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Indeed he was, and that was just what was so worrisome about him. The Islam-Is-A-Religion-Of-Peace crowd has never satisfactorily explained how these spiritual quests to learn more about Islam end up as something involving AK-47s, and even more importantly, how they propose to keep that from happening.
"Father: Son Taliban, but not terrorist: Frank Lindh: Son was on 'spiritual quest' to learn about Islam," from AP, with thanks to libbysmom:
SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- After years of silence, the father of American-born Taliban soldier John Walker Lindh asked President Bush on Thursday to grant clemency to his son, who he says was wrongly maligned as a traitor and murderer."In simple terms, this is the story of a decent and honorable young man embarked on a spiritual quest," said Frank Lindh, swallowing back tears at times during a speech at the Commonwealth Club, a nonprofit organization.
Frank Lindh said that although his son had nothing to do with the September 11 attacks, they ended up adding dire consequences to his decision to join the Taliban, targeted by the U.S. after the 2001 attacks for harboring al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden....
"Being viewed through the prism of those attacks has caused this young man to be vilified as a terrorist and a traitor," the elder Lindh said.
Yes, he joined the Taliban, but those guys were pussycats apart from 9/11.
John Walker Lindh, who turns 25 next month, was 20 when he was captured by American forces on November 21, 2001, alongside Taliban fighters.Charged with conspiring to kill Americans and supporting terrorists, the younger Lindh avoided a potential life sentence in 2002 by pleading guilty to lesser charges of supplying services to the Taliban in violation of U.S. economic sanctions and of carrying weapons against U.S. forces. In exchange, John Walker Lindh agreed to withdraw claims of abuse or torture.
Until now, his parents have mostly maintained a public silence about the case, hoping to avoid a media barrage that could be detrimental to their son. But on Thursday, Frank Lindh shared baby pictures and other photos of his son during the presentation and said he is proud of his child.
Frank Lindh said he decided to break his silence because he hoped the story of his boy's journey from bucolic Marin County to harsh Afghanistan battlefields will help him get a reduction in his 20-year prison sentence. Last year, his son renewed his request for clemency, already rejected once.
John Walker Lindh, raised Catholic, was 12 when he saw the movie "Malcolm X" and became interested in Islam, his father said. A few years later, he converted to Islam in a mosque in Mill Valley.
With his parents' blessings, he headed to Yemen, and later Pakistan, to memorize the Quran and become an Islamic scholar.
To memorize the Qur'an and become an Islamic scholar. Combine that with the innumerable stories we have posted here about Islamic clerics being involved in jihad violence. The bottom line is that these are not likely to be men who don't know their faith. They know what the Qur'an teaches, and they are taking up arms accordingly. Peaceful Muslims must face the implications of that if it is ever going to end. The world is still waiting.
What did Frank Lindh think of his son's decision to pursue these studies?"It's a wonderful thing for an American kid to go overseas and study, to learn another language, to learn another religion. These are great things," he said.
Sure, it's absolutely the same thing as if he has converted to Buddhism and gone off to Lhasa.
In spring 2001, John Walker Lindh told his parents he was going to dodge the desert heat and spend the summer in the mountains of Pakistan. He did not tell his parents that he planned to cross into Afghanistan and join the Taliban army.The younger Lindh saw bin Laden speak twice while he was training in Afghanistan, but had no idea that he was involved in terrorism against the U.S., his father said.
What did he think he was involved in? Macrame?
On Thursday, Frank Lindh emphasized that his son was involved in an Afghan war, not a fight against the U.S., when the Muslim convert joined the Taliban army to fight the Northern Alliance. He noted that the U.S. once supported Taliban fighters when they were fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan."What happened unfortunately for John is that the United States made an abrupt change after the 9/11 attacks," Frank Lindh said. "We switched sides. John was on the ground there when that happened. He certainly didn't go to Afghanistan to do anything against America. He never fought against America. He never fired a gun at an American. He was simply rescued."
The idea that the U.S. abruptly switched sides and stopped supporting the Taliban after 9/11 is absurd. And so is the idea that John Walker Lindh had no intention of fighting Americans. Anti-American rhetoric among his friends and mentors was running high all through the 1990s. If he really didn't know what he was getting into, he was an astounding ignoramus.
Posted by Robert at January 20, 2006 1:59 PM
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Disgust. Disgust and fury.
Posted by: Hugh at January 20, 2006 2:23 PMI personally think that the prison sentence for a profound ignoramus should be at least as long as that handed out to those guilty of treason. In this guy's case, he should get 20 years for each, to run consecutively.
With a dad as dumb as that, what can you expect from the son?
Spiritual quest. In the modern western world, anything that turns its back on the Judeo-Christian tradition is called a 'spiritual quest'. Frankly, I think that if western ignoramuses want the type of spiritual quest that ends up joining the Taliban, we should meet them halfway with a little 'spiritual quest' of our own.
Posted by: religion_of_peas at January 20, 2006 2:37 PMWell, well. Here we have Brokeback Dad explaining in broken terms the blindest of Vision Quests, wherein his nut-ball son goes over the mountain, gets lost, and finds himself. Tranformed into a Moslem, no less.
Maybe our pinko friends in Hollywood can make a reverential movie about the whole deal and give one another awards for it and stuff like that.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 20, 2006 2:53 PMIsn't Usama Bin Laden on a spiritual quest?
Isn't Abu Hamza on a spiritual quest?
Isn't Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on a spiritual quest?
Isn't Ayman Al-Zawahiri on a spiritual quest?
Or How about,
Abdelkarim Hussein Mohamed Al-Nassar
Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah
Muhsin Musa Matwalli AtwahAli
Atwa
Anas Al-Liby
Fazul Abdullah Mohammed
Hasan Izz-Al-Din
Ahmed Mohammed Hamed Ali
Imad Fayez MugniyahSheikh
Ahmed Salim Swedan
Abdul Rahman YasinFahid
Mohammed Ally Msalam
Ahmad Ibrahim Al-Mughassil
Not to mention the nineteen 9-11 hijackers. where they not on a spiritual quest?
Or how about all the suicide bombers in Iraq, Jordan,Israel, aren't they all on a spiritual quest?
JUST ASKING,OR MAYBE I MISSED SOMETHING ???
Why have you all got it in for the father? His response to his son's troubles and stupidity are exactly what one would expect and do him great credit. It is a natural action for parents of any species to defend their offspring, even in the most stupid or hopeless of positions.
My parents loved me to distraction and I know that they would have acted in just the same way had I been as criminally stupid as young Lindh. I hope that nobody would have listened to them too closely, in the same way that I hope nobody will listen too closely if I ever have to defend any of my children.
However, I hope that parents in that situation are at least given the honour they deserve - they are doing what comes naturally and probably reacting in accordance with the force that drove them to become parents in the first place. You can't just stop loving your child simply because he/she has done something wrong. Parenthood doesn't work like that.
Posted by: Certiorari at January 20, 2006 3:04 PMAh, the baby pictures, nothing like baby pictures to prove one's innocence. Taken right out of Josef’s PR playbook, this is. All those newsreels of Adolph, flirting and teasing with Eva, playing with Herman’s kinder, and to get the tears really flowing, playing fetch with his dog Blondie. Ya know, that Adolph was just one regular bier getrinken mensch.
Posted by: Lisa at January 20, 2006 3:07 PMI wonder what this bedraggled sewer rat learned while lurking in that fortress basement chest high in sewage and waiting to ambush American soldiers? One thing his "spiritual quest" taught him was to pretend he couldn't speak or understand English when he was first caught...
It was only later that Mr. Lindh revealed he not only understood, but spoke English perfectly well, being raised in Amerika and all...
Please, spare me the empty gasps of incredulity and nonplussedness... It's so de rigueur!
Posted by: jsla at January 20, 2006 3:14 PMWhat a sad, dismal story.
A parent grieving for his son, casting about for excuses, looking for some way of gaining redemption for his offspring, the one on a spiritual quest.
Yet there are parents grieving for their children elsewhere, children that have done nothing to deserve the misfortune of being killed or maimed in a suicide attack or children who have died protecting the rights of others to follow spiritual quests.
I don't know this man, Mr. Lindh, but I do wonder to what level and extent he takes, or can take, ownership in his failed parenting. "Planned parenthood" is not about a decision to spawn. It is all about a plan to raise a child to responsible adulthood. The spiritual quest begins at home.
Posted by: Chatillon at January 20, 2006 3:16 PM"What happened unfortunately for John is that the United States made an abrupt change after the 9/11 attacks," Frank Lindh said. "We switched sides.
It's Bush's fault.
Posted by: ShortBoard Surfer at January 20, 2006 3:23 PMFrank Lindh should be happy his precious little spritual son didn't get his ass shot off by a US Marine and doubly so that he isn't facing the business end of a lethal injection.
Posted by: Big G In TX at January 20, 2006 3:25 PMTo hear his father tell it, Johnny and his Taliban friends, prior to 911, were all sitting around the campfire, roasting marshmallows and discussing bringing peace to the world. There will be plenty of sympathizers as the "Free Johnny Lindh!" movement gets into gear.
Posted by: John Sobieski at January 20, 2006 3:29 PMFurthermore, these execrable moral relativists raised a son whose soul was, apparently, empty -- one which Islam was happy to fill...
I know their type - children of the 60s -- willing to throw off the "shackles" of the deplorable record of their horrible forebears -- yearning, seeking, from among the "honest" cultures, the primitive ones who had not yet learned to lie cheat and steal, like their American of European descent ancestors had done so well -- The evil calumnies of the Whites! The evil depredations of the "Anglos". The horrid racist rapist colonialist imperialistic history of the buggaboo "West"! All of it had to be thrown out -- all of it discarded because it was, well, too horrible to contemplate!
Solidarity with the brown races who weren't tainted like they were! "Social Justice" because everything is caused by greedy capitalism!
I can hear it now: "Johhny -- we will raise you to hate everything we came from, everything we were -- you will be beyond that -- no country -- no faith -- no taint to hold you back -- you are a bird -- a spirit on a quest -- you will be pure!!!"
And look what it all got 'em... A filthy idiot, a dolt -- an empty vessel into which hatred and backwardness and lack could be poured -- an imitation of a human -- a blank slate onto which anything could be written by anyone with the intent and purpose to use this witless fool for whatever ends...
I especially love the early photo -- the one when this darling son was looking, doe eyed, into the camera, already deeply immersed in Islam by 14 or 15 or so... How did that happen in the first place? Why did that happen in the first place? This "kids" quest started sometime back about 40 or so years ago... even though he's "only" in his 20s now... His parents are utterly complicit in his wayward crimes and errors...
Posted by: jsla at January 20, 2006 3:31 PMJohn Sobieski
He'll be the next Cindy Shitcan. Her 15 minutes were up long ago.
Well, well. Here we have Brokeback Dad explaining in broken terms the blindest of Vision Quests, wherein his nut-ball son goes over the mountain, gets lost, and finds himself. Tranformed into a Moslem, no less.Maybe our pinko friends in Hollywood can make a reverential movie about the whole deal and give one another awards for it and stuff like that.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer
With crap radical right attitudes like that, you have the affrontery to query why Leftists and gays support the Islamists.
Just what we need, in a few years Muslims will outnumber us all over the world, and within the west we have phuckwads like you as recruiting posters for the Islamists.
Meanwhile anyone care to comment as to how the vast majority of converts to Islam come from the ranks of Catholics. The numbers are legion.
There has to be something in common,that is appealing, perhaps Islam is more rigidly uptight, and misogynist that many on the left claim that Catholicism is.
Meanwhile with your rant against gays and pinko's (why did you omit feminists) you have more in common with the Taliban than you do western democracy.
Posted by: Nariz at January 20, 2006 3:32 PMWhy have you all got it in for the father? asked Certiorari
Accountability. . . .Consequenses. It's apparent this aspect of child rearing was not incorporated during Johnny Taliban's childhood as Mr. Lindh is himself incapable of understanding this concept to this day. Perhaps Johnny Taliban's father (&/or mother) believed in self esteem trumping accountability. Such is the shame and deep humiliation he/they must bear today.
Posted by: justamomof4 at January 20, 2006 3:39 PM"Meanwhile anyone care to comment as to how the vast majority of converts to Islam come from the ranks of Catholics. The numbers are legion."
Got a link to that study?
A friend of a friend of my cousin said that he read a study that showed that the majority of muslim converts were gay cowboys.
Posted by: ShortBoard Surfer at January 20, 2006 3:42 PMJSLA:
I think your identification of "emptiness" as the main factor in Lindh's upbringing is highly apropos. It's exactly the source of this and similar problems.
Nariz:
Do you have or can you provide reference to study results that accurately track the demographics of Muslim converts?
Posted by: Chatillon at January 20, 2006 3:52 PMBy the way, ShortBoard Surfer -- I don't usually agree with the nefarious Nariz, but I don't welcome contemptuous references to gays here either -- You can certainly make your points without resorting to that, can't you?
Posted by: jsla at January 20, 2006 3:59 PMit is natural for any parent to defend their child.
However to turn on ones own country ones own culture, civilisation......
in the words of my mother who speaks no english
and made her feeling plain after the london tube murders
"IT'S LIKE MURDERING YOUR OWN MOTHER AND FATHER"
The parents of johnny taliban have obviously got no concept of right or wrong or Good and evil.
Regards
AI
jsla
My /sarc wasn't slamming gays, just hollywood. We're on the same side here.
Posted by: ShortBoard Surfer at January 20, 2006 4:08 PMI know...
Posted by: jsla at January 20, 2006 4:20 PMYou all know the old saw, "the fruit does not fall far from the tree." So, Marin County and Good Ol' USA type stuff aside, I wonder if young Master Lindh's father is as much of a Jew-hater as the son has to be (being of the Taliban and all)? And if so, did the younger Lindh get some of his hate filled ideas from the father? (or mother...but probably she's just a blob in the family).
Not having children, perhaps I'm out of this a little, but it seems to be that the parents of a traitor can both love their son and hate what he has become. Apparently, the elder Mr. Lindh has a lot of sympathy for his son's views.
Posted by: Seymour Paine at January 20, 2006 4:59 PMBy the way, ShortBoard Surfer -- I don't usually agree with the nefarious Nariz, but I don't welcome contemptuous references to cowboys here either -- You can certainly make your points without resorting to that, can't you?
Posted by: Malta_1565 at January 20, 2006 5:07 PM"What did Frank Lindh think of his son's decision to pursue these studies?
"It's a wonderful thing for an American kid to go overseas and study, to learn another language, to learn another religion. These are great things," he said."
Is this just naivete, or criminal negligence? This level of ignorance was perpetrated not only by the parents in this case, but also by academics, journalists, politicians, and media 'personalities' over the past 40 years. Churchill wasn't fooled about Islam. Nineteenth century scholars weren't fooled about Islam. And some (small percentage) of our contemporary thinkers had never been fooled about Islam at all. Why not?
Somehow, many of us in the west, pre-9/11, were fooled. And we had no solid excuses for being fooled. After all, we'd seen practically daily evidence on the evening news coming from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. There was the Rushdie affair which occupied the center-stage of our collective attention. There were reports of religious persecution in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and so on. How did Islam, of all things, get a free pass?
We allowed mosques to be built, seemingly everywhere, in our cities. We did nothing to adjust our immigration policies in light of the fact that Islam is first of all a nationality more than it is a religion, a nationality that is incompatible with, and aggressively opposed to, the values and laws of our own nations.
I don't buy the idea that 9/11 was our fault. I never have; the claim is absurd. Nevertheless, we can ask ourselves why we had our guard down to such an extent.
9/11 was also an 'intelligence failure' on the part of our society. Not just a failure in factual intelligence about Islam, but a failure in moral intelligence. A failure to understand and judge what was right in front of us.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 20, 2006 5:42 PMMeanwhile with your rant against gays and pinko's (why did you omit feminists) you have more in common with the Taliban than you do western democracy.
A simple factual reference does not a rant make.
And you're right. The unutterable worthlessness of feminism sits squalid at center stage for all to see in the vacuum of the cowardice feminists have exhibited once finally confronted with a real enemy. At least we can't smell their stink in the vacuum.
The natural alliance between Leftists and the Taliban is understandable in light of the values they share.
Doctor Howard Dean musta choked when he denounced the idea of negotiating with Osama. Hell, he probably wants to hug the guy and get all teary and stuff and maybe even a little weepy like the consumate globo-socialist politico who would attempt to nurse on the fist being punched down his throat.
Dr. Dean and Mr. Lindh: Kill 'em with looove. All progressive and englightened, oh yeah.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 20, 2006 6:04 PMHi APG:
Al Jazeera is covering the Bin Laden truce story (see link)
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8AB64A2B-6899-4F08-AD94-2DD5CD55DCBB.htm
They quote Howard Dean thus:
Democratic party chairman Howard Dean told Fox News: "You don't negotiate with terrorists. These people have killed 3000 Americans, there is no truce with al-Qaida, and there never will be. You can't trust them."
This is the way Howard Dean is being seen in the Islamic world.
Posted by: Chatillon at January 20, 2006 6:13 PMOne has to wonder about a father who is blind to the fact that his son picked a religion which requires said father to be killed.
"spiritual quest"
Well jail is the prefect place not much time to get off his Quest..
Johnny's Father needs to know he is lucky we didn't use our right to put him to death........
We have a right to Kill tratiors!!!!
http://www.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1997/iran.htm
January 16, 1997
Clinton-Approved Iranian Arms Transfers Help Turn Bosnia into Militant Islamic Base
The Mujahedin Threat
In addition to (and working closely with) the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and VEVAK intelligence are members of numerous radical groups known for their anti-Western orientation, along with thousands of volunteer mujahedin ("holy warriors") from across the Islamic world. From the beginning of the NATO-led deployment, the Clinton Administration has given insufficient weight to military concerns regarding the mujahedin presence in Bosnia as well as the danger they pose to American personnel. Many of the fighters are concentrated in the so-called "green triangle" (the color green symbolizes Islam) centered on the town of Zenica in the American IFOR/SFOR zone but are also found throughout the country.
The Clinton Administration has been willing to accept Sarajevo's transparently false assurances of the departure of the foreign fighters based on the contention that they have married Bosnian women and have acquired Bosnian citizenship -- and thus are no longer "foreign"! -- or, having left overt military units to join "humanitarian," "cultural," or "charitable" organizations, are no longer "fighters." [See "Foreign Muslims Fighting in Bosnia Considered 'Threat' to U.S. Troops," Washington Post, 11/30/95; "Outsiders Bring Islamic Fervor To the Balkans," New York Times, 9/23/96; "Islamic Alien Fighters Settle in Bosnia," Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 9/23/96; "Mujahideen rule Bosnian villages: Threaten NATO forces, non-Muslims," Washington Times, 9/23/96; and Yossef Bodansky, Offensive in the Balkans (November 1995) and Some Call It Peace (August 1996), International Media Corporation, Ltd., London. Bodansky, an analyst with the House Republican Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, is an internationally recognized authority on Islamic terrorism.] The methods employed to qualify for Bosnian citizenship are themselves problematic: "Islamic militants from Iran and other foreign countries are employing techniques such as forced marriages, kidnappings and the occupation of apartments and houses to remain in Bosnia in violation of the Dayton peace accord and may be a threat to U.S. forces." ["Mujaheddin Remaining in Bosnia: Islamic Militants Strongarm Civilians, Defy Dayton Plan," Washington Post, 7/8/96]
The threat presented by the mujahedin to IFOR (and now, to SFOR) -- contingent only upon the precise time their commanders in Tehran or Sarajevo should choose to activate them -- has been evident from the beginning of the NATO-led deployment. For example, in February 1996 NATO forces raided a terrorist training camp near the town of Fojnica, taking into custody 11 men (8 Bosnian citizens -- two of whom may have been naturalized foreign mujahedin -- and three Iranian instructors); also seized were explosives "built into small children's plastic toys, including a car, a helicopter and an ice cream cone," plus other weapons such as handguns, sniper rifles, grenade launchers, etc. The Sarajevo government denounced the raid, claiming the facility was an "intelligence service school"; the detainees were released promptly after NATO turned them over to local authorities. ["NATO Captures Terrorist Training Camp, Claims Iranian Involvement," Associated Press, 2/16/96; "Bosnian government denies camp was for terrorists," Reuters, 2/16/96; Bodansky Some Call It Peace, page 56] In May 1996, a previously unknown group called "Bosnian Islamic Jihad" (jihad means "holy war") threatened attacks on NATO troops by suicide bombers, similar to those that had recently been launched in Israel. ["Jihad Threat in Bosnia Alarms NATO," The European, 5/9/96]
Stepping-Stone to Europe
The intended targets of the mujahedin network in Bosnia are not limited to that country but extend to Western Europe. For example, in August 1995, the conservative Paris daily Le Figaro reported that French security services believe that "Islamic fundamentalists from Algeria have set up a security network across Europe with fighters trained in Afghan guerrilla camps and [in] southern France while some have been tested in Bosnia." [(London) Daily Telegraph, 8/17/95] Also, in April 1996, Belgian security arrested a number of Islamic militants, including two native Bosnians, smuggling weapons to Algerian guerrillas active in France. [Intelligence Newsletter, Paris, 5/9/96 (No. 287)] Finally, also in April 1996, a meeting of radicals aligned with HizbAllah ("Party of God"), a pro-Iran group based in Lebanon, set plans for stepping up attacks on U.S. assets on all continents; among those participating was an Egyptian, Ayman al-Zawahiri, who "runs the Islamist terrorist operations in Bosnia-Herzegovina from a special headquarters in Sofia, Bulgaria. His forces are already deployed throughout Bosnia, ready to attack US and other I-FOR (NATO Implementation Force) targets." ["State-Sponsored Terrorism and The Rise of the HizbAllah International," Defense and Foreign Affairs and Strategic Policy, London, 8/31/96] Finally, in December 1996, French and Belgian security arrested several would-be terrorists trained at Iranian-run camps in Bosnia. ["Terrorism: The Bosnian Connection," (Paris) L'Express, 12/26/96]
READ THE WHOLE THING THERE IS MUCH MORE!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THE LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP TOGETHER AND FIGHT THIS EVIL AMEN
This is the way Howard Dean is being seen in the Islamic world.
I think that any serious Moslem planner knows that --- even after the love and largesse ladled upon them by those RINOs George & Condi --- things are gonna get a whole lot sweeter when the Leftists take back over. Be just like old times with Slick Willie, except now it'll be his dumbass wife instead.
With what's happening between Iran and China, Willie having sold the Chinese the geometry to the silent propeller technology doesn't look so smart now. Looked like treason then, looks like a disaster now.
SOCIALISTS LEFTISTS PINKOS COMMIES LIBERALS PROGRESSIVES MOSLEMS ALL
On this the 25th anniversary of Reagan's inauguration, pbuh, how I long for a true conservative back at the helm. But is that feasible, what with the strangleholds in media, the permanent government, and academe? Have we been choked off from sustainable freedom, which our Constitution once worked to guarantee?
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 20, 2006 7:11 PMWhat an asshole.
Posted by: Salami, Salami, Bologna at January 20, 2006 7:25 PMThere should be a section in the penal code for criminal stupidity. Lindh's father would qualify, but I can't help but feel sory for his totally misguided views on the chain of events and his refusal to be a parent when it might have mattered. I believe he believes what he says, but in those dark moments, he must look at himself and ask, "what have I done."
Posted by: biorabbi at January 20, 2006 7:37 PM"Well, well. Here we have Brokeback Dad explaining in broken terms the blindest of Vision Quests, wherein his nut-ball son goes over the mountain, gets lost, and finds himself. Tranformed into a Moslem, no less."
"Maybe our pinko friends in Hollywood can make a reverential movie about the whole deal and give one another awards for it and stuff like that."
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer
Those who have posted that they are outraged at the father's comments are entirely correct. Lindh's comments were outrageous. They represent complete naiveté (and stupidity) on the part of the father. The man believes that his son was enriched by learning another language, culture and religion; it was "so American". As a gay American, I want to apologize for his stupidity. But you won't take the apology from me.
That aside, your "Brokeback Dad" comment did indeed constitute an attack on gays. You appear to have erroneously lumped all of us together into an evil camp. As I said, I can assure you that I repudiate Lindh's comments entirely. Saying such things should answer your amazement as to why many gays sympathize with the crazy Islamists.
Your words about gays and feminism would also lead a reader to believe that you want the same thing the Islamists do: the subjugation of women and destruction of gays. Is the Taliban type world one in which you would be comfortable? If so, it's not a Western world that you would feel most comfortable in.
Like any good cult, Islam preys on the weak-minded. See Lindh's son or the mentally defective suicide bombers for simpleton examples. One thing I'm sure of. Had he had normal parents, they would not have allowed him to convert(or paid for his travel to Yeman and Pakistan). Of all the great things a human can do or aspire to . . . it is such a tragedy to have a parent or son like this. Islam draws the weak in with the soft sell at first. But as the weak minded gets drawn in, the real Islam appears. Not a pretty sight.
Posted by: biorabbi at January 20, 2006 7:42 PMCan we please leave the anti gay rhetoric out of
this please? Pim Fortuyn was gay, Mark Bingham was
gay (and a Republican!) , etc., etc. So what if this
worthless little prick's father was gay? Should I
be an antisemite because of Noam Chomsky? Or maybe
anti black because of Harry Belafonte? Crap, Lindh
is a white guy. Damn those white people!
I don't feel pity for Frank Lindh. By all accounts,
he did a terrible job raising the little monster,
and while I understand how he feels now, and how he
wants to help his son, that train left the station
over twenty years ago. Not because he was gay, but
because he did a BAD JOB AT BEING A DAD. If he had
done better, tried to direct his son, anything, I'd
have a bit more pity for him.
I still think we ought to bring the chair back and fry his koran thumping ass all the way to hell.
Posted by: American at January 20, 2006 7:43 PMJohnny "Quest." That name's already been taken, and his central Asian sidekick was a perfectly nice boy... though rumors swirl about the real Johnny Quest's father and his associate seated to his right:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jonny-quest-1980s.JPG
Up to a certain point, the parallels are oddly striking.
Posted by: Shinoliite at January 20, 2006 9:01 PMOops. Meant to include this image with the above posting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jonny-quest-opening-title.jpg
Now the parallels are oddly striking.
Posted by: Shinoliite at January 20, 2006 9:03 PMOn a more serious note, to concur with Hugh's "rotten son/rotten father" assessment, one would have to expect an outcome like this when a kid is raised in such an atmosphere of moral equivalency: That is, the notion that people have done both good and evil in the name of every religion, so that must make them all equal... on the basis of selective anecdotal evidence. Sure.
But if various religions are alleged to be about the same thing and thus equally disposed to having a member commit evil, why might the Lindh's think their Johnny was somehow immune to "the dark side?"
"But he's a good person," they might explain. Not to mention that, in the equivalency universe, the very notions of good and evil are hard to pin down, except to further one's own interests. What some would call "evil," after all, comes from corporations, red states, and hurt feelings, and Johnny was raised in an accepting and tolerant atmostphere.
So there is no good and evil, just self-help programs called religions. And he's a good person because we say so, not there is no absolute good or evil; we're all fellow humans.
And so the circle goes around. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Posted by: Shinoliite at January 20, 2006 9:31 PMPenultimate line should say "because we say so, not because there is absolute..."
I'm tired. Can't no more do my language skills good anymore. :)
Posted by: Shinoliite at January 20, 2006 9:34 PMThe girls in Marin County have always been some of the most beautiful in the world.
The landscapes are glorious.
The beaches, romantically poetic.
The wine, smooth and superb.
The local culture, brimming with a plethora of decent possibilities.
And what does this Taliban-wannabe fool do?
Runs off for fleas and fanaticism in a foreign hellhole.
For being that damned stupid, I'd give him another 10 years!
(To think about what he superciliously scorned.)
Posted by: profitsbeard at January 20, 2006 10:17 PMWhere did the fascination with eastern religions come from?
The hippies of the 60's were just too smart to be fooled into thinking that western civilization was anything but corrupt and evil. The radical left loves to get all chummy with communist dictators, radical "freedom fighters", any alternative to the dreaded familiararity of America. America the oppressive ,racist, capitalist robber barons, unleashing their military and crushing all those little nations that just want to be free. All those sitars played by drugged up rock stars instructed Johnny's Dad to avoid western convention at all costs. Johnny's mind filtered out Christianity, the US Constitution, and western culture in favor of the Taliban. For the first time in his life, he has a purpose, a sense of belonging.
The far left will produce more Johnny's, lots of them. Perhaps even outproducing the neo-nazi's as the new source of anti-semitism. Like Hitler and Stalin, the extremes of right and left tend to meet as the twin polar opposites of the free world.
Where did the fascination with eastern religions come from?
Well, the West always been fascinated with exoticism and exploration. Add to that the collective non-wisdom bandied about in our schools that Western civilization is entirely a barbarous story of pillaging, burning, and discrimination, and all of our heroes who happened to be caucasian males were cannibal puppy-haters.
That sets up the notion that we need to seek the "wisdom" of less "corrupt" cultures to have a snowball's chance in hell of attaining meaningful inner happiness. This was genuinely the tone I remember in my "International Studies" classes in high school-- we must learn from Africa, Asia, and all indigenous peoples (largely poor, hungry, illiterate and fighting each other, last I checked) so we can fix all that's "wrong" with America. It reminds one of the saying, "If it ain't broke, keep on 'fixing' it 'til it is."
As far as Islam in particular is concerned, there's this analysis from Hugh:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/009786.php#comments
Posted by: Shinoliite at January 20, 2006 11:23 PM"Where did the fascination with eastern religions come from?"
In the words of Jesus,
24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
A father is remiss in his duties to his son if he fails to give him the tools with which to judge true or false, better or worse. A young man complained to my husband the other day after the boy had proven untrue to his word, "Well, there are two sides to everything." To which my husband replied, "Yep, there's the right side and the wrong side. After that, you're plum outta sides."
That was something his father should have told him.
Posted by: Rebecca JW at January 21, 2006 7:26 AMI defy any intelligent person to convert to islam if they have done a thorough study of the qur'an and of the life of their "wonderful" prophet,paedophile and murderer that he was.
I am not an islamic scholar but soon found that islam is something to be treated like poison.
Having lived and worked in Saudi, where the hypocrisy is palpable, and having seen westerners convert, I am left wondering about my fellow humans.
Thanks Robert Spencer for letting the world know the truth about this abomination that's called a religion.
Posted by: marilyn at January 21, 2006 10:17 AMKevin,
"Where did the fascination with eastern religions come from? The hippies of the 60's were just too smart to be fooled into thinking that western civilization was anything but corrupt and evil. The radical left loves to get all chummy with communist dictators, radical "freedom fighters", any alternative to the dreaded familiararity of America. America the oppressive ,racist, capitalist robber barons, unleashing their military and crushing all those little nations that just want to be free. All those sitars played by drugged up rock stars instructed Johnny's Dad to avoid western convention at all costs. Johnny's mind filtered out Christianity, the US Constitution, and western culture in favor of the Taliban. For the first time in his life, he has a purpose, a sense of belonging."
There is truth in what you say.
"The far left will produce more Johnny's, lots of them. Perhaps even outproducing the neo-nazi's as the new source of anti-semitism. Like Hitler and Stalin, the extremes of right and left tend to meet as the twin polar opposites of the free world."
What proof do you have that its mainly leftists that have, or will, join Islam? Why would 'reverts' not be radical Christians seeking "back-to-basics stricter" rules and "clearer guidance"? I tend to suspect the latter. How do you know that Lindh Junior was not himself incredibly conservative, and did not totally reject his father's (and culture's) morres? After all, one who accepts such a religion in time - not in haste, would have to have become aware of it's tenets. Such a person is not then a leftist. You agree, n'est-ce pas?
Cheers,
Kafir
Posted by: Kafir Nonbeliever at January 21, 2006 2:11 PM"emptiness" as the main factor in Lindh's upbringing
No; not merely emptiness. Emptiness filled with various parts of the nebula of PC Leftism (which includes New Age claptrap).
Posted by: Dr. Pepper at January 22, 2006 2:10 PM
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