Anti-dhimmitude at Dell. Why? Well, it would be perfectly clear to everyone that a Christian who left his work station during work hours to go to church should be held responsible. This is not a question of the infringement of rights unless these employees had arranged with Dell for a work schedule that included time off for prayers, and then Dell reneged. But I doubt that was the case. Otherwise, they contracted with Dell to be on the job from a certain hour to another, and they should hold up their end of the deal. From the Tennessean, with thanks to TwoStellas:
Work or pray.Faced with that difficult decision, Abdi H. Nuur removed his employee badge and walked away last month from his forklift driver's job at Dell Computer's Nashville plant. He and 29 other Somali Muslims say they were forced to choose between their faith and their employment.
Now the Metro Human Relations Commission is trying to intervene in a
confrontation that pits American-style production quotas against Islam's requirement that its adherents pray daily when the sun sets.''They told us that we cannot pray at sunset,'' Nuur said. ''They told us that we would have to wait for our break.'
Nuur apparently never considers conforming to the rules of the job he has taken, but rather expects his employers to accommodate him.
According to leaders of Nashville's Somali community, Dell has been one of several area employers with strong histories of accommodating Muslim workers.But that arrangement apparently came to an abrupt halt in February, with the firing of 30 workers. They were employed by Spherion, a labor agency that provides workers for Dell's Nashville operations, according to David Perez, the compliance officer for the Metro Human Relations Commission.
A Dell spokesman declined to comment about the cases, saying the company had not received a specific complaint.
''Dell values diversity in all areas, and that includes religious beliefs,'' Dell spokesman Mark Drury said. ''The company's practice is to accommodate religious beliefs, so long as the accommodations are reasonable, don't disrupt business operations and are consistent with our policies on operating a respectful workplace....
The Metro Human Relations Commission hopes that it can help mediate a solution. ''It would be great if they could reach a conciliation agreement,'' said compliance officer Perez. He said a Dell manager had phoned him Tuesday to inquire about the situation. Spherion, he said, had yet to respond.
Meantime, he is drawing up a complaint to be filed with Metro government, based on the report from the Somali workers. If a commission panel finds the claims point out a violation of Metro discrimination codes, the companies could be fined.
The workers also could file discrimination complaints with state and federal agencies.
A similar federal complaint turned into a lawsuit that was resolved last year in favor of a local manufacturer.
It is becoming increasingly obvious that Muslim organizations are actively looking for excuses to sue. Sue the factory, sue the government, sue anybody who objects. And local and national authorities don't seem to be getting good advice on how to deal with this.
I'd heard that the prayer can be moved to fit in round work etc anyway, so this is politically motivated rather than religious.
But even if it was religious, it's ridiculous to allow it. What's to stop anyone inventing a religion that requires them to surf the internet when they should be working.
Talking of which..
Bye.
Dell will be forced to hire them back, pay a settlement and back pay, issue an apology and set up an on-site prayer room.
Bet on it.
Good reason not to hire muslims in the first place.
Looks like Dell just became a better company.
DUDE I'M GETTING A DELL
While the Ontario Government considers a report that recommends that Shariah be allowed in settling family disputes under the Arbitration Act, a Quebec Cabinet Minister took a strong stand against letting the Shariah into Canada. According to an article in today's Montreal Gazette entitled
"Keep Islamic law out of Canada, Quebec politicians urge:
Minister suggests province reject Muslim immigrants who favour system",
It's encouraging to see that at least some politicians in Quebec aren't overcome by the same political correctness that makes them afraid to defend traditional Canadian values when they conflict with the new state religion of multiculturalism.
investor_relations@dell.com
1-800-WWW-DELL
let them know you support
them they will be in for a shit storm
An employee of this company, whom I know, told me that company's claim is that these employees left/resigned from the job themselves; they weren't fired. And now they're suing? The gall.
kiphavel@spherion.com
http://www.nashville.gov/help.asp
M. David Perez, Esq., Compliance Inspector
A native of Murfreesboro, Tennessee, earned his baccalaureate degree from Maryville College, ...
http://www.nashville.gov/humanrelations/staff.htm#staff
Well the shakedown at dell
Is going well doubt we will be able to contact the folks at dell and spherion
And give the them facts and our support
If anyone can find contact info on Mark Drury let me know
"According to leaders of Nashville's Somali community, Dell has been one of several area employers with strong histories of accommodating Muslim workers."
Let's see.. if 10 Jews at a Muslim owned business wanted to leave their stations at work to pray Maariv, could they? If 30 pagan's wanted to worship their monkey could they?
The first mistake is is to let it be known that you have a strong history of "accomodating Muslim workers." This is the "give a muslim an inch and they will take a mile theory" in bold relief.
Deferring to Muslim religious practice is to admit that you are not only a dhimmi idiot but that their prayer schedule trumps the needs of the company. So listen, we will cost your business valuable production time. If you want your business to suceed, let us pray and we'll try to accomodate you.
Ludwig von Mises, a true gentle man, wise scholar, thinker of the Austrian school of economics and mentor of Milton Friedman, Nobel Prize winner in economics, had said that a free people and a free economy are inseparable; the moment the government begins intervening in (for example) the ability of an employer to establish the terms of employment (pay, hours,etc), to establish with an employee a mutually voluntary employment contract, and to insist that the terms of the contract be adhered to as a condition for continued employment, individuals suffer, businesses suffer, the economy suffers, and the nation suffers.
If these Muslims did not have "prayer time" in their contracts, but took it anyway, they were violating the terms of employment; if Dell insisted that they fulfill the terms of employment, and they--the employees--didn't want to, they did what any employee in a free society can do--they QUIT!
The only ligitimate cause for intervention in business contracts is where such a contract involves the initiation of force, or where it involves fraud. Any other intervention is illigitimate.
These former employees have NEVER, not for one nanosecond, been "FORCED" to do or not do anything at any time during their employment at Dell. There has never been a gun held to their heads, threats to their families, or knives held to their throats. They have always had a CHOICE--to work or not to work for Dell. Just because they don't happen to LIKE something doesn't mean that force was involved; they are ALWAYS free to seek employment somewhere that volunteers to "accommodate" their religious practices.
The increasing number of suits because of government intervention into the private, voluntary, mutually agreed upon employer-employee contracts is a serious problem that is eating away at the productive fabric of nation.
Let's watch and see how much Dell, other employment opportunities, productivity, and quite possibly, the local economy, is made to suffer because of just another example of micromanagement by the government of employer-employee contractual agreements.
I have a Dell, and I'm proud of it!
You go, Dell!
Imagine the chaos a prayer schedule would cause at the workplace and school if the diverse religions could just stop work or pick up and leave to go to a place of worship. Nothing would be accomplished during the workday. Could this be a reason for the lack of productivity in some Muslim countries?
If breaks for prayer -- not a quick look skywards, but arranging a prayer rug so that it faces properly, performing required ablutions, removing shoes, and so on -- that all takes time.
One assumes that Muslims who insist on performing the five canoncial prayers, one of the Five Pillars of Islam, would not be hired as, inter alia, airline pilots (stopping for prayers) or air traffic controllers, anyone involved in surgery or perhaps medical care generally, and a great number of other occupations. And this would be in addition to those jobs deemed unsuitable for security reasons, such as airline pilots, air traffic controllers, anyone involve din surgery or perhpas medical care generally (how many Infidels at this point would feel just a bit uneasy with, not someone who is a tepid Muslim, but one who is real Believer treating those Infidels he must, at some level, believe is the Enemy?), and so on.
These former employees seem to believe they have a right to get down from their forklifts (no doubt leaving them right there in the middle of everything), take out a prayer rug, assemble with the likeminded, engage in Wudu-ablutions, remove their shoes, pray for a certain time, and then, finally, put away the rugs, put on their shoes, and resume fork-lifting, while a vast enterprise of constantly moving goods and trucks more or less comes to a halt. Sorry.
Reasonable accomodation is one thing. Given the circumstances, and the amount of the disruption,this was not reasonable.
Possibly the ideal solution for these employees is to be hired by a Muslim-owned, Muslim-run business. Then there should be no problem. And in such a case, the owner can not only accomodate his workers, but also increase the workday to make up for the time lost, so as to stay competitive.
Inshallah-fatalism has no place in a competitive economy. It may be soothing for some, but there is no reason why a particular company, or its non-Muslim employees, should be made to suffer economically for the behavior of those who see nothing wrong with repeatedly stopping work to pray in a most elaborate and time-consuming manner (this is not some whispered prayer, briefly and silently recited to oneself, possibly with eyes cast heavenward).
The immiscibility of Islam with non-Muslim ways, customs, manners, freedoms, attitudes, becomes -- in a kind of sinisiter Coueism -- more obvious, every day, in every way.
Go back to your middle east homelands, build your own economies, you can observe all your religious rules in your own land. Get out of our lands, it says in your book not to stay in the land of the infidel longer than you have to, you are not welcome if you don't adapt to our way of life. Get out.
I've always wondered how anything gets done with everyone stopping five times a day for ritual prayer.
These bozos need to get a life.
f.g.
I thought at first that this would be a problem putting the ACLU between a 'rock and a hard place' to defend someones prayer. But seeing as how the 'god' of Islam is a man-made pagan entity and has nothing to do whatsoever with Christianity then the ACLU can jump right in there.
Kleo in Anderson, Ca.
Can't say I didn't expect this .
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2005/03/11/muslim_group_aims_to_mediate_with_dell/
Muslim group aims to mediate with Dell
Dispute focuses on denial ofbreak for workers to pray
I hope DELL stands firm.
Where I come from taking off your work ID and walking out during the middle of the day with no permission to do so constitutes QUITTING your job. Certainly Dell can find enough non muslims to hire where walking off the job to pray wouldnt be an issue. Muslims need to understand that they are in the US now, not in the fairytale lands of the middle east where life screeches to a halt 5 times a day. The machinery at many plants CANT be shut down, it needs to keep running, and needs a certain amount of personal running it. And think of what it would mean if the laws were changed and all businesses were forced to observe the muslim prayer schedule. What would that mean for muslims who are nurses, firemen, police, doctors, insert any essential service person, certainly allah doesnt wait for surgery, robberies, fires, illness...these muslims will cry for their "rights" as well.
Perhaps the solution is for EVERYONE to cry for their religious rights, christians can speak with their God at any time, therefore anytime a christian needs to speak with their God they should be allowed to leave work and do so. Once the "religious freedom from work" snowballs out of control they will have to put the stop to the madness for all, especially muslims.
hope DELL stands firm.
Posted by: miira at March 11, 2005 06:54 PM
They won't. Even if they try, either the ACLU or the politically correct gestapo will intervene on behalf of the Somalis, who have multi-minority status. They're a non-white, ethnic and religious minority. That elevates them to the status of royalty and when this is over, they won't need their paltry jobs at Dell.
Dell will be sued for racial, religious, and ethnic discrimination which are federal offenses. Dell will be crucified over this and the real issue of employees refusing to abide by company policies will be completely ignored.
I can't imagine why Dell hired them in the first place; they should have known better. This should be a lesson to all employers---DON'T HIRE MUSLIMS.
Since muslims voluntarily segregate themselves from mainstream society and live in isolated enclaves that are replicates of their homelands, they should work in them too. Why not make these Islamic edens all inclusive---live, worship, work?, go to school, bank, and shop in your lovely, infidel-free Islamic community. This would solve all of their problems and many of ours, and would be the next best thing to deportation. We could pretend that they don't exist.
That's why Islamic countries are cesspools of poverty; muslims don't have time to work.
I work for Dell's chief competitor, but I'm backing Dell 100% on this one. In a situation where you have tight customer commitments you have to get those trucks rolling, so the next trucks can get in and out. Time is critical, because the freight on those trucks often have a plane to catch. This would be absolutely unacceptable for our business.
Stand your ground Dell.
This link is from the CAIR site and has e-mail contacts for Dell contacts (pres, investor relations). Send them an e-mail! what happens in Nashville will no doubt set a precedent for Dell and a ton of other companies.
http://cair.com/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=223&theType=AA
The US is certainly expected to do an awful lot of accomodating for "devout" Muslims, who must be a tiny fraction of the US population. I can't think of any religious or ethnic group that is so aggressive or demanding.
The US is certainly expected to do an awful lot of accomodating for "devout" Muslims, who must be a tiny fraction of the US population. I can't think of any religious or ethnic group that is so aggressive or demanding.
Posted by: kelley at March 12, 2005 01:22 PM
It is absolutely DISGUSTING to see the accomodations, concessions, special privileges and considerations that are made for one of the smallest minority groups in America! With the help of C.A.I.R., muslims incessantly remind America that they are so special, so unique, so ENTITLED TO PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT. The more they get, the more they demand. Eventually they will FORCE ALL OF US to change our entire way of life to accomodate their vile religious practices.
Imagine a Christian child demanding special accomodations to pray in school. He would be shamed, isolated, and ostracized. His Marxist teachers would demand apologies from him and his parents, and he would be treated like a pariah by his peers. But when muslims make demands, the establishment can't grovel fast enough to appease them.
IT IS SICKENING. And as the Islamic saga unfolds, the ACLU is working tirelessly to eliminate all symbols of our Christian/Judeo heritage from the public square, and the frenzied multiculturalists elevate and romaticize third-world, uncivilized cultures and tout them as superior to our own. The new world order is forced DIVERSITY, hammering square pegs into round holes and insisting that they fit. If you aren't a member of a minority group, you are an evil oppressor who must undergo sensitivity training. The sad thing is that most unwitting people fall for this bullshit and sit through "diversity training" sessions in which a militant member of an "oppressed" ethnic minority endlessly rants and raves on the evils of the white race. The poor trainees walk out feeling guilty for being white. This insanity has already gone too far but I see no end in sight. People should flatly refuse to participate in these shameful, bullying indoctrination fests that are designed to intimidate and instill unjustified guilt and self-hate. They are often very effective.
Muslims complain about discrimination and persecution in America, portraying themselves as poor, pitiful victims of American racism and bigotry. If they continue their campaign to elevate themselves and Islam above all else in America, their lies will eventually become truths.
Muslims try to forcibly impose their religion and culture on every country they invade. They push, complain, whine, lament, threaten and demand. Then they wonder why they are despised.
Susanp:
Your post is spot on, as always!
But please stick to your guns:
'vile religious practices'-
I dare-say: They don't harm us when they pray! The fact is that it is NOT A RELIGION, but a vile, totalitarian ideology in the guise of religion. THAT is the message that we have to drive home.
Whenever we 'accept' that is a 'religion' people soften up and give them the benefit of the doubt!
Once we get popular support in the wider community this may be the sticking point! To expose their agenda means to make it clear to everyone that this is a 'political system'- worse than communism, that is trying to rule and regulate us...
Sorry having to remind you. If we win, that is the message even the last Hick in the sticks will understand.