He had fought with his wife because she would not become a Muslim and wear Muslim garb. "Suspect held in slayings of wife, baby son, two young nieces: 2 other family members are hospitalized, one on life support," by Kristen Schorsch, Annie Sweeney and Cynthia Dizikes for the Chicago Tribune, April 14 (thanks to all who sent this in):
Amid the sudden crackle of gunfire, a 12-year-old girl ran from a Marquette Park bungalow and fled along South Mozart Street. A gunman -- a relative -- took a shot at her and missed. Soon, she burst through the door of a nearby gas station, dressed only in pajamas, begging an attendant to call her mom.When Keshia Larry answered the phone early Wednesday morning, she heard her daughter speak these panicked words: "He killed everyone."
Police would later enter the bungalow and find a scene one commander described as "incomprehensible." Four people -- an adult and three children, all related -- were dead. The adult and the oldest child were pregnant. Two other family members were hospitalized, one on life support.
Police had soon apprehended a suspect, a Wisconsin man with a lengthy criminal record who was related to all those killed. Sources involved with the investigation said the man had converted to Islam several years ago while serving time in prison and had a dispute with his wife -- one of the victims -- because she would not adhere to his faith.
He told police that he needed to take his family back to Allah and out of this world of sinners, a source said. A police report quoted him as saying, "I wish I had more bullets. I wish I had more bullets."...
Family members said the suspect had been acting strangely. The wife's sister, Shirina Thompson, said the suspect had been talking about "going to Allah." Both Thompson and a neighbor in Wisconsin said the man had fought with his wife in recent days because she refused to wear Muslim garb.
The children killed were Jihad, the 7-month-old son of the gunman; his 3-year-old niece, Keleasha Larry; and his 16-year-old niece, Keyshai Fields, who friends said was four months pregnant. The nieces, both daughters of Keshia Larry, were found shot to death in the same bed.
The suspect's wife was 19-year-old Twanda Thompson. Family members said the couple were married just weeks ago and that Thompson was expecting their second child. She and Jihad were found in bed in a separate bedroom with gunshot wounds in their heads, police said....
Letisha Larry, one of the suspect's sisters, said her brother had been acting strange, carrying around the Quran and telling family members that something in the book told him to kill someone....
Police had soon apprehended a suspect, a Wisconsin man...
...................
"A Wisconsin man"—surely, this is most salient bit of information about this Muslim who murdered his family because they were insufficiently Islamic in his eyes...
From Wisconsin—*that* explains it...sarc/off
".......something in the book told him to kill someone.... The book of hate strikes again.
What a waste of lives. So sad.
Wait for the "mental illness" defense to be trotted out, ignoring the facts above.
Sometimes the snake attacks itself...Especially if its been reading the Quran...
Gravenimage, at least in this story we are told early on about the Islamic angle -- in fact, in the very next sentence after the one about him being from Wisconsin. So the MSM seems to be making some progress; usually the Islamic connection is buried in the last paragraph of a story, after the continuation in the inside pages. And the Islamic connection is emphasized by the references to the gunman's prison conversion, his wife's refusal to convert, his appeals to Allah and the Koran.
So, at least one thumb up for the MSM on this story. It will be interesting to see what coverage -- and what spin -- the story gets elsewhere. As the local paper, and the source of the story, the Chicago Tribune goes into some depth. But how much will remain of the report in papers, and other media, elsewhere?
There are times when I feel bad and think I`m too harsh on muslims for criticizing their "religion" but then I remember how many of their adherents act and the feeling of guilt goes away.
In the 1978 film Piranha one of the more amusing lines concerning the presence of piranha's in the resort's swimming areas was "They're eating the guests, sir."
Americans are starting to catch on, at long last making the connection between the killing/treatment of innocents (as the term innocent is understood in Judeo-Christian thinking) and the behavior/actions of Muslims.
So the MSM may continue its deceptive habit of refusing to identity the name or religion of killers, especially when the mayhem has a "religious" dimension, but the MSM is fooling fewer and fewer. In this same vein, while the European press may describe the cultural enrichment personnel committing rampage on the native European populations as "youths" or "asians" (as is the wont of the UK press), they too are fooling fewer and fewer.
swami - since he was a convert, it's safe to assume that the victims were ALL kuffir (the wife def. was, per the story)
The long dead bony hand of Mohammad reaches through the centuries and kills more today. This warlord 'prophet' wanted an army of ignorant savages to do his bidding, and he got it. 1400 years later, the savages are still killing. So sad for that family who would not 'revert' to Islamic savagery, and was martyred in such a gruesome way.
To partially answer my own question about how the story is treated in other media, here's the account from the online Sun-Times (the Tribune's Chicago rival):
"As he ranted about his religious beliefs, a 32-year-old Wisconsin man went room to room with a 9mm pistol early Wednesday -- killing his pregnant teenage wife, his baby son and two nieces in a brick home on the Southwest Side, according to his family and Chicago Police. Wounded in the rampage were the suspect's mother and a teenage nephew, police and family said."
Photos: Four shot dead on Southwest Side
caption to one of the photos: "Police on the scene where four people were found shot to death and two more were found injured in an apparent domestic shooting on the Southwest Side."
Follow-up article: "Shooting suspect has history of minor crimes."
This article has info about his prior arrests, and his serving time in Wisconsin.
So, in the other hometown paper, the Islamic connection is missing entirely. The only hints are that the son's name in Jihad, and that the gunman "ranted about his religious beliefs." Otherwise, it was just another "domestic shooting" as though it was about his drinking too much, or her running up too many bills on the charge cards.
Perhaps the print version of the S-T mentions the Islamic angle, but I doubt it.
Are we shocked ??? Offcourse not ........this is Islam .in action ..........enjoy the smell of dead carcasses
There was 9-11
There was this:
John Allen Muhammad, a spree killer from the United States, with his younger partner, Lee Boyd Malvo, carried out the 2002 Beltway sniper attacks, killing at least 10 people. Born as John Allen Williams, Muhammad joined the Nation of Islam in 1987 and later changed his surname to Muhammad. Drawings by Malvo describe the murders as part of a "jihad."
(from wiki)
REMEMBER: The blood always flows where the muhammadan goes.
(...and nobody knows like me!)
=======
And no, I don't hate Muslims, but I do hate muhammadans.
"I wish I had more bullets. I wish I had more bullets."...
Now that is not in the Qur'an.
Letisha Larry, one of the suspect's sisters, said her brother had been acting strange, carrying around the Qur'an and telling family members that something in the book told him to kill someone....
Apparently there is something in the Qur'an.
Now I know that there is permission in the Qur'an for infanticide, and, of course, everyone knows that a Muslimah is just the property of her husband, but can one of the members of our taquiyya group help us out and tell us exactly what aya tells believers they can be mass murderers?
Ebonystone wrote:
Gravenimage, at least in this story we are told early on about the Islamic angle
.....................
I quite agree, Ebonystone—this is not a bad article at all—it mentions that the murderer is Muslim, that he used the Qu'ran to justify his actions, and that he felt his family wasn't "Islamic" enough.
I just get so tired of seeing some vicious Muslim, acting in an entirely Muslim manner, described as a "Chicago man", an "Arizona man", a "Lancashire man", etc, etc—which is entirely meaningless and completely beside the point.
I think someone needs to be deleted and banned...
Wow! Someone forgot to stop typing numbers.
Anyway the spawn of violence and death continues on. I am wondering if people would get desensitized to the on going unabated violence that Mohammedans keep committing.
It looks like the zillionth decimal for Pi. Of course, it could be wrong. Yup, OT, delete.
Uh, pi?
Anyway, where's the apologists to tell us about how this guy is a misunderstander, this is an isolated event and there's no forced conversions in islam?
Victimofhistory? Anyone?
Ya know,ya coulda just said pi.
I doubt S Geography even has a clue what pi is. Yes, S, we notice that typing comments is slower now. Did you get a big gold star for that? And a crescent to go with it?
Ah, another misunderstander of Islam. Kegler starts making excuses for this murdering creep in 5...4...3...2...
FOX just broke the story that the dirtbag behind crashtheteaparty.org is one Jason Levin, a schoolteacher from Oregon. He is now under investigation by his school board as to whether he used school computers for his rants. I left FOX a comment to check on whether he also ripped off the "Spirit of '76" painting image for his logo. It is owned by the town of Marblehead, MA, and he would need permission to use it. It will be even more fun if he didn't bother to get it.
Great contribution, fool !
More coverage from the MSM, in this case from MSNBC:
"The shootings may have resulted from a domestic situation, said police spokeswoman..."
and: "...he heard voices telling him to kill family members, ..."
But: "The man also told police Allah told him to kill his family ..." and "[he] had recently been reading passages from an Islamic text."
PS: JW editors, please delete Geography's pi-to-the-umpteenth-place; all it's doing is taking up memory.
Gee, S Geography, you are so right! Islam does drive you crazy!
@SGeography
Kegner! Kegner!
(My post was in responce to geograpgy. I know what pi is, I hadn't seen battle of tour's post)
S Geography is simply just mad,
'Cuz Kegner/Abdullah got banned,
Marisol did spank him,
And we did not thank him,
And his takeover did not go as planned.
hahahha Abdullah is choked so he typed a bunch of numbers for us, lol. Very good Mikey, your number keys DO work!!
or, it could be code for wah wah wah?
I wrote a little program to parse through the tableau of numbers posted by SGeography above and convert them into letters. Then I ran it through another little app to cross-reference the letters to a database of the world's languages. It matched up in Korean and so I ran another little app to translate the "matched" text, only, and reproduced it below for everyone's edification.
Sorry for the length, but you understand, I'm sure.
Anyway, here I was thinking this might be a prank job by SGeography, but was I in for a surprise when I read it. Here it is:
"The pattern of violence and aggressive disregard for human suffering that is persistent in Muslim history and contemporary attitude toward non-believers reflects the message of the Qur'an, which is one of personal superiority and arrogance.
"In our modern world, Muslim dominance is characterized by the oppression and discrimination of non-Muslims, while Muslim minorities within larger societies are distinguished by varying degrees of petulant demand, discord and armed rebellion. Few Muslims are uncomfortable with this blatant double standard, in which Islam either plays the victim or unapologetically victimizes others, depending on its position of power - and the reason is obvious.
"Islam is a supremacist ideology in which the role of non-believers is subordinate to the position of Muslims. Those who resist Islamic rule are to be fought until they are fully humiliated and forced to acknowledge their inferior status, either by converting to Islam or by paying a poll-tax and otherwise accepting the subjugation of their own beliefs.
"There is simply no other religion on earth that draws such sharp distinction between its own members and others, or spends as much time condemning and dehumanizing those who merely choose not to follow its dogma.
"So much about Islamic terrorism and the general indifference of the broader Muslim community toward the violence makes sense only against this dual nature of Islam. Yes, the apologists are correct in saying that Islam teaches love and kindness, but they fail to add that this applies only to the treatment of those within the Muslim community. Loyalty to one's own identity group is valued above all else and empathy for those outside the faith is optional at best - and even explicitly discouraged in places.
"If this is a "misunderstanding" of Islam by modern-day "radicals," then it is an error that the founder of Islam made as well. In Muhammad's time, non-Muslims were put to death merely for speaking out against the new religion and its self-proclaimed prophet. Likewise, the Jews of Qurayza were summarily rounded-up and executed on Muhammad's order, even though they had not even fought in battle. Since the life of a non-Muslim is cheap, actual physical harm to a Muslim is not necessary to justify murder according to the example of Muhammad.
"The Qur’an meets every criterion by which we define hate speech. Not only does the message inspire loathing and disregard for others, but the text mandates the superiority of Islam, even if the means of establishment are by force.
"In his later years, Muhammad directed military campaigns to subjugate other tribes and religions, "inviting" them to Islam at the point of a sword and forcing them to pay tribute nonetheless. He set in motion the aggressive military campaigns that made war against all five major world religions in just the first few decades following his death.
"Islam incorporates the ultimate devaluation of non-Muslims in the most obvious way by teaching that while a Muslim may be punished with death for murdering a fellow Muslim (Bukhari 83:17), no Muslim can be put to death for killing a non-Muslim (Bukhari 83:50). The Qur’an’s "Law of Equality," which assigns human value and rights based on gender, religion and status, is the polar opposite of equality in the sense intended by Western liberal tradition, which ideally respects no such distinction.
www.TheReligionofPeace.com
Haha ha ........this is ISLAM .and this is what muhammed taught them ...........???? this is a special moment ........to see a muslim scum bag spam a website .because he doesnt like the TRUTH ...wow TRUTH does scare muslims doesnt it .........??? :)) OYE MUSLIM ..........great job ..thank you ...........wonderful job..to remind us of your hollowness
What is that cr*p up above by "S Geography?"
Who is that - Psycho Ab Mik? Or some other Mohammedan troll? Perhaps Doug Stuper! lol
As tanstaafl commented: "Gee, S Geography, you are so right! Islam does drive you crazy!"
Exactly!
For those who are interested, the comment above by "S. Geography" looks like "A Million Pieces of Pi" by Scott Hemphill, a freeebook I edited in May of 2000.
As a project, it was mildly challenging. Most importantly, it was essential to be mindful of production costs, so my suggestion to eliminate the standard comma at every third digit was welcomed with glee by the printing company's bookkeeper and the typesetter was beside himself in relief at not having to order another 1600 pounds of cast lead commas (333,333 commas in all) or unload them from the truck when they were delivered.
In the ordinary course of events, one reads aloud from a book, using the commas as a spacing mark for breathing. Leaving the commas in would have necessitated the reader hyperventilating and probably passing out before the middle of the first page, so all concerned felt the ommission was justified, but then we were faced with the conundrum of the reader not having visual breathing cues and possibly self-asphyxiating. It was decide to include a warning not to read the text aloud or to move one's lips while reading to avoid physical injury.
We did get in touch with the Guiness World Records people about establishing a record for reading a very long string of numbers, but they eschewed involvement, stating that the parameters of the task were simply inhumane, that to compel any sentient being to such inane activity constituted extreme cruelty somewhat similar to being forced to read the Qur’ân while being force-fed sand-encrusted raw bacon.
Of course, it would have been a tragedy if I had misplaced a digit, or heaven forbid, skipped a page. Fortunately, the project specification did not require my finished editing to be absolutely accurate (like who really cares), but I did adhere to the highest standards of craftsmanship and feel that the mission was accomplished with no discernable inaccuracy.
Mr Hemphill was profusely grateful for my almost Promethean labor and thanked me profusely, apologising that he had left his checkbook at home, but would mail me the charges at his earliest occasion. He is probably still searching for his postage stamps.
Very cool Yankel-
As a kid I loved secret messages.
That's how many people that have died under islam, conservatively ...
lol good one champ!!
You guys can go ahead and make fun of poor S Geography, but remember as our Prez Osama sez it was Islamic Scientists who invented mathematics. And he went to Harvard. And Columbia.
*** Tabari 1:236 ***
Allah created two cities out in space, each with ten thousand gates, each 6 kilometers distant from the other. By Allah, were those people not so many and so noisy, all the inhabitants of this world would hear the loud crash made by the sun falling when it rises and when it sets. Gabriel took me to them during my Night Journey from the Sacred Mosque [the Ka'aba] to the Farthest Mosque [the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem]. I told the people of these cities to worship Allah but they refused to listen to me.
No wonder our born Moslem Prez is shutting down our space program. Big trouble out there.
I think this utterly baffling attack on a family is a matter of mental illness and is an isolated incident.
Sure it is. It's just like all the others.
http://nodhimmitude.blogspot.com/2008/08/utterly-baffling-hammer-attack-on-nine.html
Just imagine for a moment how differently the West would've acted towards Islam if it was seen (more accurately) as a pandemic such as a deadly strain of H1N1 virus that was also highly contagious, than a religion.
Those who carried the diseased would be immediately barred from entering the country. Those who had it here would be quarantined from society. The rest of us would be inoculated from this disease and if it wasn't curable we'd make sure the the infected were separated from the non-infected till they expired.
Islam really is a virus-of the mind. Once it takes hold, it turns ordinary humans into mass murderers, rapists, pedophiles, hate/war mongers and terrorists just like the original diseased rabid dog prophet Mahound.
The slaughter of innocents will keep going until our ignorance of Islam has been eliminated and we act to stop it. While their deaths are tragic, its even worse that they were infidels, since it means less of us sane people and more Mahoundians in the world.
Pi is an irrational number. Says it all.
I hate being flippant when a small child has been murdered but this was the thought on reading that the baby was named 'Jihad'.
'...............Jihad is dead'.
AP is reporting that the murderer "heard voices." The Qur'an goes unmentioned.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/04/14/20100414chicago-gunman-heard-voices-to-kill-family.html
Muslim recruiters in prisons would seem deliberately to seek out the mentally deranged. That's not to apologize for the killer, it's spreading the blame.
Another newspaper from the windy city - Chicago Daily Herald
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=373033&src=143
journalism is pretty much in the "don't mention the ..." vein. His sister is quoted as saying that he had "recently been reading passages from an Islamic text". I think that it is likely that editorial paraphrasing has avoided the Koran word. Nowhere else is an I.. or M.. word used.
"Most recently, prosecutors in September 2009 charged him with disorderly conduct and battery after he allegedly attacked Thompson, 18 at the time, in a van in a Walmart parking lot in Madison. According to a criminal complaint, Thompson told police the man was angry with her, although the complaint does not say why. As she unloaded the baby stroller he allegedly grabbed her face and squeezed her cheeks, pulled her back inside the van and put her in a chokehold, the complaint said. He then got out of the van and started swearing at bystanders, shouting something like "What would you do if your woman was acting like this?" He eventually pleaded no contest to misdemeanor battery."
In other words the usual islamofascist woman as chattel thing.
"Allah created two cities out in space...."
Did they chew qat in those days?
I like pie!
yet, when considering mass-murder of relatives, including a pregnant teenager, my thoughts are not usually focused on spam pie for dessert.
Next thing you know, people are going to say he drank too much tea...
Any real reporters left that might want to inquire about his essay "What I learned in Prison"?
Who was teaching him? Was this part of the Saudi prison outreach program using the "noble koran" (sic)? Have any other graduates of the same program decided to express their overflowing peace in a similar way?
Welcome to the battleground of the prisons and the street gangs.
hmmm, any clues when he names a child "Jihad"?
OK folks, next time anyone hears of a child named "Jihad" it seems a fair response would be to call the FBI. Imagine: 'what a cute kid... what's his name?' "Jihad? Oh, I know another kid with that name too, that's so adorable! Is his middle name 'Jew-killer' too?"
Aside: how old is he and how long were they married?
oh, there it is...
Age 19, baby 7 months old, been together two years.
He is 32.
"I think someone needs to be deleted and banned..." - duh swami
Why are all those spammed numbers from a Mo Troll still up there???
Some of you guys are just wicked haters of Islam for no good reason. This guy has a mental illness that had nothing to do with Islam. Islam was his excuse - plain and simple. If this man was a Christian he could have used a bunch of garbage from the Old Testament to justify killing his family.
*I'm an atheist so deal with my anti-religious hate*
It's beyond insane that you Christians rag on Islam so much even though your Bible is filled with the most illogical insanity. Explain this verse, hypocrites:
II Kings 2:23-24
"From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths."
DO YOU REALIZE HOW STUPID ALL RELIGION IS? STOP PICKING ON JUST ONE!
"If this man was a Christian he could have used a bunch of garbage from the Old Testament to justify killing his family. "
Go ahead, give us the quotes.
lol, You're: Wicked, insane, a hypocrite, and stupid. Capische?
What rock did you crawl out from under? Stupid, wicked, insane hypocrite.
Oh, and your comment? A "bunch of garbage." Capische?
"Kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. Lie in wait and ambush them, seize and capture them using every stratagem of war." - Qur'an 9:5
Yeah, gee - why pick on Islam? Why "hate" Islam?! Gee, who knows???! It's a mystery!
"Some of you guys are just wicked haters of Islam for no good reason."
LOL! Dougie - is that you???!
"Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it Allah's." - Qur'an 8:40
Just look at that "no good reason!"
And this "no good reason!":
"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs in return is the garden of Paradise: they fight in his cause and slay and are slain." - Qur'an 9:111
Wow - Look how "loving" Islam is! And to think we bash it for "no good reason!" People - We must stop bashing Fascism and Nazism, too! Forthwith! "Channe" has shown us the way! Thank You,
Channe!
@ Channe
Here are a few quotes you can chew on.
There are more, lots more, where they came from.
Remember, these verses are mostly open-ended, meaning that the historical context is not embedded within the surrounding text - as are nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence. These verses are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Qur'an. They are commands from Allah.
Here is the first lot.....
Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
Qur'an (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
Qur'an (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.
Qur'an (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."
Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Qur'an (8:12) - " Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Qur'an (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."
As for obeying Mohammeds orders....
All around the world there is violence against Jews, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists.
In Egypt, Turkey, Thailand, Sudan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Yemen etc.
Most people don’t even know of the persecution of Christians in Indonesia.
About 10,000 Christians were killed in Indonesia between 1998 and 2003 and about 1000 churches were burnt down by Muslim mobs.
This violence continues today especially in Sulawesi where Christians are threatened and killed regularly.
There are violent attacks on Christians in Pakistan where dozens of Christians have been raped and killed and where churches and houses are being burned down.
In September last year seven members of one family were killed in anti-Christian riots.
Sikhs and Hindus are also killed, threatened and forced to convert.
In Iraq, 700 Christians, including bishops and priests, have been murdered and 61 churches have been bombed during the past seven years.
More than 4,000 Christians have fled Mosul because of attacks by Muslims.
Militants are killing Buddhists in Thailand's Muslim-majority south.
Dozens of Christian Copts are being killed in Egypt and churches are being attacked.
Girls are being raped and forced to convert.
Since 2006, five Christian men have been killed in Turkey because of their beliefs.
Churches are firebombed in Malaysia because some of the large Muslim nation’s Christians were using the word Allah to describe God.
Hundreds of Christians, church leaders and Christian missionaries have been killed and abducted in recent years in the Philippines.
Between 1955 and 1972, one and a half million Sudanese Christians and animists were killed by the Islamist government of Sudan
The killing has intensified in recent years.
More than 500 Christians were killed in Nigeria, women and children included.
The list goes on and on and on....
Some of you guys are just wicked haters of Islam for no good reason.
You want more reasons?
Channe is a Mohammedan troll. Don't waste your valuable time.
There you go, taking passages out of context, choosing passages that have been abrogated (al-naskh wa al-mansukh), not reading it in the original Hebrew or Aramaic ...
Seriously though, the Old Testament has very little to do with Christianity, and that is something that Muslims never seem to understand when they trot out the "Tu quoque".
"....not reading it in the original Hebrew or Aramaic ..."
:-))
Of all the pathetic excuses which are used to exculpate or whitewash Muslims when they cite the Koran for their wretched and often lethal misbehavior, arguably number one is the lame reasoning that there is violence in the Bible too. How many times is it going to take for the weak minded to realize that the Koran is a paradigm for action for all time and the Bible is not? That's why virtually everyday in the world Muslims kill or maim in the name of their religion and religious Jews and Christians only extremely rarely do.
I see William Gladstone was right.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/01/so-long-as-there-is-this-book-there-will-be-no-peace-in-the-world.html
'William Ewart Gladstone (1809–1898) was Prime Minister of Great Britain four times: 1868–74, 1880–85, 1886 and 1892–94.
'*He called the Qur'an an "accursed book" and once held it up during a session of Parliament, declaring: "So long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world* {my emphasis - dda}."
William Gladstone, re. the Qur'an: 'An accursed book'.
Letisha Larry (said) - 'her brother had been acting strange, carrying around the Quran and telling family members that *something in the book told him to kill someone* '.
I suspect that if someone told Letisha Larry what William Gladstone said all those years ago, about the Qur'an, she would be in complete agreement with him.
Hearing voices...'Allah made me do it'...When Allah says 'strike that man down, it's time to strike that man down'...But Mahoundians don't live by auditory hallucinations alone...Allah speaks to them in real time, right from the Quran...That's why this:::
"acting strange, carrying around the Quran and telling family members that something in the book told him to kill someone"....
It was not 'something' in the Quran talking to him it was Allah...If you know how to listen, Allah speaks from every page...he says a lot of stuff about killing people, in fact it seems to be his favorite subject...There's only one Islam, and that's Allah's Islam, you can read about it in his book, the Quran...But don't worry, Allah never speaks directly to kufr, so you won't get infected...
Do you notice the article does not disclose the mans name...I bet that's because it's Mohammad...
This guy has a mental illness ......
You are right.
Muslims are suffering from a folie à plusieurs or shared psychotic disorder.
"I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger."
.......that has EVERYTHING to do with Islam.
Some good info for Channe and other Muslims....Know the truth...and the truth will set you free...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/03/bible-and-quran-equally-violent.html
Good piece
I always wonder why Muslims do not see the contradictions...
(Unlees they are suffering from a folie à plusieurs)
"Christian Broadcasting Network spokesman and former presidential candidate Pat Robertson drew vehement and indignant criticism when he declared: “I’m very familiar with what goes on in the Islamic world, where our reporters are all over that area, and it’s clear from the teachings of the Koran and also from the history of Islam that it’s anything but peaceful.” Jerry Falwell and Franklin Graham also drew fire — as well as bloody riots in India and a call for their deaths from a Muslim official in Iran — for similar remarks. "
Don't say I am violent or I WILL KILL YOU!
Sudden Jihad Syndrome can strike at any time in the life of a Muslim...Divine Qur'anic inspiration can strike at any time too.....
Islam...feel the love?..
Kegner hasn't clocked in yet? Hmmmm... do we know who Kegner really is...?
kegner was banned by Marisol yesterday ...turns out he was Abdullah Mikail.
Who the hell is Abdullah Mikail?
Abdullah the mullah is fullah.....
What ever happened to Darcy?
Abdullah Mikail was a loooong time poster that got banned last December. Here's the thread where he got spanked by Marisol TWICE on this thread; so essentially he has been banned 3 times. Lets hope three's a charm ...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/12/feel-the-love-pakistan-harassing-us-diplomats.html#comments
..and Gladstone was leader of the LIBERAL party in the UK!
William Ewart Gladstone was, in the last half of the 19th century in the reign of Queen Victoria, four times Prime Minister (head of the UK executive branch of government) and four times Chancellor of the Exchequer (that's the UK equivalent of US Secretary of the Treasury).
Sorry, wish I could tell you ...maybe she's on vacation?
'*He called the Qur'an an "accursed book" and once held it up during a session of Parliament, declaring: "So long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world* {my emphasis - dda}."
Gladstone was 100% correct.
Can you imagine the world without Islam? My God the improvement. Automatically the world would be a better place.
@ Channe -
"Some of you guys are just wicked haters of Islam for no good reason."
No good reason? This man kills not just adults but his own infant and unborn child? That is 'no good reason' to you? You are a sick individual if you don't find this abhorrent!
"If this man was a Christian he could have used a bunch of garbage from the Old Testament to justify killing his family.
You are also a liar. Nowhere in the Bible - either OT or NT - is there any open ended commandment, instruction or example for believers today to kill unbelievers. You cannot produce it because it does not exist.
Perhaps your lies will work on other people who are to ignorant to know better, but not here. Not here.
"*I'm an atheist so deal with my anti-religious hate*"
I don't give a crap what religion you follow or don't follow. The problem is one religion - ISLAM. Why? Because it teaches hatred and violence through its texts and in the example of Muhammad's life. Deal with *that*.
"It's beyond insane that you Christians rag on Islam so much even though your Bible is filled with the most illogical insanity. Explain this verse, hypocrites:"
Not only are you a liar and an anti-Christian bigot, but you're an ignorant one, to boot.
Not only does the Biblical passage you gave not command/teach Christians to do anything harmful to unbelievers, it's not even an account of a person doing anything to anyone! Curses were called down, and bears did the killing, not people! How ridiculous are you, then?
Go spout off your anti-Christian hatred elsewhere. I've wasted enough time on you as it is. And the only reason I did that is for the benefit of anyone who comes here and does not already know the things I have said.
(You did make me laugh with that passage, though. Usually people pull out of context passages about wartime events, and in their complete ignorance of Scripture, they then try to twist it to say Christians are commanded to do the same today. But your passage doesn't even make sense in that way. Hilarious!)
Oh! And here I thought that Kegner was someone new, and wasted my time with him. Ah, well.
Channe ...
A better comparison would be between Jesus Christ: whom Christianity is founded upon; and muhammad: whom islam is founded upon.
Comparing these two men and the different lives they led is the real crux of the matter, not some verses from the Old Testament. Remember, the New Testament centers around Jesus Christ.
JESUS OR MUHAMMAD? Christianity or Islam? Compare and decide:
http://www.christring.org/shortseries/jesusormuhammad.htm
Channe,
You urge posters to stop picking on just one religion. In your post, you criticize Christianity. So to cover more than one religion, is there anything about Islam, in relation to the lead story of this thread, that you'd like to add in the way of criticism?
and look who is Tranzit director!
Harpal S. Kapoor
Director, Miami-Dade Transit
a muslim from India!!1
Oh dear, not another "Misunderstander of Islam"( they seem to be evrywhere don't they???)
Terry
I can hear it all now -------
" Your honor, my client had had an informal, verbal prenuptual agreement with his fiancee, which stipulated that she would seriously consider converting to islam after they were married. I think the court should consider her lackadaisical attitude about conversion before assigning all of the blame onto the defendant. My client's actions were impulsive and impassioned, prompted by unbearable feelings of spiritual betrayal; the young children and other family members unfortunately happened to be there at the time. I implore the court, its jurors and your honor, to view my clients actions not at as act of pre-meditated, mass homicide in the first degree, but rather as a pitiful display of lack of proper judgment and self-control fuled by his love for his religion. I ask that the lesser charges of 3rd degree manslaughter and reckless endangerment be deemed as appropriate in deliberating upon this unfortunate mistake."
Miriam Brenner wrote:
and look who is Tranzit director!
Harpal S. Kapoor
Director, Miami-Dade Transit
a muslim from India!!
.....................
Miriam, I guess this is for the thread on Miami-Dade Transit pulling the SOIA ads offering protection for apostates from Islam.
Kapoor is actually Sikh. This, from Miami Today:
"Harpal S. Kapoor was appointed director of Miami-Dade Transit in July...the turban-clad native of India and practicing Sikh is often on the buses and trains taking the pulse of the nation's 14th largest transit agency, which is Florida's largest."
http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/070816/story-profile.shtml
Still, your point is taken—perhaps the terrible legacy of dhimmitude in India is affecting his actions. Although the West is almost as bad in and of itself at this point.
In any case, what is "offensive" about these ads—the idea that someone might leave Islam? The idea that the threat to apostates is being aired to Infidels? Or the idea that an apostate might leave Islam and live?
Great question! I've been wondering where Darcy has gone, also.
I miss her sharp criticisms of those who accidentally betray their taquiya...or however it's spelled.
Darcy? Where are you?
"Great question! I've been wondering where Darcy has gone, also.
I miss her sharp criticisms of those who accidentally betray their taquiya...or however it's spelled.
Darcy? Where are you?"
Agree with you 100%. She's a "fiery patriot," as another poster here called her.
*
Miriam Brenner wrote:
and look who is Transit director!
Harpal S. Kapoor
Director, Miami-Dade Transit
a Muslim from India!!
Well, that just explains so much, doesn't it?
I miss Darcy, too :(
Well, like I stated earlier, maybe she's on vacation? I hope she comes back soon ...
I think she's sunning herself on a beach towel in Honolulu!
Brava Darcy!
I miss Darcy, as well—especially her passion and righteous anger. Hope she's back soon!
Channe:
"Some of you guys are just wicked haters of Islam for no good reason. This guy has a mental illness that had nothing to do with Islam. Islam was his excuse - plain and simple."
Channe, you are like many people who do not even bother to read here or comment. I do not know you, so I talk about them and us, or me.
People here are very well informed about Islam. Its teachings, tenets, sayings of leaders, acts of followers, often in the name of Islam. Worldwide. Many Westerners who defend Islam are not.
And Westerners only have the luxury to be fair-minded and impartial thanks to the Democratic system, which is what Islam opposes. Those who are informed about Islam know this and can prove this with myriad articles.
If people chide me that not all Islam wants that, even most Muslims don't want that, then I chide them that it is equally absurd to say that Islam lacks those anti-democratic aims, and that all Muslims are "innocent", NOT aiming for a Islamic dictatorial state.
There are sufficient texts, teachings, sayings of leaders, acts of leaders, all recorded here on JW and elsewhere to reasonably believe that: Much of Islam is contradicting many important essential democratic rules, values, like the right of autonomy for women (Your name indicates you are a woman? by the way I am a man).
So what you refer to as HATE is really mostly EXPOSURE. And it is simply not doable to expose a totalitarian ideology like Islam in only a friendly and respectful way. Nor is it possible that the Muslims will interpret it only as friendly and respectful even if the Islam-critics tried.
Many Muslims perpetrate bad acts, and it is not certain whether or not what this man did was Islam-inspired. But there are 2 extremes, not 1. There is the extreme to demonize and blame Islam for everything and tar all Muslims with the same brush. And there is the equally absurd, unreasonable extreme tendency to exonerate and protect Islam at all costs. Without much knowledge, out of a desire to protect "poor, innocent Muslims and their feelings" or to effect total Freedom of Religion.
Hence causing, even forcing people to trust an ideology that is potentially so dangerous and already so detrimental, to our Democratic rules and values, existence. As is amply shown here on Jihad Watch and on many other places.
So many people speak prematurely, arrogantly in combination with ignorantly, in my opinion, about hate-speech and innocence of Islam in cases like this one.