School gate cliques and the "playground mafia"; don't take these scary concepts too seriously...
Oh dear. It's started again. Hot on the heels of a piece about horrendous school mums in The Telegraph, today's Times offers us a father's view of all those awful parents you really don't want to - but have to - meet at the school gate. All I can say is, how very unhelpful.
If you have a child, it's very likely that one day they will go to school. This can be hard for them, and for you. It also means that you have to meet a lot of new people. But you know what? Those people won't all be bad. In fact, most of them will actually be very nice and you will automatically have something in common with them - living with school aged children.
People love stereotypes and yes, I'm sure that all school gates (like all schools and offices, and indeed the world) will contain different types of people. It makes perfect sense that you won't all get on. But it doesn't mean that you need to shiver or panic at the thought of early morning pick-ups or drop-offs. Just find one friendly face and talk to that person. You'll soon find that not all the parents innocently waiting for their children in the playground are part of a "mafia" or frightening "clique.". You might even find some new friends, eventually (I have).
In the Daily Telegraph article, one interviewee gives this advice: "Keep your head down, don't concern yourself with what other parents are doing, focus on your own child, no one else's. Leave acquaintances as acquaintances, don't try to turn them into friends."
I think that's more than a little negative, especially as advice to mums or dads whose children have just started reception and have seven more years to go! I enjoy having other children over: is that focusing on them?
Sending your child to school does open up a whole new world of competition, which I hate. But you don't have to focus on it. You can ignore the parents who make you feel insecure (and really, there aren't that many. They are probably insecure themselves and just projecting that onto others).
So, I would say don't walk down to the school gate negatively or in fear. You can ignore everyone if you like, but it may be more pleasant for you (and your child) if you try to make friends. Yes, it can be hard if you're shy (sometimes I think it's a bit like walking into a party and I have to take a deep breath before walking up to some chatting mums) but you may find you actually enjoy that little bit of socialising at the beginning and end of the school day.
NB Please come to our live Q and A tomorrow, where we will be talking about starting school and have a team of experts to answer your questions..
@Another Mum. I used to pick my brother up from school, and would marvel at how stupid some of the mothers were. One woman in particular thought a bend was the best place to park her people carrier, which meant the buses and other vehicles struggled to get past her.
Posted by: Cheesecake | 17 Sep 2009 15:25:37
Thirty years ago, I had the wonderful experience of going to collect my eldest from her (church) school, and as I approached with my younger two, all the waiting mothers on my side of the school gates moved, as one, to the other side. My sin? To have a child who had suffered severe brain damage during surgery in his wheelchair. That continued for some time with no one ever talking to me or even standing near me, until I allowed the children to walk home with others from the next road and saved them the inconvenience of our presence. It still rankles!
Posted by: Jan | 17 Sep 2009 12:08:41
Rachel - I don't get it. Why does anyone with more than one brain cell want to suck up to another human being, the way some of your fellow mums are doing to this Queen B (as in B for Bitch not Bee!). I just have never understood this behaviour. It's hard enough to understand in teenage girls, let alone apparently grown women.
If this B is so 'wonderful' you'd have thought that there would be an anti-gang, dissing her the whole time for being SO bloody wonderful!!!!
I hope you can find the 'decent mums' and start everyone questioning about why they are all sucking up to this horrible person. The power of Queen Bs is only in their fawning entourage - take the entourage away, and they are revealed as sad and pathetic - and nasty. All the Hollywood High School movies reveal that truth!!!
Posted by: Helena | 17 Sep 2009 09:24:18
Adults can bully too, you know. It's not something that people necessarily grow out of. There is a woman in my younger daughter's class who has chosen to blank me since the day we joined the school (in year 3). I have absolutely no idea why. She is the Queen Bee in the class and has a gang of other mothers who are desperate to be friends with her, and I have found it pretty dispiriting to be around these people. I suspect that she took an instant dislike to me when she discovered that my daughter is adopted. I sympathise with M and her autistic son, because being different in ways like this definitely leads to people ostracising you, and it's just a form of bullying. The good news is that there are plenty of other lovely people out there - sometimes you just have to look a bit wider to find them. I am not really friends with anyone in my daughter's class (she is autistic spectrum too and the other parents are definitely wary) but so what - who wants to be friends with people just because it's convenient for the children.
Posted by: Rachel | 16 Sep 2009 22:59:33
@KM - yes i thought that's where this article originated from too.
ah well, what goes around comes around.
Posted by: oneopinionatedmother | 16 Sep 2009 21:56:06
Oh my gosh I read the times article and then your comments and to be honest I really felt you'd probably all overdosed on 'serious' tablets today, because I found the article written by the dad really quite funny. However, I have now just read the telegraph article and I am appalled!! Seriously I have never experienced this type of playgroung behaviour. I stuck out a bit in the playground because I was quite a bit younger than most of the mums and certainly in our group (yes it was a group but we weren't cliquey infact we were always keen to meet new people) the only single one but I made fantastic friends who many years on are still the closest, most loved friends I have. All I can say to anyone who has experienced negative reactions is try a different group, really most mums, in my experience, are just desperate for some adult, or non-workplace conversation!!
Posted by: monica | 16 Sep 2009 14:26:10
Gypsy
Going "ah bless" to a toddler who has scraped his/her knee purely for the reason of ingratiating yourself to another mum at the school gate (whilst making lots of eye contact) does seem a bit false and contrived to me. Yes it is a terrible and awful thing when little annabel falls over, but my two do it all the time but I wouldn't expect someone else with bags of "empathy" to butt in, however well meaning. A scrape on the knee is not the end of the world.
Maybe the problem is that some cliquey mums just don't have the social skills to include others in their conversation. You can tell the people who have been really well brought up because they are genuinely friendly and inclusive. You are assuming that these cliquey mums are all the same. Some are nice, some aren't. The ones that aren't can be very protective of their inner circle. People don't imagine this, it happens.
Posted by: M | 16 Sep 2009 13:47:38
M - really don't think that MoT was saying fake it. For me at least, showing sympathy doesn't have to be faked.
I mean, are you telling me that you've no sympathy at all for someone whose child is crying? I do - we've all been there and done that after all.
Personally I don't see why people go on about the whole clique thing. We're grown ups surely. If there are people who will actually blank you and act like high school students in the playground because you're not in their clique - well what's the point? That only works when you're at high school because you're desperate to be in with the 'cool' kids. Me, I'm quite happy to be the mad colonial who strikes up a convo with whatever parent I'm standing next to at the time. It might be the only adult convo I get all day!
Posted by: gipsy | 16 Sep 2009 11:52:04
Mum of two - look sympathetic if a little one is crying - that means being a phoney. Some people just can't be a bit phoney however hard they try! My sister does it and I know she's being false as hell.
And there's nowt wrong in being a loner, there's room for all sorts in this world. We can't all be chatty extroverts nothing would get done. Personally, I'm not a loner, I just find groups of mums who are pally a bit intimidating, particuarly the shouty braying ones.
Posted by: M | 16 Sep 2009 11:21:07
Totally agreed though about schools needing to communicate properly through a note, not hastily written up notes on a board or verbal instructions that are forgotten by half the children. Many families have more than one person picking-up (grandparents, other parents, childcarers) and it all falls apart if vital messages aren't passed on.
Posted by: mumoftwo | 16 Sep 2009 11:16:23
My children have been to different primary schools recently and I've found that the playgrounds have varied enormously, from really unfriendly to very welcoming. However, you do have to look up, meet people's eyes, chat to the person on their own, look a bit sympathetic if a little one is crying etc. You won't make even aquaintances if you dash in not looking at anyone and dash out again for fear of looking like a loner (kind of obvious really). It is hard if you are a working mum or dad and don't have time to stop, but I've changed my hours so I do all one school run and not the other and that's given everything more consistency and means I have time to say hello to a few people.
As for men at the school gates, the same rules apply. If you look unfriendly, don't say hello, and just pay attention to your own child, you won't be well-received. I've only met one dad like that. Most are happy to chat, or just say 'hello' and in many areas, dads at the school gates are not particularly unusual and this is not in a 'trendy' area.
Posted by: mumoftwo | 16 Sep 2009 11:14:14
Well whether or not it's true, it does feel like that sometimes. I'm not in a clique and I'm rubbish at small talk. My son is mildly autistic so he never gets asked on playdates. I have tried to get him one with a boy he liked but was rebuffed by a snooty mum who probably thought autism was catching. I think he gets on with the other children though because he is fairly sociable, but not very good at expressing himself verbally. I think it's hard sometimes when mums gang together in a clump and they all seem to know each other very well etc. but I don't begrudge them that. It's just not me. I like being independent and doing my own thing, thinking my own thoughts. Even though I am a FTM I have other things in my life that I can focus on. And I don't get the middle class obsession with driving those horrid tanks. They're a menace. And as for the parties don't get me started. Why are there so many of them, they just eat up the weekends?
Posted by: M | 16 Sep 2009 10:24:16
This whole subject is an interesting article of a media pandemic.
A very ironic, tongue-in-cheek article on Mumsnet was pilfered by the Daily Mail, who repeated the sarcastic comments about mums judging each other at the school gates as if they were meant seriously.
Then other papers have picked up on it.
It's got very little to do with the reality of mums, working or otherwise, nationwide.
Posted by: KM | 16 Sep 2009 09:41:18
What Sarah (and probably other women posting) is missing is that the post in The Times was written by a man, for men.
It is unfortunate that men now often feel very uncomfortable in a primary school context - its primarily a women only environment, as we risk the threat of some overprotective mum making some comment if their child comes too near to a 'strange' man.
And thats the other part of the problem. Usually as the children are of the same age, over the years the mums have come into contact a fair bit at ante-natal, toddler groups and preschool....so they get into huddles and start chatting away. Except for the still rare home dad, this isnt the case...so you are excluded from this. And in all honesty going over to make conversation is worse than a teenager at a school disco...after all 'what the h*** are you after?' is the thought you know you'll raise.
So it does indeed just turn into keep your head down, make sure you avoid all contact with any child but your own, and get our asap without causing an issue. And I say that as a dad who doesn know quite a few of the mums via preschool. How many of you stop chatting to your friends in the morning and go over and talk to a strange man standing by himself waiting for his child?
It is unfortunate that men now feel that we are seen as a threat anywhere to do with children, risking being demonised, and are allowed into schools on sufferance as we need to go collect our own children there. Thats where society has moved to, thats the way it is. As women you wont understand that...you are after all the ones 'in the clique'.
Posted by: Nik | 16 Sep 2009 09:27:19
I agree with Another Mum. Mums whose working patterns mean they can't get to the school gates get a raw deal.
When my youngest went to primary school, the teacher had a habit of giving out critical information as she let the class out - 'ties tomorrow!' or 'bring a paper plate for the class snack!' and not following it up with a note. Result? Daughter feeling angry, crestfallen or excluded because the after-school club supervisor didn't get the message. It took a while and lots of tears (some mine) before the message got across.
And the irony? The teacher was a mother with small kids herself.
Posted by: Helen F | 16 Sep 2009 08:07:04
At my son's primary school, the working mums were too busy juggling to get into little cliques - but would happily cover for each other, which was nice.
The yummy mummies were quite scary and over-groomed, and many looked down on the working mums - but we were too busy to notice.
The best were the copious numbers of YMs in 4x4s which they couldn't drive properly, who would come right up to the entrance to the school rather than the little car park further down, but couldn't reverse out and would knock over the low retaining wall trying to do a 3-point turn .. and then scrape all down one side of the car to extricate themselves ..
Posted by: Another mum | 15 Sep 2009 16:55:45
This is just ridiculous. Maybe mafias exist in some nasty schools (because if the mothers are like that, the children will be as well, and the school will be a Bad School whatever the teachers attempt!), but if they do, take your child out. Or, find the nice mums - who will all be hiding, just like bully-victims all do, and club together to beat off the bitches.
Speaking personally, I've met some of my closest friends at the school gate! Not a bitch in sight.
Posted by: Helena | 15 Sep 2009 13:53:29
Great to hear some sense on this subject. People often dismiss as cliques groups of friends who happen to be chatting. It's only if they actively exclude others that they could be properly described as cliques.
I've made some lifelong friends at the schoolgates. I also make a point of talking to people standing on their own looking lost. I've never found any of this political - just human.
Posted by: Patricia Carswell | 15 Sep 2009 13:50:13
I couldn't agree more. Some of these other parents will become part of your vital support network - and you part of theirs. Like in any walk of life, some you'll like and others less so, but learning tolerance and to get on with others are skills our children are busy learning at school (or should be), and so should we parents.
Posted by: MakeItMum | 15 Sep 2009 13:37:37