Riehl World View

They oughta sail up alongside and plaster the Greenpeace boats with big signs and stickers, with permanent adhesive.. Bwahahahaha well done!

Monkton strikes back

I agree with TransitionEggman. All the thoughts expressed in the article are nice, but they are all looking only at technology. We need a major institutional and cultural shift to less energy and resource use, not merely investing in green options. The financial crisis is an excellent time for change - people are buying fewer new cars, and in general less tat that they don't need, all of which is good for the environment. We need to rebuild the economy so that it's not dependent on people buying resource-rich luxury items. We need to take this opportunity to push for infrastructure and institutions which don't require people to use cars at all - rather than push for 'green cars' (don't believe there's such a thing).

"Ship of Lies" is both true and appropriate -- but better still would have been "Ship of Hate". The essence of the environmental movement is a hatred of mankind and of all that man's survival requires.

These haters don't wish to "save the environment" -- they merely wish to doom man to death and desolation. May they all rot in hell.

"saving the souls of men (by preaching the Word of God and the Good News of Salvation through faith in Jesus Christ)" = eternal life and preservation of humankind
Um... please, please, please do some reading besides the Bible. (or heck try to really really read the bible, not just the study guide highlighted sections)
Which Word of god? Kill entire populations? Keep slaves? Condone rape? Smash infants head against stones? Don't mix fabrics? Don't pick up sticks on a Sunday? No graven images on pain of death (if so a lot of artists would be put to death)
Salvation through faith in Jesus-- If Jesus even existed, (debatable, there were lots of people running around at the time claiming to be christ but no documentation of one named Jesus of Nazareth until about 50 years later) why should we think that "salvation" would come through faith in him rather than one of the thousands of other holy rollers throughout history. Because the absurdly contradictory bible tells us so? By that logic, maybe the Heavens Gate people were right and the rest of us were wrong, maybe we should be having faith in extraterrestrials in comets. Or crystals. Or Zeus. What if Zeus is really the real god and he's truly pissed now that he's been ignored for thousands of years and that's why we have earthquakes, wars, etc.
"Eternal life and preservation of humankind." First of all, it has always been in the power of the omnipotent god to give us all eternal life from the beginning, right? So doesn't it seem cruel to (based on no evidence) ask us to believe in him/her/it based on "faith" and then condemn some of us to an eternal life of torment and the rest to an eternal life of delight. If he/she/it loves us so much (a la "Jesus loves me, this I know") why not save us all? Instead millions of good Moslems, Jews, etc. get the fire and brimstone. That's what the good old good book says even if the megachurches don't preach it anymore. Of course as an atheist, I find heaven as ridiculous as hell but neither notion holds up to much ethical or scientific scrutiny. And while we're at it, a "soul" is useful as an intellectual construct but the idea that we have some sort of extratemporal essence is simply magical thinking.

And one more note as I'm on a bit of a roll. It makes me want to scream when people talk about Jesus being family friendly. This is the guy who told you to leave your family, give up your possessions (all of your possessions including the SUV) and follow him. How many "christians" are there who actually leave their families and give up their possessions? Judging by the number of cars I see in church parking lots with families jumping out, not many. Does this actually go through christians minds as they attach fish stickers to the family car?

You seem to have a healthy skepticism. Please apply it to your religious beliefs and see what happens. If you can read Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, Barker, Russell et. al and watch the full web series of Mr. Deity, and still have "faith" it will be impressive, but somehow I doubt anyone with a skeptical bent of mind and the intellectual acumen to honestly engage with well-argued atheism can do so and still continue to believe in the fairy tales. Best of luck to you.

Hi Dave P...
Bigotry? I'm asking the person to use reason and apply it to his/her beliefs. I'm sure this person could be the nicest person in the world but postulating that a sky god will save us all is a bit out there, especially when backed with no proof. Also, all of the references to genocide, rape, infanticide, etc. are in the good book that many call inerrant.

Fundamentalist... huh? So what is a non-fundamentalist atheist, someone who doesn't believe in god only on Tuesdays and Thursdays? Not too clear what that means. Either you believe in supernatural creatures or you don't. And remember, most of us are "atheist" about most gods. Unless you believe in Thor, you're an atheist when it comes to Thor. Not only that, the way most of us live our lives is completely blasphemous to some religion.

Show me some proof! Any proof whatsoever for this religious thinking and I'll listen... nope, not much out there is there? Got to rely on "faith." Any proof and I will gladly believe in any of these sky gods, (and would be foolish not to) till then I will remain an atheist. Or even (ooohhhh!) a fundamentalist atheist!

Evangelical... huh? Sorry, guess I've got to catch up with the opposition research. Guess it seems funny to call atheists fundamentalists right? Nice bit of shut down irony. Whew! That was a rough one. So lets see, I saw a person combining religion mysticism with skepticism of environmental thinking and thought I'd jump in, ultimately if he/she chooses to stay blinkered, its a free country, but if he/she (or even you!) rises to the challenge, who knows? If not, no problem here. I'll move on, no harm no foul. Not like I'm condemning him to hell or anything. (which yes, even if 2009 christians, moslems, etc. routinely say about atheists)

And just a tip big guy, if you're going to call someone ignorant... try spelling the word correctly.

Off to fully live the only life I've got and jump off these intertubes!

Peace (and reason while we're at it)

Irrlicht

I care little whether someone believes there is/isn't(a) god.
It matters more to me, pragmatically speaking, that Seekeronos is suggesting actual tangible solutions be considered. He is obviously free to, and likely does, 'pray' for solutions as well.
And if that was his only approach, then I might take issue - but it obviously isn't.
I'm a heck of a lot more sympathetic to the atheist argument than most folks here, but I'm also frustrated by a large understanding in what 'faith' is when they argue against it (e.g. 'show me some proof').
Having said that, I liked this:
"Unless you believe in Thor, you're an atheist when it comes to Thor."
Thinking that one through might make 'believers' more sympathetic to the atheists...

OK.. couldn't resist, had to check back (curse you addictive internet!)
Agree Mike that Seekreonos had other solutions which is why I was even trying to engage in the debate. To me, skepticism is healthy and it puzzles me to see it used in one arena and ignored in another. And of course he/she is free to pray. Would rather see him/her actually do things but it is his/her right to pray or do anything else with his time that doesn't harm others.
In the same vein, I do understand what people mean when they talk about faith. The problem is, in pretty much no other human endeavor to we accept things without evidence. Tell the most faithful fundamentalist that their kid has had a drug overdose and to accept your saying so on faith without any proof he'll first look at you like you're nuts and then seek to confirm or deny the story. Yet somehow we suspend this very natural desire for proof in this one area. Proof would change a lot. Until then, there are literally thousands of religions out there, all preaching faith. Why choose one over another? For most people, they believe what their parents believed in part because the parents were educating them about god before they could even grasp concepts like democracy or the economy. As an atheist, I'm simply not impressed by faith and often find it to be a fall-back once rationalism fails to support the religion. Seldom do christians start the argument with faith... they first use rational and logical arguments...
One more thing about faith... if faith is all that is needed, why are christians so excited when they think they see Mary in a piece of toast? Like the rest of us, deep down they want proof. Someone truly faithful would not want or need such proof.
I've only met one person who I consider to be truly faithful. When my aunt's husband and son died in the same year, she was really joyful that they were "with God." She really believed it in a non-abstract way and talked about what they were doing up in heaven... but most people grieve deeply when someone dies because (I believe) they know deep down that death is the end.... which of course is what makes life all the more precious!

"...there are literally thousands of religions out there, all preaching faith. Why choose one over another?"
Well, I'm pretty certain that had Seekeronos been born in Kandahar, he likely would have 'chosen' a different faith.
And I agree that those who proclaim faith AND offer proof (Mary in toast, or Dinesh D'Souza's "Life After Death: The Evidence) are just setting themselves up.
But again, I feel both the benefits and detriments of religious faith are not really illuminated when arguing over 'proof'. But 'atheism' is becoming (ironically) as dogmatic as much of what it argues against. I don't call myself an atheist only because I feel like I'd just be joining some other 'belief system'. And Richard Dawkins is a pompous ass. I prefer Sam Harris - though even he has a little bait&switch when he promotes spiritual meditation, etc.

And a ship of fools too.