-in-chief Orly Taitz has decided to take the next step: she is seeking the Republican nomination to challenge incumbent California Secretary of State (and progressive hero) Debra Bowen.
The Secretary of State, of course, runs the state’s elections division and certifies candidates on the ballot, so Taitz’ interest in the seat is self-obvious: she undoubtedly feels that as Secretary of State, she will finally have the power to prove her birther conspiracy theory and deny Obama a place on the 2012 California ballot.”
http://dante-atkins.dailykos.com/
lms,
Apologies re: luring Lackey away.
{{{BoSox4Evah}}}
Is it me, or does it seem like there should be a lot more dimwitted right-wing trolls wondering around spouting random gibberish on liberal boards by now? What’s become of the great troll herds of yesteryear?
tao9, I was disappointed with that move. Big John was one of my guys since the WS and his little temper tantrums. I love an impassioned pitcher. We always seem to survive the trades somehow thanks to Scioscia.
Funny last year Boston was the cake walk and the Yanks trimmed our sails. I feel an “opposite day” joke coming on.
CalD, they’re resting up for tomorrow, which should be their last hoorah for health care anyway. Immigration should be interesting though.
@ru
Jeez, not asking much, are you? Chomsky gets this question quite regularly and has the only real answer; get/keep yourself educated, be active and organize. It really is only organized action which brings desired social improvement, and it does do that, if slowly. Women’s rights, civil rights, gay rights, workplace safety etc are real gains. Beyond that generalization?
First, I don’t think ‘fear of change’ is an addressable problem as it is pretty deeply a part of our genetic inheritance which is there for some not bad reasons. Most of us here are fearful of the consequences of climate change and it’s a good thing we are. And we’re probably fearful of how social organization might go here if modern ‘conservatives’ regain power to any significant degree. And we should be, I think.
If the more proper question might be…where should we direct efforts?… I think that has to be answered individually according to what we perceive and value. My attention goes to the devices and agencies of propaganda (by which I mean purposeful misinformation and obfuscation). But others will have entirely valid alternate targets.
If there is anything in here that approaches an axiom, it is the danger of apathy or laziness (both of which I am too often guilty).
Not terribly satisfactory, I know. Sorry. Keep in mind what has been achieved and how it was achieved.
lms,
Wish you had held on to Teixeira, he was the D*mnYanqui glue last year.
WHAPLSAPL (What Happens At PlumLine Stays At…) — I’m in a mixed marraige, Ms. Tao bleeds PinstripeBlue, came to an “understanding” last summer…I really admire Tex, and think Jeter is the Gehrig of our times. If this gets out east of the CT River I can never go home.
Angels and Red Sox, oh my!
Can’t you guys just let the Cubs win once?
Can’t wait for the season. Optimism springs eternal. Sort of like Johnson’s definition of marriage: the triumph of hope over experience.
tao9, your secret’s safe with me. And WHAPLSAPL looks quite interesting, I think you’re on to something. Tex wasn’t that good for us so I guess he’s home now.
Oh BG, my CA cousin/more like a brother is a die hard Cubs fan and it’s just so tough to watch, really. I drag him to Angels games to get his interest piqued but he will not relent. Of course when he’s not watching the Cubs he goes for our cross town rival in Blue, grrrrr.
Have a good night all, looks like we’ll live to fight another day!!! Manana
@sgwhite
“Might want to also note that Rubio only leads Kendrick Meek by 1 in that Kos poll and thats within the margin of error.”
Ugh, it’s a real shame. Meek is a freakin’ terrible candidate. He has basically had the field all to himself on the Democratic side, and he’s invisible. Most people thinks his name is “Meeks”.
I mean, MAYBE it’s a strategy to avoid having to get into the contentious issues that are fueling anti-Democratic sentiment in FL…but I never get the impression he’s that politically savvy. He simply comes off as having no personality.
Notice in that DK poll he’s the only one with a positive favorability, which is great news. However, his “unknown” numbers are still really high, which means that positive rating can disappear fast once a Republican attack machine gets going. He needs to be defining himself as a positive entity right now – that should be goal #1.
If he does that, then he stands a chance. Right now, he’s going to hold even until the GOP Primary is over. Then a majority of the people who have no idea who he is are going to get an introduction via the RNC.
Thiessen’s column this morning is the equal of Kristol’s columns in the Times. That is, in-artful and head-shakingly un-bright.
“To paraphrase my old boss, Donald Rumsfeld, they have started with an illogical premise”
A premise is neither logical nor illogical. A premise is either true or false. It’s the conclusion derived from premises which might be illogical.
Propagandists like Kristol or Thiessen are almost always uninteresting to read because their sentences aren’t a reflection of a curious mind or a curious thought process. Carelessness with facts is a functional necessity as is the reliance on cliches/talking points. It’s rather like paint-by-numbers.
Answer: Paris, France
Question: Where did the hairdressers of Wasilla not study?
http://crooksandliars.com/bluegal/open-thread-369
The budget genius and rising GOP star Rep. Paul Ryan condemns the dems for spinning the CBO report yesterday and then he goes on to spin the CBO report. Ryan makes a gem of an argument… he skewers HCR because democrats are actually funding this “new entitlement”.
Here’s what he told POLITICO:
“To get a jump on spinning the numbers for partisan gain, the House Democratic leadership leaked to the press a confidential CBO preliminary cost estimate of their health care overhaul. As a result, CBO was forced to make available this estimate for legislation that had not been released. This is the latest in a long series of abuses by the Democratic majority to jam through their health care bill by any means necessary.
Now that the CBO has released their preliminary estimate, let’s review what House Majority Whip James Clyburn is so ‘giddy’ about: it expands entitlement spending by roughly $1 trillion; it hits the American people with over half-a-trillion in tax hikes; it uses Medicare as a piggy bank with over half-a-trillion in Medicare cuts to create a new entitlement; and includes a number of egregious gimmicks that hide the true cost of the bill.
When you expose the smoke and mirrors and look at the reality of this legislation, it is clear that this bill will not reduce deficits and will not control costs. The American people cannot afford the costly consequences of this health care debacle.”
What happens in Rome stays in Rome.
“In his 24 years as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, from around the world, all cases of grave sexual offences by clerics had to be reported, under strictest secrecy (”secretum pontificum”), to his curial office, which was exclusively responsible for dealing with them. Ratzinger himself, in a letter on “grave sexual crimes” addressed to all the bishops under the date of 18 May, 2001, warned the bishops, under threat of ecclesiastical punishment, to observe “papal secrecy” in such cases.” http://ncronline.org/news/accountability/ratzingers-responsibility
All, morning roundup posted:
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/vice-president-biden/the-morning-plum-93/
I think a compelling argument can be made that allowing **** to serve in the military was causal in the advancement of John J. Sheeha to four star general. It was a tragedy which could have been avoided.