While the British government kowtows to them, Muslim leaders in the UK are still in complete self-righteous denial about how the ideology that leads to terror attacks incubates within their communities. From the TimesOnline, with thanks to Josephnadir:
Muslim community leaders were contacted by the police and Government officials early this morning as the first statements were released to the press.Khurshid Ahmed, leader of the British Muslim Forum was rung by a chief superintendent from the Metropolitan Police and a senior official from the Department for Communities and Local Government just before 7am to be told the arrests had taken place.
The police also contacted Dr Muhammed Abdul Bari, General Secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain, at 6.54am. He was told that a number of arrests had taken place "for the public’s safety" but given few details.
Mr Ahmed said that he felt the operation had been handled well but he warned that if the police failed to find any evidence to incriminate the people concerned then relations between the government and the Muslim community would deteriorate further....
Mr Ahmed said he had spent the morning contacting local authorities, police authorities and Muslim community groups to ensure there was no "backlash" when further information was released about the identity of those arrested. He had already spoken to leaders in Bradford, London and the Midlands....
Note that all his remarks seem to be about backlash and false arrests. None address the problem of terrorism within the Islamic community. He should be promising to work with officials to root jihadist sentiments out of the Muslim community. Instead, he issues vague threats.
But he admitted that it was very difficult to know whether there had been an overreaction, until further details emerged: "I have no information about that whatsoever." He said that if the arrests turned out to have been based on faulty intelligence, as happened after the arrests and shooting at Forest Gate, the community would react badly."It would be very unfortunate. It would further cloud relations between the Government and the Muslim Community and would reinforce the perception people have got that the police are targeting the Muslim community. I sincerely hope that doesn’t happen and we do find there is substance in the allegations."
The Muslim Council of Britain said the police had gone out of their way to ensure that the arrests were low key and had not attracted undue attention....
How very kind of the British to be so sensitive.
Ali Miraj, member of the Conservative’s policy commission on international and national security said he would personally support the police action to ensure public safety. But he said that the mood amongst the Muslim community at present was very antagonistic. He also said current events in the Middle East would only encourage radicalism among disaffected young Muslims."I just hope they find some stuff on these guys. If they don't they will seriously dent confidence with the Muslim community in future. Otherwise people will think they are crying wolf and it's a Forest Gate Mark II. If they find nothing when they raid these people then there will be a real fear the police are deliberately targeting our people.
"The botched terror raid at Forest Gate, East London, in June was regarded as a very disproportionate response. Two hundred police uncovered nothing and the community was unfairly targeted," he said.
Of course, he doesn't know that they uncovered nothing.
Mr Miraj said there was huge anger amongst the grass roots and he was not surprised that some were prepared to take drastic action. Many would not help the police with information about suspicious behaviour, he said. "One Muslim said to me recently outside a mosque: 'What is grassing on our Muslim brothers going to achieve?'"
Hmmm. Good question. Could the answer be, maybe an end to jihad terror attacks?
Fahad Ansari of the Islamic Human Rights Commission said that many Muslims would be sceptical about the police statement. High profile arrests in the past,including Forest Gate had failed to produce any evidence of terrorist activity.“I think you will get cynicism from the community,” he said.
“Over the last few years we have seen many high profile raids like this plastered over the press to terrify the public.
“We have seen it time and time again. It has been hit and miss on too many occasions. It is causing a lot of mass hysteria.”
He suggested that the raids could even have been timed to distract attention from the criticisms of the Government’s stance on the Lebanon crisis.
“There has been so much pressure on the Government, it could be a way of diverting attention away from its policy on the Middle East,” he said.
He accused Tony Blair of being in a “persistent state of denial” on the impact Britain’s foreign policy - from Afghanistan and Iraq to the Middle East - was having on Muslims in Britain.
“He has to realise that there was a relationship between 7/7 and British foreign policy,” he said.
Birmingham Labour MP Khalid Mahmood appealed to local communities to help provide as much extra information as possible to help the police thwart the terrorists.
He said he believed the arrests were based on “fairly good intelligence” and would not prove unfounded and increase tensions fuelled by recent events in Forest Gate.
Ken Livingstone, the Mayor of London, warned against any attempt to blame the Muslim community at large.
“Only a united London can help defeat terrorism, which means that all London’s communities have their part to play,” he said.
“No community in London can or should be targeted or blamed because of the actions of people who are pure criminals.”
In fact, the Muslim community in London can be blamed for not having put in place long ago a comprehensive anti-jihad program. For not expelling jihadists from its ranks. For not making it clear that they support the British governmental structure and don't want ultimately to replace it with Sharia.
Do other groups - Black, Jewish, Hindu, etc - try and blackmail the British authorities over Britain's foreign policy? Do Jews give Britain the third degree over their policies on Israel, or even worse, being part of the EU trio that tried to get Iran to stop its nuke programs? Do Hindus there try to browbeat Whitehall into taking an anti-Pakistani foreign policy? Do Black Christians threaten to take to crime if the Foreign Office doesn't take more seriously the persecution of Black Christians in Sudan, Nigeria, or the repression in Zimbabwe?
While it's one thing for the British government to be Dhimmi, why do they even entertain any concept of a quid-pro-quo vis a vis their foreign policy? Citizens need to be required to behave when they live in any country, and any concessions that they get (stupid as this concept is) should be in terms of benefits to their day to day lives, rather than some imaginary benefit they may be having by say, British troops being removed from Basrah.
"Mr Ahmed said that he felt the operation had been handled well but he warned that if the police failed to find any evidence to incriminate the people concerned then relations between the government and the Muslim community would deteriorate further..."
It is a threat. Against whom, the readers can judge.
"Mr Ahmed said he had spent the morning contacting local authorities, police authorities and Muslim community groups to ensure there was no "backlash" when further information was released about the identity of those arrested. He had already spoken to leaders in Bradford, London and the Midlands"
Note how well connected they are. It is the same in India. And these 'leaders' are 'mullahs' of the mosques in their tongue.
"The botched terror raid at Forest Gate, East London, in June was regarded as a very disproportionate response. Two hundred police uncovered nothing and the community was unfairly targeted," he said.
What community ? The media merely says 'Asians'.
"I just hope they find some stuff on these guys. If they don't they will seriously dent confidence with the Muslim community in future. "
Or else you won't get our votes in the next election.
"Mr Miraj said there was huge anger amongst the grass roots and he was not surprised that some were prepared to take drastic action. Many would not help the police with information about suspicious behaviour, he said. "One Muslim said to me recently outside a mosque: 'What is grassing on our Muslim brothers going to achieve?'"
MI5 of course. And only that. Otherwise this 'grass' would be all over UK.
“Over the last few years we have seen many high profile raids like this plastered over the press to terrify the public."
Yes, the British Government exists to terrify the public. It has done so for centuries. That is the single factor it existed before muslims set foot on British soil. And lived to tell the tale.
"He accused Tony Blair of being in a “persistent state of denial” on the impact Britain’s foreign policy - from Afghanistan and Iraq to the Middle East - was having on Muslims in Britain."
What state of denial ? That the jihad comes naturally to muslims ? Whether in Britain, or the US, or India, or France, or Spain, or Phillipines, or Indonesia ? Or Serbia, Chechenya, or Sudan, or Somalia ? Denial, indeed.
" the community would react badly. "
When has the muslim community NOT reacted badly ... to anything any infidel has or hasn't done.
And when will the British people have had their fill of this crap?
I wouldn't tell these "Muslim leaders" in Britain shit! Talk about dhimmitude! The UK just keeps on swirling down the toilet bowl of history. Somewhere along the line an orchidectomy was performed and, take it from my Mastiff, Mac, once they're gone, they're gone.
Robert wrote,
While the British government kowtows to them, Muslim leaders in the UK are still in complete self-righteous denial about how the ideology that leads to terror attacks incubates within their communities.
Muslim leaders in the UK are not in denial about the ideology that leads to terror attacks. They fully support it and their job is to keep the infidels in the dark, confused and unable to recognize until it's too late the true nature of Islam. They provide moral, economic and material support to Jihadis under the table. They undermine confidence in our government, culture and faiths. That's what Muslim organizations in infidel lands are for.
Time to put them all and their mosques under serious scrutiny, folks.
Infidel Pride:
You make the point well. It should be a lesson that complaints and threats work. All the non-muslim constituencies need to become just as threatening to the politicians.
Why won't the British authorities work with the white community whenever they arrest white criminals? It's a multicultural world, I thought we we were all equal!
Considering the crap that Londoners and others in the UK have had to put up with since 7/7 from this segement of the population, the level of tolerance has been very high. While anti-semitic attacks are on the increase in the UK (in synagogues and other obviously Jewish targets) incidences of attacks against Muslims is very low, no matter how much their community leaders whine about being picked on. They are afforded unprecedented courtesy and consideration from everyone and yet still bite the hand that feeds.
londongirl wrote: "They are afforded unprecedented courtesy and consideration from everyone and yet still bite the hand that feeds."
The Muslims expect unprecedented courtesy and consideration from everyone. They are the "best of people," after all. To give them anything less, is to insult Islam, and then, of course, it is their "right" to throw a public fit.
We need to stop changing Muslim diapers.
Polls have shown that, unlike black militants or AmerIndian militants or the Irish Republican Army, Muslims are energized far more by the international situation (what's happening to Muslims around the world) than by domestic issues. In America, you might get blacks rioting over alleged police brutality or alleged white racism. I don't recall American blacks ever rioting about something that was happening to black people in Africa. The Irish Republican Army was concerned primarily with Northern Ireland, not with people of Irish descent worldwide. Jews do care about Israel, but otherwise they tend to vote as liberals on domestic issues. But Muslims are focused outward, toward what's happening in the world.
And that's a real problem for democracies as they try to fight Islamic terrorism. Democratic societies always try to conciliate their minority populations, meet them halfway, accede to their more reasonable demands. But what the Muslims are demanding is changes to foreign policy and warfighting. That's a new one.
Steven L. wrote: "But Muslims are focused outward, toward what's happening in the world."
I don't think that nails it. The Muslims are instead focused on what happens to the Umma, to which they owe their primary allegiance, if not their sole allegiance.
The concepts of "foreign versus domestic" does not even fit into their thinking. The sovereign state of "Great Britain." for instance, does not even exist except as a place name for a bit of territory that some day they hope to legally annex into the Dar al Islam.
"But he said that the mood amongst the Muslim community at present was very antagonistic. He also said current events in the Middle East would only encourage radicalism among disaffected young Muslims."
-- from the article above
Intolerable attitudes. "Antagonistic" when they are permitted to settle deep within the Land sof the Infidels, extended every benefit that those Infidel taxpayers have decided to offer in their generous welfare state, benefits never inteded to be lavished on those who may be geographically present, but who are hostile to that Infidel nation-state and to those Infidels, and who are perfectly willing to leach the system for all it is worth, but do so only in order to promote themselves, and the umma al-islamiyya, to which sole allegiance is owed.
Everything in the world, save for the most craven appeasement, apparently "encourages radicalism" among the "disaffected." Every failure to obtain for Muslims their rightful place in the sun, their right to dominate and to rule over Infidels, is cause for Muslim "humiliation" and further "disaffection." It's all nonsense, of course; they simply will not accept living in, and having to abide by the laws, customs, rules of Infidels, They will not accept having to sometimes yield to Infidel ways. It's not right. It's against Allah. It cannot be allowed. It "humiliates" us. It makes our youth "disaffected."
Many Infidels have begun to study Islam, and the history of Islamic conquest. For them the Muslim blague is unacceptable. And little by little, more and more Infidels will find the Muslim blague, and then the menace, unacceptable. The Muslims in the Infidel lands do not understand this, fail to grasp this. In a sense, that unawareness is to our advantage.
I suppose that should be the sovereign state of the "United Kingdom," not "Great Britain." But the idea stands. Substitute your favorite nation state name in the sentence. Muslims see nation states simply as parcels of land that can eventually be declared, one by one, as "Islamic states," thereby forever removing them from the world of Dar al Harb. Onward Muslim soldiers!
Well, not exactly 'nothing':
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You see, they were such nice, wholesome lads.
I saw on the news, the head of police saying that this wasn't a clash of civilisations and that this wasn't about one religon being against another. He said that there were just a group of criminals and murderers.
What crap. Before muslims came along, British criminals and murderers, just killed the guy in the alley way, or robbed people in the street, etc, BUT THEY DIDN'T PLAN TO BLOW UP 20 PLANES TO EXPLODE OVER THE OCEAN.
Is that what your ordinary criminal or thug does? No.
When will the police get it?
I also saw some idiot on the Australian television show, Lateline, saying "what is it about western society that makes them want to do this?"
Well I'll tell you what it is about western society that makes them want to do this: we have FREEDOM, to live how we want to live. FREEDOM to reject Islam, and indeed any religion if we choose.
Thank God for the Brits! Every time I see the way they handle people who hate them outright I get a good laugh. Finally a group of people who are all together dumber than my fellow Canadians.
I'm tired of all this crap going on in our world, all because of a culture of hatred that has never been put in its place.
We do have some leaders in this world who appear to have back bone and intelligence, but they are few. I for the first time in my life in Canada feel we have a Prime Minister we can be proud of, and I think John Howard is the other out there. However I do not think George Bush is the guy anymore, he has definitely lost his way. As for Tony Blair, he's a lost cause going in too many directions following the previous dude.
I found it interesting yesterday evening when the mayor of the town these pacifists lived spoke about his town. He stated there were 70,000 people living there, 10,000 of them Muslim, and none of those Muslims will even attempt to have relations or contact with the rest of the citizenry.
Way to go Brits, I hope you enjoy Britainistan you made your bed, and now you have to sleep in it. This is the final ending for a country that for over two hundred years has been fighting with Turks, defending Arabia, and all together for far too long been a backer for the culture of death. Lord Nelson's medal given by the Turks was the beginning, fighting against the Russians on the Turks side was another, now assisting in the dismantling of Kosovo, and buildup of Bosnia, all just desserts for helping these people for far too long.
Niv
When you have a community that is as hypersensitive, arrogant and aggressive as the Muslim one, it is like living next door to an insane man with a machete...You might be on "friendly" terms for years if you avoid interacting too much, but then some misunderstanding arises over blocking the driveway and suddenly you're enemies for life. (Meanwhile, the neighbours question your "understanding of the challenges facing mentally ill people.")
Steven Posted : Democratic societies always try to conciliate their minority populations, meet them halfway, accede to their more reasonable demands. But what the Muslims are demanding is changes to foreign policy and warfighting. That's a new one.
Churchill had something to say on this subject-
"No terms but fight or death were offered. No reparation or apology could be made. . . The red light of retribution played on the bayonets and the lances, and civilization—elsewhere sympathetic, merciful, tolerant, ready to discuss or to argue, eager to avoid violence, to submit to law, to effect a compromise—here advanced with an expression of inexorable sternness, and rejecting all other courses, offered only the arbitration of the sword." Sir Winston Churchill
I hope we stop this kowtowing to Muslims. No other community in the UK, or for that matter any community anywhere in the world, is informed about ongoing police operations.
There has to come time when even the most flexible politician in the UK is unable to bend over to the requirements of Muslims.
The 'backlash' that dreaded 'backlash!'...
And the audacity of these creeps to insist there should NOT BE any repercussions for their Jihad-activities, for terror and Islamic crime, for their arrogance & their insolence...
That backlash must come.
Which society can allow millions of subversives, hateful murderous lunatics who insist on waging violent Jihad against it to continue unhindered?
The west has been too lenient, too forgiving, too stupid for much too long.
INTERNMENT & DEPORTATIONS, NOW!
Snowpea I don't know if your posting is in response to mine, but I do understand your point.
However the Brits did not understand their relatively new neighbours, and were involved naively in a relationship with Islam a long time ago.
I am a Greek, ask a Greek, or Jew, or Serb who have had these people as neighbours long before you've ever heard of them, they'll tell you what it's like.
My criticism is that Britain is the worlds leader for sanitized and politically correct views. This is what has led them to the trouble they are in today.
What the hell is going on in Britain today? How can a country eroding from within by violent forces be the one screaming the loudest for Turkey's admission into the EU?
Like it or not this is a mess made by the host, and the host better have an awakening soon, or he'll be eaten.
Niv
Now where have I heard that before? Oh yes, Qana.
It dawns on me that Muslims are not really very bright at all, how can they be, since Islam does not promote inquisitiveness and creativity, but they are very Chameleon like, and chimp like, monkey see, monkey do.. and quickly learn (like a monkey does) that certain behaviors will gain a reward.
And because of their facility for mimicry, they have adopted a penchant for catchy phrases, such as "disproportionate response" and "human rights" (which in the latter case if property distilled and analyzed means Islamic rights, substituting the word Islam for human).
The Islamic world, is full of local Human Rights organizations, but those organizations are not dedicted to Human rights, but only the Allah given prerogative of Islam, non Muslims are not human thus don't qualify for Human Rights.
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low.
--- God’s commandment in Koran 9:29
They are surely disbelievers who blaspheme and say: ‘God is one of three in the Trinity for there is no Ilah (God) except One, Allah. If they desist not from saying this (blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall them—the disbelievers will suffer a painful doom.
--- God’s commandment in Koran 5:73
You see many of them allying themselves with the unbelieving infidels. Vile indeed are their souls. Allah’s wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.
--- God’s commandment in Koran 5:80
610 * 623 * 732* 1066* 1215 * 1453 * 1492 * 1683 * 1928 * 1938 * 1948 * 1996 * 2001
This is the worthless crap they recite in their heads five times a day, and all Friday afternoon every Friday, and then some. That being so, are relations between any Western government and Moslems not fully deteriorated from the very outset? Duh.
Islam is progressive.
--- Tony Blair
Progressing towards what, Tony?
Can someone explain to me why the Poms fought WW2 again???
Was it actually the same people who had an empire upon which the 'sun never set'??
Then again - the Poms (not the Scots; Welsh; Irish) were happy to let the Romans walk in and tell them what to do, until the Romans pissed off Queen Boadicea.
It will be the same in this case with the English - until their leaders lifestyles are eroded by Islam nothing, absolutley nothing will happen. And just like Boadicea's revolt, it was too little too late, and after they had allowed the enemy into their mist.
Who knows what will happen in Scotland and Ireland. Maybe these guys have some 'fire' left in their belly. As while they are part of the British Isles, the English will continue to allow the erosion of their future freedom also.
One of those arrested is a White 20 year old son of a former Conservative Election Agent in Westminster. Hardly the profile for a Muslim bomber. He converted to Islam 6-12 months ago and married a Muslim.
Does this suggest contact with this religion can de-rail even 'normal' people; or just that mentally-disturbed gravitate towards absolution for moral stigma for murderous conspiracy ?
3rdtimelucky (an Australian?) wrote:
"Then again - the Poms (not the Scots; Welsh; Irish) were happy to let the Romans walk in and tell them what to do, until the Romans pissed off Queen Boadicea"
These "Poms" were actually Britons, whose descendants today are the Welsh. And the history of Britain after the Roman Conquest was hardly one of surrender, as you imply. Ever heard of Caractacus? And the English didn't arrive on the scene until four hundred years later.
"Muslim community leaders were contacted by the police and Government officials early this morning as the first statements were released to the press."
Can anyone explain why in the pictures of the crowds at Heathrow I saw Black people, Chinese people and White people, I saw hardly any South Asian or Arab face. Why was that?
Anyone who knows the transport system in Britian knows that you can't move for Pakistanis and other exotic creatures, yet they were definitely noticeable by their absence.
Remember 7/7. The low Muslim death toll, any other day and one quarter of the dead would have been Muslims.
There should really be something more said about that.
They are being tipped off.
Since when has being arrested for possession of and making child porn been considered 'nothing'? Ali Miraj clearly needs his hard drive checking out.
Niv—My comment wasn't directed at you particularly, but you're right, the British, besides being dangerously ignorant about whom they let in as neighbours, seem to have gone crazy as well. Perhaps it's only temporary. (From a Canadian of English background.)
Niv:
You are absolutely correct about your statement concerning the problem in the UK. The basic issue is very simple. The "group" in question in the UK has been allowed to assimalate into the community and they "act" very submissive and happy "in the beginning". They are taught to fake "getting along" with the communities they live in until the time comes where they can "take over". Since they teach hatred and violence in their houses of worship, that is the only thing that can contain them. It is a sad fact, but the only thing that will correct the problem in the UK is to address the problem "head on". The British authorities have a real mess on their hands. They better figure out what to do, or the masses in the UK will have another solution (and that won't be a pretty one).
Patriot Act